京 An illusion? What are you hiding? (cEDH-$T4KS) 京

Commander / EDH Kiyomei

SCORE: 286 | 178 COMMENTS | 50425 VIEWS | IN 126 FOLDERS


Was I made from a broken mold? —Jan. 19, 2019

I am currently Looking for a viable cut to add,

Prime Speaker Vannifar :

Shoutout @pato_mtg ;

So Regarding Prime Speaker Vannifar, This basically is Birthing Pod on a stick but with no real cost (+ one mana more expensive due to the )... Being a creature does indeed make it far easier for us to tutor and cast under all our hate.

the sole difference between Birthing Pod and Vannifar is that Pod is live the turn it hits so technically it provides more tempo value as you can instantly ("at sorcery speed") pod Derevi into Hokori for example without giving your opponents a turn to think as it telegraphs what you are going to do very bluntly! Yet having two cards that do kinda the same thing isn't all too bad either because it creates consistency like fauna shaman and survival of the fittest do at the moment!

I'de say the creature version is harder to deal with for most of the CEDH decks as they lack hard removal on creatures more than interaction towards artifacts and enchantments nowadays apart from like swords and paths or plain counterspells...

so I want to test this one out in the next few Weeks/Months (Japanese foil has arrived)

( / Also has a nice body compared to most creatures and isn't killed by Elesh or bolt that easily! )

Looking at cuts :

  • Aura Shards (Slow but good for grindy games)

  • Trygon Predator (Slow but good for grindy games) (Leaning more towards this one because it is very conditional compared to aura shards)

  • Ulvenwald Tracker (Has been lackluster for most of the time yet still can be annoying for opponents when it does its job from time to time)

  • Suggestions are welcome

Kiyomei says... #1

With the New Tests/Retests/Sideboard-Swaps/additions, I can already safely say that Priest of Titania is going to be replaced by Lavinia, Azorius Renegade as soon as I get my hands on one!...

I was Able to win the last FNM of the year with her in a F4A "end of the year" battle... (20 ish people)

(Playmat + boosters (price support) = I gave them to the "newer" players! Not because I care but because I came for First Place or to learn more of my mistakes as to why I didn't get there and how to improve myself!!!.)

Present commanders on my tables;


(Copperhorn Scout Stasis lock is what got me too far ahead even after scout got removed I was able to keep it alive for so long!)


(Made everyone draw due to 2 oppressive locks with humility and specific storm hate, but reminder!!! ---> our pod consisted of all the players that won their last pods so it resulted in everyone getting dragged down a bit in score! everyone becomes simultaneously second... Too Many Resets and Rebuilds + slow play storm player!)


(Managed to live a lot longer thanks to the other Hokori while a blood moon was out and got ignored for a short while! Discard deck had a "the rack" kind of playstyle and hurt the other players a lot as well... ended up 1v1 with Derevi and we all know how broken that is if left unchecked!)


Note:

Every Single card that was added recently saw play or got in my hand at some point and regarding most useless (even though explosive rarely) titania is redundant to what this deck tries to do, in this meta many two drops needing to be Stax is far more important and more likely to not lose you games!

Forsaken City + Stasis : It is so easy to set up... (Idea was taken from the Black vise vintage deck)

December 29, 2018 12:34 a.m.

pato_mtg says... #2

Hey, man! Love this build! I am in the process of building pretty much the same deck and, as you, I am very excited about Lavinia! But I Was wondering two things:

1) What do you think of the new simic legend, ? I think it is an immediate include in this deck,as a creature which is much easier to tutor for and has synergy with Copperhorn??? What's not to like?!?! But maybe I am a noob and I am missing something, so I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

2) Have you ever felt like you need some counterspells in your list? I ask this because it is mindblowing to me to have blue and not have any :P again, this might be a noob question.

Anyway, thanks in advance and happy new year!

January 4, 2019 1:20 p.m.

pato_mtg says... #3

Sorry for the double post, I meant Prime Speaker Vannifar regarding the simic legend, but I did something wrong and can't edit the comment :/

January 4, 2019 1:21 p.m.

Kiyomei says... #4

Prime Speaker Vannifar :

@pato_mtg ; Hey There! Regarding Prime Speaker Vannifar, This basically is Birthing Pod on a stick but with no cost (+ one mana more expensive due to the )... Being a creature does indeed make it far easier for us to tutor as you mentioned.

the sole difference is birthing pod is live the turn it hits so technically it provides more tempo value as you can instantly ("at sorcery speed") pod Derevi into Hokori for example without giving your opponents a turn to think as it telegraphs what you are going to do very bluntly! Yet having two cards that do kinda the same thing isn't all too bad either because it creates consistency like fauna shaman and survival of the fittest do at the moment!

I'de say the creature version is harder to deal with for most of the CEDH decks as they lack hard removal on creatures more than interaction towards artifacts and enchantments nowadays apart from like swords and paths or plain counterspells...

I'll definitely be testing this one out in the next few weeks (Proxy) + ( if I find a reasonable cut for my meta personally)

( / Also has a nice body compared to most creatures and isn't killed by Elesh or bolt! )


Counterspells :

I do have a few Counterspells in my sideboard (it's in the description). But yes currently I am running a counterless Stax deck due to the fact that under a lot of pressure of sphere effects these also become impossible to cast more often which was the case for me anyway! Having cards like Spell Pierce, Arcane Denial, Negate ,Nature's Claim , Swords to Plowshares and such won't hurt this deck at all and is perfectly viable if you like to run a tad more interaction depending on your meta, but it is not 100% necessary as this deck can operate fine without them! Even after suffering from a setback that got through somehow, As mentioned in the description this deck scales with the power level of your Pod... Meaning A rule of low effect can shut down all three of your opponents until they find answers whereas in a more casual pod this might do nothing and sheer counters are needed for rather "low end under the radar stuff".


Spoilers :

(Will post a comment as soon as I see one with potential and have gone over it with a few others or if people find them in the Spoilers before I do xD )

Interesting things so far:

Biomancer's Familiar (Might be of use if you run more value engines Like Yisan and such but I currently find it a bit too specific as we don't run as many targets that can abuse - Activation Costs... Perhaps WizzardBall might like this more.

January 5, 2019 12:25 a.m.

pato_mtg says... #5

@Kiyomei thanks for such a detailed response, I really appreciate it! I look forward to your findings regarding Prime Speaker Vannifar, I think it is a really interesting addition and hopefully it does well, I'll keep an eye on your primer for sure!

And regarding counterspells, that is really interesting! I guess I'll have to finish building the deck and give a try with my playgroups and decide if I can manage without any counterspells or if I have to make room for a couple or so, thanks again for the time you spent with the response!

January 5, 2019 2:32 p.m.

Kiyomei says... #6

@pato_mtg From one Derevi player to another with pleasure! Please do keep in touch with your findings as well as my opinion is never absolute! All I can give you is my personal experience because I have been spam playing this deck in a few different meta (Since its release) and I am still able to hold down every Cedh deck (from fully tuned to experiments) out there under certain locks or with certain "hate" cards, which for me is most crucial... As soon as there is a problem deck or recurring strategy in your meta it should be solvable by running more of the same kind of hate or running different hate while not jamming the deck full with redundancy.

Stax is trial and error and will always be that way with the new stuff people find and break during new releases!

January 5, 2019 7:42 p.m.

Rats1la says... #7

Glad to see someone who also really enjoys playing derevi and willing to spread the art of stax across this platform. Your deck is very inspiring and refreshing, and with all the updates you had I'm able to further improve my own derevi deck. But recently, I've encountered situations where my own deck is unable to take the stage. There're these two players in my play group, one plays prossh and the other one plays the Ur-dragon. When comparing the power level between everyone's deck to those their decks, the different is basically in-measurable. But as soon as I pull out my superstar (In this case, derevi), they will immediately put me on the watch list without considering the fact that they've won for almost every games we've played, especially the prossh player. Nearly all boardwipes were used against me, having to rebuild my board nearly every single turn. The real question is, how much stax is enough? And just what can I do to prevent them from trampling my board again? How should I make it less "hateful"?

p.s. Will Prime Speaker Vannifar be good in derevi?

January 10, 2019 3:42 a.m.

Kiyomei says... #8

@Rats1la, Hey there! I've discussed Prime Speaker Vannifar a few comments back!

++ So you are facing these two decks :

. ("Hermit Druid combo + Laboratory Maniac") ,

. ("Hermit Druid + Necrotic Ooze") ,

. ("Insta gib Moltensteel Dragon+Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon") ,

. ("Casual dragon tribal")

. ("Reanimator")

and probably some more janky ways... But I've played against versions that spam out Mana dorks as well for a quick Win with either the "Insta-Gib" or "Hermit" win conditions as well as reanimator. Every version of this deck is comparably slow to the higher end CEDH decks out there. While it may surprise very very rarely with a super early victory they do both have access to Fire Covenant , Toxic Deluge , Red Elemental Blast , Pyroblast , Negate and other counterspells as well as Abrupt Decay and can be packed with artifact and enchantment removal...


  • Prossh, Skyraider of Kher ; This deck is mainly focused on Food Chain while General tazri does it way better and faster this deck also plays an assortment of mana dorks to try speed up the process and also has access to the same wipes and control as mentioned above except it doesn't have ... Nothing extra special here though.

Conclusion: Both decks suffer from an early sphere and orb effect Like any other CEDH deck, but these suffer a tad harder as they still need to amass a certain amount of mana to blow out their win conditions compared to the fast decks that run under 2 - 3 mana (like a hermit/hulk deck).

Depending on your meta: if it's more casual The likes of Gaddock Teeg stop most of the late game wipes and the common sphere effects will delay the faster ones so you can aggressively tap their mana under orb effects... If none of the above if accessible you either kept a bad hand and didn't really have a gameplan with your opening hand or they raced out the right things at the right time which happens...

(If both are actively just focusing you because they think it's fun let them collude! Just find Cards that utterly Wreck what they are trying to do and actively search for those in games!!!)

Sanctum Prelate on also works wonders in this matchup as it stops food chain as well as the faster wipes like deluge and covenant...

Also prioritizing hate/Stax that is unaffected during a creature board wipe will genuinely result in a positive outcome for you. While not always Obvious at first some cards just also stop what they want to do in the future like recently I pulled a turn 1 Aven Mindcensor in response to end step fetching shenanigans while hitting a tutor at the same time from someone else... (Good Scoop!)... Grave hate might work for reanimator versions and Rule of law effects stops Prossh from going infinite. Linvala also does wonders if they are on a lot of dorks... Just got to Mulligan far more aggressively... (Down to 4 is possible but 5 is the recommended low!)

(If you come across problem cards feel free to leave them here and we will try and find answers for you!)

January 10, 2019 1:16 p.m.

Kiyomei says... #9

( Running counterspells yourself also stops some of them if they do happen to bypass your stax like Negate , Spell Pierce etc anything at Mana or less that isn't too color intensive either because double blue is not always available at the early stages of the game!)

January 10, 2019 3:08 p.m. Edited.

Rats1la says... #10

@Kiyomei, thanks for all the advise above. There're still some extras that I need to specify:

  1. It's The ur-dragon from edh 2017 precon (apologies for not specifying the card) and just like the comment above, he ramps, but not as hard as the prossh player. But he will eventually end up having tons of dragons on board and smack us all down.

  2. The prossh player, doesn't have food chain. Always win on the occasion of having tons of tokens and either smack us with them (Hit/Run or beast master ascension) or sac outlet and drain all/one (usually me) of us with mtg zulaport cutthroat or blood artist which no one will ever take attention of them.

  3. By the time when those 2 players and I have all the pieces ready, everyone (most of the time, will be a 6 way game) will just start taking me down. And by next turn, they will all just die because there weren't any counterspells or stax materials on the board to shutdown prossh. The best part is they will literately call out anyone who plays blue or had a counterspell and start talking about how it should've been used against prossh.

I've always been targeting the prossh player every start of the game. If I kill one of his stuffs, he will blame me, and I'll either get boardwiped or die to 450 on hit. If I don't, we all die together except the prossh player. Ever been so frustrated by the fact that we all knew who's going to win but no one is willing to take the action or even build alliance in order to just kick prossh out of the game? That's me for like the past 50 games....
I know, this isn't about the ur-dragon. But prossh, is my greatest fear. (I recently had a game where the prossh player helps the ur-drag player so he can win, end up being just the two. Guess what? prossh won, because he lied :P)

There really isn't any chance for me to political-talk-out-of them because derevi gives no advantages to anyone and they prefer ending the game fast so they can move on to another one.

January 10, 2019 4:49 p.m.

Kiyomei says... #11

Hey Rats1la, I'm afraid I can not help you with precons and low tier commander builds... Derevi Stax is a deck that scales with the power level of your pod as is known for the STAX Build sadly. Meaning you would want to have an entirely different build than this to combat what you are facing.

(Also I don't ever play in pods larger than 4 as that is no longer the way commander is meant to be played! I do a lot of tournaments, fnm, and online pods so I generally am not familiar with large casual group play!)

So I can help you with cards that stop certain interactions I guess... But First and foremost check out the Derevi SideBoard I made, Perhaps you can find Cards of your liking that will interact with your playgroup!


京 An illusion? (SideBoard) 京

Commander / EDH* Kiyomei

SCORE: 1 | 27 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


And The tier list which has many different Versions I deem worthy of checking out! :


京 The Cedh Derevi tier list collection 京

Commander / EDH Kiyomei

SCORE: 5 | 2 COMMENTS | 144 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


I myself also don't get political or emotional about people working together as that is not part of our gameplan... Ours is of a hard lock victory and no one is going to want to work with you ever and because of this, we run a tight curve that leaves no breathing room for fast CEDH decks. The longer this deck does not lose the more inevitability there is to present a hard lock victory by piecing together parts of the puzzle. (These interactions include board states where one can attack safely for example with a Winter Orb out and some sphere effects like Sphere of Resistance + Thalia, Guardian of Thraben + Trinisphere so they can't even cast spells that cost 0 mana while you aggressively keep tapping their lands... This is just one tiny example but this deck is packed with answers to the Highest end CEDH Decks and while the ability to lock down people is consistent the board state is and should never be the same!)

January 11, 2019 11:05 a.m.