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Flash Discussion

enpc on Isochron scepter and dramatic reversal …

1 week ago

Got beaten to the comment. The joys of not being in NA :P

jaymc1130: While I agree that that combos like Flash + Protean Hulk are not compact in terms of card slots, they are compact in terms of deployment. And while they can consume up to 5 cards (Protean Hulk, Flash, Nomads en-Kor, Cephalid Illusionist, Thassa's Oracle), they only need 2 mana to work. So the trade-off is slots vs compact deploying of said combo.

Infinite mana combos on the other hand are a lot harder to judge from a "number of cards" point of view. While yes, you do need mana rocks to make Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter work, your deck is already running mana rocks/dorks (and will be optimised for this knid of ramp). It's kind of like saying that Palinchron + Deadeye Navigator needs at least 3 lands to work, making it a 5 card combo. While that's technically true, the lands are a given under most circumstances as they're already in the deck. And with the Dramatic Scepter combo, you're not going to prioritise running a bunch of land ramp as that would be counter intuitive. You're going to lean more heavily into rocks/dorks, so each of those slots is pulling double duty. And while you require more of a boardstate (which is the trade-off comapred to things like Flash), your combo only takes up 2 card slots.

It's also worth mentioning that infinite mana does not equal winning the game, however with a commander like Thrasios, Triton Hero or Kenrith, the Returned King, once you have infinite mana, you also have access to your whole deck. And again, you can run cards which are dedicated win conditions, or you cna leverage other cards which do double duty (like Swan Song) to create a win condition.

Monomanamaniac: I would absolutely agree that Dramatic Scepter is a compact combo (I don't think I said otherwise). It's not as compact as some combos (see jaymc1130's example of Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation) however the beauty of this, and most infinite mana combos, is that they act as a stepping stone to your next combo, but often times give you the best amount of redundancy for the least input. Because you can break your combo down into two parts 1) make mana, 2) spend mana, you can easily slot in replacements for each part without requiring ehter mana intensive or much clunkier solutions. For example, Bloom Tender, Faeburrow Elder, Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura can be used together to generate infinite mana. But either creature works with either enchantment, providing reduncancy. Oracle + Consultation on the other hand iether works with Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries however the former needs an additional card draw and the latter is much more mana intensive.

enpc on Isochron scepter and dramatic reversal …

1 week ago

SteelSentry: I wouldn't really call Protean Hulk a one card combo. You need to play hulk and then have a way to kill it. The reason that TaN pulled so much ire for so long was that all you needed was TaN. Please don't get me wrong, protean hulk is gross and we are all mcuh better off for Flash's banning, but I would say that Flash Hulk fits more into the "comapct combo" category that dramatic scepter does rather than the "one card combo" that TaN is.

SteelSentry on Isochron scepter and dramatic reversal …

1 week ago

Protean Hulk got worse with the banning of Flash, but it's still a fine "one card combo" in non cEDH environments. One of the go tos of you are in at least Bant is to tutor up Cephalid Illusionist, Nomads en-Kor and Thassa's Oracle, targeting the fish with your nomads ~30 times in response to the Oracle trigger, where nothing short of a Stifle can stop you from winning on the spot.

Peoni on Nekusar EDH Cards for Everyone

1 week ago

kei1 So Niv-Mizzet, Parun is good because it is pretty much guaranteed to resolve on cast, rewards you whenever your opponents do things, and has a slightly better stat line. It is, however pretty mana intensive in requiring 3 blue and 3 red and it also requires some form of catalyst to access its card draw. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is a little easier to cast with 2 of its cost being colorless, and he doesn't need a catalyst to access his draw because it's a tap ability. It is only 1 card you get to draw from him though on his own, and his stats are slightly weaker. Overall I'd say Parun is probably stronger but there's nothing wrong with running both. Just improves your odds of finding one of your combo pieces.

As far as Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries go, self-mill is actually one of the most powerful as most competitive win cons in EDH. It's extremely common for high tier cEDH decks to rely on cards like Thassa's Oracle as their primary win condition. Before Flash got banned, Flash Hulk decks were one of the strongest and most oppressive archetypes in the format because all you needed were flash and hulk in hand with the right cards in your deck and you could mill your entire library at instant speed and win with Laboratory Maniac. There are a lot of ways to mill your whole deck out there. If you wanted to do it in this one just take your Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo and any X draw spell like Prosperity or Blue Sun's Zenith and there you go. Library gone. Alternatively, you could use targeted X draw like Blue Sun's Zenith to just mill an opponent to death. Primarily with your Isochron you're going to be wanting Dramatic Reversal imprinted on it. That's why Muddle the Mixture is a good transmutation here. :^)

You're going to want to keep your mana rocks cheap and efficient. Additionally you want to be ramping hard and fast, so 3+ cost rocks aren't really ideal for a deck that's wanting to be more than casual. Spend your first few turns ramping as much as possible, then by turn 4-5 (or even 3 if you ramp fast enough) you want to be making your plays. For example, let's say you have potentially 5 mana turn 3. Would you rather cast Nekusar with a Force of Will/Force of Negation ready or a Gilded Lotus? You don't want to be dropping rocks when you could be making plays. Plus expensive rocks like Gilded Lotus are going to be big removal targets. If you cast it and it gets blown up, you're gonna be set back quite a ways.

As for Cowardice you're mainly just going to want to protect stuff like Nekusar with your counters and as was mentioned before Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves. It's more important to just keep him on the field. And if it's the commander tax you're worried about consider this: how much mana are you going to be spending over the course of the game recasting Nekusar from your hand every time someone targets him with anything at all? Just make sure that when you cast him from your command zone you have the ability to make him stick on the field.

Finally with bounce keep in mind that sure you can bounce a card and then potentially wheel it out of their hand into the graveyard, but removal does exactly that anyway without the extra step or the risk of them being able to cast it again before you wheel. Keeping some bounce in isn't a bad idea like you said to potentially deal with stuff that's indestructible, but I would advise you focus on removal first and foremost and run bounce as a secondary thing. Don't take out Cyclonic Rift though. That card is almost an auto include (there are no actual auto includes, but this one is pretty close) for any deck running blue. Very good card. Plus if you took out some of your bounce you could run some cards more suited to your general strategy, like Notion Thief! Seriously though wheeling out your opponents and then flashing in a Notion Thief so they get 6 less cards than you is just dirty.

Hope this helps! Anymore questions just let me know. Always happy to help. :^)

Happymaster19 on The Void (Unrestricted Enchantment Prison)

4 weeks ago

Just played this on untap.in against what I assume was a Flash/Protean Hulk deck. Just a quick best of one but the deck apparently worked well enough.

Lead on both Leylines and the opponent did a couple EoT Ancestral Recalls into Merchant Scroll and eventually Flash. Managed to have a Force of Negation for a Summoner's Pact and my opponent conceded.

SynergyBuild on Chulane Midrange

1 month ago

Galvanic Alchemist I actually do think would work with the deck a lot, though Familiar is too far, and just 3 colors means Bloom Tender and Faeburrow Elder just don't do it. So that's fair.

I'd look into other variants of a hate-bears style deck. Thalia, Heretic Cathar and friends can be high-value.

I may test more out post-Flash-ban!

SynergyBuild on Oko in cEDH settings

1 month ago

Megalomania I mean, to be fair I wouldn't say my accomplishments in 60 card constructed ever came over to cEDH, they are suuper different.

I have went up against a person that never stepped into a GP, or even played modern that could wipe the floor with my on knowledge of cards, who literally knew every single card in the game and every rule (this was around Dominaria, I haven't seen them since, they came from out of town to an FNM, and were huge into cEDH, Canadian Highlander, and limited). They had some weird brain thing idk enough about to comment on, but they were talented AF.

Basically, I am a mediocre deckbuilder, who relies on my mathematical knowledge and mild coding skills to make computers do the work for me, and test things much better than I can, and I think I'm a good player. My accomplishments in other formats doesn't mean much, which I think is true of jaymc1130 too. I don't think he tried to make it seem (at least in this conversation) that because of his and his playgroup's previous accomplishments that makes him better at cEDH. He's been playing about triple the time I've been playing, and yet we have a fine discussion in pms on this xD

I do think that the Inception package is a little weak in the current metagame, Gitrog, Kess, Kenrith, Najeela, etc. all are pretty multi-ended, so a single Extract won't often beat them, but Idk what deck you were talking about, so I won't comment much further.

In all honesty, I think jaymc1130 has a bit of a different metagame and mindset going into the format, so may see things in a way that I or you may not see as true or as obviously. I so far have understood everything he's said despite that, and even been attempting to inform myself on those niche metagames, because it shows how metas adapt much faster than the overall metagame, which can take time.

While perhaps not the best example, Leptys's Gitrog Monster deck (Gitrog Dredge Combo [Primer]) is one of the most famously good, stock versions, and 3 weeks ago was updated to include a second eldrazi, which helps stop the "Inception Package" that jaymc1130 had previously had a metagame using. That is why their version of Gitrog already ran two eldrazi shufflers, which happened to predict the future of Leptys's brew about two years prior. It just focuses on the specifics of the format, and attempts to fix them all at once. While often making their decks worse in a total (why I think his playgroup doesn't favor Rhystic Study, and does favor Oko, Thief of Crowns) vacuum, assuming their deck was going against the average cEDH field, I do believe that he has an interesting perspective on how the metagame could change.

Personally, I'd view any inbred metagame (not an insult, I think any group of less than 12 people is bound to be inbred, where their meta shifts farther from the general metagame, and moves toward more interesting strategies that battle against eachother, and are worse in a vacuum) as a petri dish. It is a strong way to see how things could naturally grow, but much faster than waiting for real metagames to adjust.

jaymc1130 isn't wrong when he says that Oko is better than Rhystic Study for his metagame, but he could be wrong when he says it's better in your metagame, as it's never going to be that simple. That's why DeinoStinkus wasn't wrong when he assumed Rhystic Study was a better play (or at least he'd rather drop it than oko), I personally have found it is an incredibly valuable card in the general metagames of MTG in online forms, where people often do not pay for it, and as such it gives vast amounts of general value.

If his metagame has adjusted to it's play-patterns, it would make it much worse overall as a card, though still perhaps being useful. If they aren't adjusted to Oko, Thief of Crowns as well as my metagame, as well as dingusdingo probably has, based on his statements, perhaps you too.

Honestly, I think jaymc1130 made some comments to me, that were meant to show credibility, and not superiority, and some misinterpretations of that set a bad mood. I personally have no issues with jaymc1130, I think he has a really cool personality (wanna be frands?), is a wonderful deckbuilder, and has a sweet, unique perspective on the format, as well as being good in a more generalized metagame too.

I think dingusdingo is an amazing brewer and honestly a pretty civil person too, but got the wrong idea from that initial misunderstanding that some reading what mine and jay's discussion could have gotten, and for that I will take some blame, for not properly explaining it when things got heated. Tbh, I agree with some of the other points, like the lab maniacs and other members of the community being seen as gurus when they aren't, and are just players like the rest of us.

Megalomania, while I don't know you as well, I love the cEDH brews I see on your front page, and have to apologize for Flash's ban on that front! I think you also misunderstood out discussion, and it was easily misunderstandable, so that's not on you either.

Tl;dr: I think a misunderstanding of credentials being elitism caused bit of drama, when it really comes down to the fact that I think you all are pretty chill people that I'd like to hang with. The cEDH community is small as is, let's not fragment it any further!

kaylani on TnT Eternal Winter

1 month ago

You're right, SynergyBuild. This is my paper list, so there are notable exclusions like: ImpSeal, duals, Drain, Bob, etc. Surprisingly enough, I've been enjoying the play patterns unlocked by Schemming Symmetry so much that I would be reluctant to get rid of it after I get my ImpSeal kkkkk. Tymna the Weaver provides a consistent way to access the tutored card in the same turn, so we can get the value first, frequently the opponent never gets so see their card. But the political aspect of the card is really versatile too.

Regarding Miscast X Dispel: I think that, for the most part, Dispel is more effective when dealing with things that I want to counter, and it does a much better job in the late game. Since there are not a lot of sorceries that I want to counter in the early game, when Miscast shines brighter, Dispel is taking that spot until my meta starts to pivot into fast combo again...

I like Diabolic Intent just enough, since the deck is very dense on creatures. It's usually going to eat a dork and fetch something much more impactful. I liked it better on combo focused decks, like the Flash+Protean Hulk variants, but it still pretty good here.

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