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Vryn Wingmare Discussion
JKRice on Oloro Stax
2 days ago
Seems like a pretty solid stax deck, but there are a few things that need to be smoothed out, mainly in your creatures.
2: Nether Traitor, Reassembling Skeleton, and Bloodghast: all good cards, but not necessarily on your deck. Even as a stax/stall deck, you are not going to beat someone down from 40 with a bloodghast. They will be able to kill it or kill you before you win. Instead, I would recommend one of three things, or a combination of them. A: put in Starfield of Nyx as a beatdown strategy. Since you have lots of enchantments, you can kill someone easily with this. B: Myth Realized get huge very fast. Since you are a grindy deck, this thing can start three shotting people before they are able to win through your stax. C: add in more stax stuff, like Vryn Wingmare or maybe something like Frozen AEther.
4: you have lots of lands and more than enough ramp that you don’t need them. I wouldn’t recommend playing any more than 37 lands.
1 month ago
I think you did a pretty good job for a first deck.
You seem to be running a combination of really good cards and out of place shitty cards. Unless there is some combo or synergy you have with them that I'm missing I think the following cards are garbage and should be cut:
If your opponents are going off way faster than you then you need to think about how to upset their early game with hate pieces. In combo heavy metas cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare and Glowrider slow your opponents down enough to let you gain control of the situation Kambal, Consul of Allocation also gains you life to stick around as they cast themselves to death. for creature heavy metas cards like Archfiend of Depravity, Ophiomancer, forced sac like Butcher of Malakir Dictate of Erebos and Magus of the Tabernacle can really fuck over a lot of decks. For pure control, stax is usually the best option in competitive EDH since relying on counterspells and spot removal to keep 3 other players in check isn't feasible. I also always recommend some graveyard hate in any deck Nihil Spellbomb Relic of Progenitus Grafdigger's Cage Rest in Peace Tormod's Crypt Crypt Incursion Silent Gravestone are all good and cheap to play. I also personally put Necropotence in every black deck, It's so good it honestly should be banned. other good general control cards are Force of Will Pact of Negation Mystic Confluence and Cryptic Command.
I'm not really clear on the win con. Something like a Blightsteel Colossus, any of the preators, or a x mana life drain like Debt to the Deathless, Exsanguinate, or Torment of Hailfire could kill of opponents once you've stabilized the game.
1 month ago
Thanks, that response was great. I have been following your deck building work for a while.
I am considering cutting Null Rod, Stony Silence, Sanctum Prelate, Runic Armasaur, and Ulvenwald Tracker. Consecrated Sphinx, Glen Elendra Archmage, Tendershoot Dryad, Sun Titan and maybe Idyllic Tutor would be the replacements.
There are no artifact based decks. I see the fast mana artifacts some. Grim Monolith, Mox Diamond and Mana Crypt are rare. Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo and Mana Vault are played. I never see Paradox Engine.
The other list has eight means to tutor creatures and none to tutor instants. Caustic Caterpillar and Manglehorn are in the list. I don't see Blood Moon, Back to Basics or many of the oppressive enchantments. I do see a lot of Propaganda effects. Do you think changing Manglehorn to Reclamation Sage would allow me to cut Nature's Claim?
Thanks for taking time to answer these questions. I know you have played Derevi for several years. Your insight into the deck is very informed.
1 month ago
Oppressive Rays and Soul Tithe are basically just strictly worse Path to Exile. If you want to deal with something like a Primeval Titan or a Wurmcoil Engine, then you won't be able to because your opponent will happily pay the tax and kill you anyway. I know you want tax tribal, but I think you should make an exception for Path to Exile.
Mana Tithe is a beautiful card, but I don't think it's good enough. Especially if you have Thalia in play and have to pay 2 mana for it.
Do you need Nykthos? I guess it can allow you to cast Chancellor and helps you cast Spelltithe Enforcer, but I don't think either of those are necessary by any means. I think 2 more Field of Ruin or 2 Ghost Quarter would be better.
Shefet Dunes is a neat trick for closing games. It doesn't tax, but it's also a land so I think that's grey area.
I think there are too many 4-drops. I also think you have too many 3-ofs and not enough 4-ofs. I think Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, Leonin Arbiter, and Judge's Familiar should be 4-ofs. I think Baird is the worst of your 4-drops, but I'm not sure. Windborn Muse dies to Lightning Bolt, which feels bad.
What I would do:
Remove Chancellor of the Annex, Baird, 1 Windborn Muse, Spelltithe Enforcer, Oppressive Rays, Soul Tithe, Mana Tithe, Nykthos, and 1 Plains (18 cards)
That leaves 4 cards unaccounted for. I don't know what I would do with those final 4 spots.
1 month ago
So I really wanted a fun theme deck and taxes is right up my ally. This is a bit of a different take on Death and Taxes, cutting out the Death part.
I seriously wanted every card in the deck to tax my opponents somehow. Here is my current list:
I'm still fine tuning it but right out the gate I see a couple problems that I could use some input on.
First off, maybe 8 colorless lands is too many? I really like the scry from Zhalfirin Void since I dont have many ways to gain card advantage but I can see it giving me problems with cards like Archangel of Tithes.
Secondly, the obvious anti-synergies between Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, and my 13 noncreature spells. Is it worth taxing myself a little bit or should I really focus on creatures only?
All tips appreciated!
1 month ago
+1 from me.
2 months ago
Soren841 I can't say you are wrong... but that was a little harsh, don't you think?
ChibiNature Animar is a powerful commander, one with high resilience to non-creature based stax like Thorn of Amethyst, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, and Vryn Wingmare, and Animar is very fast, winning turns 3-4 with the ability to play through the mid-game turns 5-7 with a decent chance, however is can't win nearly as fast as the other speedy combo lists, and due to that it just isn't tier 1 on speed alone. It also normally requires it's commander to win, and though Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker lines are a powerful asset to the deck, paying ~8 mana for them, or even 4 mana with Animar on the field is still not as fast.
The deck also doesn't have the same exact protection other lists in more colors do. Having access to white like Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver lists do means no cards like Silence or Grand Abolisher can be run, and most Animar list are too creature-based to run normal counter-magic in the same amounts as normal lists. They still have good protection (think Glen Elendra Archmage or Sylvan Safekeeper), but simply good isn't tier 1. Tier 1 decks need to be extremely well built, with nearly every card being powerful at every stage of the game. It is difficult to imagine, but check out i hate all of you which requires every card to be so balanced it dropped Hurkyl's Recall for Rebuild, and similar changes.
Ancestral Animar by JMCraig is currently one of the best and most balanced lists for Animar, Soul of Elements, it has everything you could generally ask for in the deck, but it isn't Tier 1 in the most competitive metas due to it being a little bit slower and a tiny bit less protected than other fast combo lists. It is still a competitive tier 1.5 amazing deck, and I would suggest playing it to a ton of players, but I can't say I ever imagining it being tier 1 unless WotC prints something like another couple Ancestral Statues that are easier to tutor for (0-2 power for Imperial Recruiter, 3 mana for Trophy Mage, etc.) or something stupidly OP like that.
2 months ago
Astraxa was the list, it isn't super based on +1/+1 counters, but has cards like Anafenza, the Foremost, Scavenging Ooze, Dovin Baan (the ultimate is insane in stax), Tamiyo, Field Researcher, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, and Luminarch Ascension, all of which use Atraxa's proliferate ability, but her flying is used with fetching out Sword of Feast and Famine, which allows the deck to get around effects like Static Orb, Back to Basics, Winter Orb in the deck, and the list also runs a lot of creature based ramp, so it can get more mana than the opponents, by using effects like Sphere of Resistance, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Glowrider, Vryn Wingmare, Trinisphere, Armageddon, Null Rod, Thorn of Amethyst, Ravages of War, and Stony Silence to shut out all of their mana, and win the game!