Force of Vigor
If it's not your turn, you may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy up to two target artifacts and/or enchantments.
|Have (2)||Bluboltar ,|
|Want (2)||SamppaSjalv , MrMittensSr|
Printings View all
|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Force of Vigor Discussion
1 week ago
marcsman, great list-I was going to make a more moderate power level version of this deck until I saw your build.
What do you usually get when you transmute Muddle the Mixture?
The deck seems very light on removal. I know some of the CEDH favorites are not in your colors-Abrupt Decay, or Assassin's Trophy. But Chain of Vapor is an option as well as a something like Force of Vigor which is not seen in CEDH circles but is good.
1 week ago
I have been doing some more thinking about Explore. Could Explore be Dryad of the Ilysian Grove? It gets you another land drop every turn and as a small bonus turns on every land in the deck for Earthcraft.
Growth Spiral seems too limited. It could be a continuous and much better draw effect with Sylvan Library. Three Visits is a better ramp spell. I can get another major combat buff in Shared Animosity. Or another piece of interaction in the form of Mana Drain or Swan Song could be added.
I count 27 spells which produce mana. This is not counting Pir's Whim but is counting Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, Thieving Skydiver, Sword of Feast and Famine, Explore and Growth Spiral. The decks plays 39 lands which seems high given the massive amount of mana this deck can produce. Has there been any thought to cutting down to 37 or 38 lands?
Counting the interaction in this deck is a little tricky. Let me ask this. How often does Thieving Skydiver steal a mana artifact as opposed to a stax or hate bear artifact?
Including Thieving Skydiver, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Commit / Memory I count 12 interaction spells. Has this been sufficient? Could an argument be made to cut one of the mana generating spells for something like Force of Vigor. Let's say Explore and Growth Spiral had already been cut. What is your worse mana producing spells left?
What wheel gets cut for Timetwister?
Has Pir's Whim been an effective removal spell? I assume you only choose yourself as friend.
2 weeks ago
Cut down to 37 lands, I'd say. Probably...a Plains and a Forest?
You also need more removal. I'd recommend picking a few out of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Generous Gift, Beast Within, Chaos Warp, Nature's Chant, Return to Nature, Force of Vigor, Return to Dust. Those are single target creature/artifact/enchantment removal, mainly. You also need a bit of mass removal. I'd suggest something like Hour of Reckoning, Dusk / Dawn, Cleansing Nova, or Austere Command.
3 weeks ago
Sorry for the delay with this post, and the pending update. My wife and I just welcomed a new addition to our home, so needless to say things have been a bit busy. I will also be moving to a new house next week so It might be a week or two before I get to the update. For now I will at least give you my thought on the comments, as well as the deck changes that I have landed on!
I think I will start with the changes that you will see in the update because that is the core of the conversation right now.
Force of Vigor OUT FOR Ancient Greenwarden - Although removing Force is going to upset some people, I have been generally underwhelmed by the card. Sure, free removal sounds great but I generally play this deck in a turbo aggressive way. Sure, Force might be a better card, but doesn't really follow the way I have constructed the deck.
Return of the Wildspeaker OUT FOR Valakut Exploration - This appears to be a clean card-draw upgrade to me. Although this new inclusion might not be the great card draw in the deck, I do think I will feel right at home here.
Steely Resolve OUT FOR Nahiri's Lithoforming - With this update the deck will now have 17 total creatures, and 4 different cards to tutor them out. With that being said, Steely Resolve has turned into a dead card next to Sylvan Safekeeper, who can be tutored out very easily. Adding in Nahiri's Lithoforming was a no-brainer to me. Sure, it is a "bad" Scapeshift, that still makes is a really good card.
Ranger's Path OUT FOR Three Visits - I know, about time! The only complaint I expect to hear is why I didn't cut Migration Path instead. The simple answer is because I think the added cycle is better then being able to find my non-basics. Shoot me lol.
Myriad Landscape OUT FOR Field of the Dead - Another overdue change. The value behind a hoard of "free" expendable tokens is just nuts. Whoever at Wizards though it would be ok to put this kind of value on a land has my thanks!
Mountain OUT FOR Snow-Covered Mountain - Goes along with adding Field of the Dead. I don't see the need to split the count of basics in half, all that Field cares about is have different names, and this deck ramps out basics enough that finding the snows will never be a problem.
Perilous Forays OUT FOR Moraug, Fury of Akoum/Valakut Awakening Flip - Easily the biggest controversy right now. I think I can fairly say that no card in this deck has more of a conflicting argument on both sides of cutting and keeping a card in the deck then Perilous Forays. Some people wonder why it has lasted in my list so long, while others are baffled by the fact that I am removing it. That being said, I will give you my opinion this "iconic" Om_rath card. First, it is a sac outlet in a color combo that has few. Although this argument has merit, that is not why the card was in the deck. The reason the card stayed so long was the "feel good" of being able to sac Om_rath tokens over and over again while netting more and more tapped basic lands. The christmas land is when either Lotus Cobra or Amulet of Vigor were in play! Although I pulled this off a few times, it rarely won me a game. Second, the spell cost 5 cmc. This is the biggest draw back for me, it is a 5cmc spell that does nothing for me until I have 2-4 other cards in play. Third, paying 1 mana for the sac ability nerfs that card considerably. Yes, it would be broken if it was free, but there are plenty of free sac outlets that cost less mana. All of this being said, Perilous Forays is sitting the bench and is being slotted in as my playtesting spot. Essentially I like the look of both Moraug, Fury of Akoum and Valakut Awakening Flip, but I am not in love with either on the surface. And before anyone else say it, no I do not think I can take out a land for Valakut Awakening Flip, mainly because it cannot be fetched out. Moraug, Fury of Akoum seems amazing on the surface, but the deck has mainly stepped away from winning through combat. Ill let you know how testing turns out!
With all of this being said, Zendikar Rising has been an amazing set for us! The main problem is that the deck list is insanely tight now! Making cuts in the future is going to be a real headache! Also, the creature count is reaching a record number for us! If Wizards gives us a couple more creatures it might be worth considering different cards. Also, many of you likely noticed that I decided not to cut Genesis Wave, it has won me far to many games, and you guys talked me out of it haha.
Now for some of the comments that I didn't already address with my deck changes.
BenWin: I have to be honest, the Sekki, Seasons' Guide combo does not interest me at all. I don't like combos that include dead cards when you draw into them. I also am not a big fan of infinite combos, and my meta isn't either. Nevertheless, I definitely this the combo is powerful and you should add it to your list if it is your thing!
I think Skullclamp thrives more in decks that make small creatures that die on equipping. Having to rely on another card makes it much weaker.
Sylvan Scrying likely won't be coming back. Sure, is is nice to find Cradle, but I don't need it to win the game, or any other land for that matter. I have almost considered removing more non-basics to increase to total basic land in the deck. I haven't gotten to that point get though.
This might cause an uproar, but Sensei's Divining Top is overrated in my opinion. It is amazing in the right deck, but way to many people play it as the greatest draw card ever (maybe it is for Red and White decks). I have taken mine out of most of my decks and been trading them away at their overpriced $50 price tag little by little lol.
Daedalus19876: The Ashaya, Soul of the Wild combo falls under the same concept as the Sekki, Seasons' Guide combo for me. I think you could easily turn this deck into the Tooth and Nail and I win deck, but that is not what I am really aiming for here. If you build that type of deck fill free to post it here and share! I would definitely like to see how that looks!
_Arra_: I think Lithoform Engine is a good card an all, but not at all what this deck wants. This deck thrives off of the mass amount of triggers and activations we get, and doubling a single one will really not do much for us. All we need to do instead is pay an additional land.
TraceT: I actually do think Scute Swarm is right at home in this deck, but is unfortunately under the power threshold to even be considered for this build. I say play it if you think it would be fun and let us know how it goes! the same kind of goes for Impact Tremors, the right deck, but not quite powerful enough.
I think I got to everyone's comments! I will make sure to post the update ASAP. I start packing for the move tomorrow and should be all settled by next Sunday. Until then please let me know what you think about the upcoming changes, and I am grateful for all the support!
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
I'd say all of the lands you listed except for Maze of Ith. Fetchlands and shocklands are the best thing you can do your for landbase outside of the original duals (which are hundreds each). In a 5-colour deck you're already limited on how many types of lands you can have, and Maze of Ith doesn't do much notable for a deck like this IMO. If you're going this deep into expensive lands and tutors, I highly recommend picking up a Mana Confluence, City of Brass, and Forbidden Orchard. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is an auto-include in any 2+ colour deck that features Black and can be tapped for Black itself. Ancient Tomb is amazing in decks with lots of colourless requirements like this. Prismatic Vista is very good too though less on the priority list for its price.
If you're going to be investing a lot into lands, make sure you make a faux list before buying anything since you don't want to get excess that you won't use. My personal general priority for 5-colour (ignoring OG duals) goes:
Assuming you take just what I listed there that puts you at 30 lands (minus basics). That gives you room for cards like Cavern of Souls, Reflecting Pool, Exotic Orchard, etc. Of course it totally comes down to how much you want to sink into your landbase, but it's a good place to start before tweaking things to your preference. You should keep at least one of each basic, or at least your main colours' basics for backup fetching. Battlelands like Sunken Hollow lose value the more you optimized your landbase due to lack of backs but are still good to take over say, bondlands. Since you already have them they'll do fine while also having the bonus of being tutored out by fetchlands.
Now that the wall of land-related text is over, time for the other cards you listed. Demonic Tutor is top tier, definitely get it if you have the money. Also look at Vampiric Tutor and Worldly Tutor. I personally like Dromoka, the Eternal, Kaalia of the Vast you already know how I recommend it, and Nesting Dragon is decent as a card but I don't think it'd work well here since you don't have a way to easily pop the eggs yourself. Future Sight is okay but I personally wouldn't run it in Ur-Dragon. Herald's Horn and Urza's Incubator I personally just take more mana rocks over but in your slower meta they could be decent picks. Mirari's Wake is amazing, and Nature's Lore you already know.
Since you're going this much into the deep end, once you get everything else set up first there's always the $$$$$ rocks like Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Chrome Mox, and god forbid Mox Diamond waiting for you. Just, you know, they're worth entire decks alone so only go for them once you're fully satisfied on the rest of the deck lmfao
3 weeks ago
Ok, so just went through... Also don't have Unclaimed Territory. I've updated the deck on what I decided, but I must ask, do you have any recommendation for something to swap out for Rishkar's Expertise and Force of Vigor? Having trouble deciding ahah.
1 month ago
Ah okay, I assumed the maybeboard were cards you were only looking at, my bad!
In that case you have a bunch of stuff that definitely could fit in the deck. For those three you mentioned Exploration is very good and can be slotted in over Rampant Growth, Canopy Vista/Smoldering Marsh can just be replaced by a Forest/Mountain, and definitely take a Sol Ring if you have a spare one.
As for others, here's the most notable you have on your maybeboard:
- Asceticism - If it resolves your dragons are almost invulnerable outside of stuff like deathtouch/boardwipes
- Smothering Tithe - Could help with ramp
- Dragonlord Ojutai - Great card advantage with hexproof half of the time
- Glorybringer - Might not be as strong as some other options but that exert can effectively be a removal spell every other turn
- Nicol Bolas, the Ravager Flip - Great value all around and if you manage to transform him you basically win
- Rishkar's Expertise - Pricy but casting it will probably mean refilling your hand and getting a free dragon which covers its cost
- Cyclonic Rift - EDH staple and one of the best boardwipes in the format, wipes all of your opponents' creatures, artifacts, walkers, etc
- Force of Vigor - Pretty good removal that can be manaless
- Teferi's Protection - Protects your entire side from boardwipes
For boardwipes you already have Crux of Fate and Balefire Dragon. Throwing in Cyclonic Rift would definitely be a good choice. The issue with boardwipes in decks like these is that you don't want to reset your own boardstate, but that's why the three I mentioned are so good because they only affect the opponents. Cyclonic Rift also dodges indestructable as it's a bounce effect rather than a destroy.
In my opinion, counters are generally not very effective in decks like these. It's generally more effective to run cards like Rhythm of the Wild and Asceticism as they're not one-shots, while also having the side-benefit of opponents using their counters on your other opponents instead. If you wanted to pick up additional effects like those if counters/removal are rampant in your group, I personally like Steely Resolve and Conqueror's Flail.
If you want more spot removal, I definitely recommend picking up a Path to Exile. With it, Swords to Plowshares, and Anguished Unmaking you should be good for spot removal unless you wanted to splurge on an Assassin's Trophy.
I'm unsure about Ramos, Dragon Engine. Since you're in a more casual environment they might be okay, but unless you have something like Descendants' Path down they're not really worthwhile. If you're wanting to go out and buy a fairly expensive creature, by far the best purchase you could make is Kaalia of the Vast IMO.