|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2016 (C16)||Rare|
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Counter target enchantment, instant or sorcery spell. Its controller creates a 2/2 blue Bird creature token with flying.
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Swan Song Discussion
6 hours ago
You have 137 cards, you need to drop 37?
Drop all three temples, bounce lands, Sunken Hollow and Smoldering Marsh, Forge of Heroes, Command Beacon, the three lands like Sulfur Falls, Dragonskull Summit, Desolate Lighthouse, and Drowned Catacomb, total of 13 lands, but add City of Brass, Gemstone Caverns, Ancient Tomb, Mana Confluence, Tarnished Citadel, Gemstone Mine, Shivan Reef, Underground River, and Command Tower
Total loss of cards = 5, rest needed = 32
Mainboard additions I'd suggest?
Talisman of Dominance, Fellwar Stone, Talisman of Indulgence, Bottomless Pit, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Timetwister, Ponder, Brainstorm, Laboratory Maniac, Demonic Consultation, Tainted Pact, Imperial Seal, Dismember, Chain of Vapor, Pact of Negation, Mystic Remora, Swan Song, Delay, Dispel, Liliana of the Veil, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Chrome Mox, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, and Rolling Earthquake.
Addition of 27 cards = 59 total to drop
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Vedalken Humiliator, The Scarab God, Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Liliana Vess, The Eldest Reborn, Painful Quandary, Pendrell Mists, Mind's Dilation, Omniscience, Leyline of Anticipation, Hero's Downfall, Stunning Reversal, Rakdos Charm, Thrilling Encore, Countersquall, Desertion, Go for the Throat, Fraying Omnipotence, Hour of Devastation, Tormenting Voice, Torment of Hailfire, Syphon Mind, Disrupt Decorum, Dark Intimations, Cruel Ultimatum, Blatant Thievery, Beacon of Unrest, Blasphemous Act, Damnation, Bloodchief Ascension, Disciple of Bolas, Etali, Primal Storm, Nightveil Specter, Fell Specter, Blazing Specter, Augur of Bolas, Clever Impersonator, Jace's Archivist, Kess, Dissident Mage, Mystic Confluence, Disallow, Cryptic Command, Reforge the Soul, Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Entreat the Dead, Phyrexian Arena, Rhystic Study, Search for Azcanta Flip, Dream Salvage, Chromatic Lantern, Expedition Map, Lightning Greaves, Worldgorger Dragon, Animate Dead, Gonti, Lord of Luxury and Glacial Chasm
That should do it! 100 card deck!
The biggest upside to my switches and drops is the extreme amount of lowering that is done to the average cmc of the deck, along with the droppage of slower cards that do little without other spells. The new gameplan would be use discard and disruption like countermagic and removal to stop your opponents just long enough to use Laboratory Maniac with Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact to exile your deck, and usually a draw spell like Brainstorm. More tutors for consistent gameplay is in the switches too.
14 hours ago
This is a very land-light deck and Burgeoning will mostly only drop one or two lands maximum for a card. It also doesn't put counters on Animar, can't be tutored for, and is a bad draw at any time except turn one to drop a turn two Animar. Carpet of Flowers more consistently ramps this deck into a turn two Animar and still doesn't deserve a spot because just getting a turn two animar by spending a mana isn't enough, it normally has to either be free like Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox or the similar effects or be a creature like Birds of Paradise.
Venser, Shaper Savant is not useful in the same way Man-o'-War is, being that both can bounce themselves, but Man o' War can do it for half the mana, putting twice the +1/+1 counters that Venser will on Animar. This is a huge difference when you need a number of counters to cast a game-winning spell by turn 4 or trying to win right there.
Against Red Removal, Blasphemous Act type effects are unaffected by Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots, so I assume this isn't your problem. Against Lightning Bolt effects stuff like Spellskite, Sylvan Safekeeper, Glen Elendra Archmage, Force of Will, Pact of Negation, and Mental Misstep can counter as well as just putting a few counters on Animar, Soul of Elements. Against Chaos Warp, we still have Spellskite, Sylvan Safekeeper, Glen Elendra Archmage, Force of Will, and Pact of Negation, though you could run some cards like Swan Song and Dispel can be flex slots. They also happen to slow your opponents down if they try to combo out.
Against Blue Removal, which I assume is your problem, Chain of Vapor, Into the Roil, Rapid Hybridization and Cyclonic Rift can still be blocked with Spellskite, Sylvan Safekeeper, Glen Elendra Archmage, Force of Will, and Pact of Negation, but also can be blocked by some of the flex slots I talked about prior.
Green removal is pretty much just Beast Within and Song of the Dryads and is generally rare, but if it is really hurting your, Spellskite, Sylvan Safekeeper, Glen Elendra Archmage, Force of Will, and Pact of Negation can stop them all, and Caustic Caterpillar, Brutalizer Exarch, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger can deal with Song of the Dryads type effects.
Now while I respect your opinion in your meta on the use and capability of Emrakul, the Promised End, in this deck it commonly reduces it's cost by 1-3 mana, and can be reduced by 4-7 on a mid-sized Animar, Soul of Elements like you said, so 5-10 mana on normal by turns 5-6, or mid game. Even saying it costs is pushing it and if that is the case, you should run it if your meta is overrun with decks that are ruined by it. However due to the top tiered decks normally running a high number of instants that can be used to disable their own ability, think Chain of Vapor, they could commonly stop you from ruining themselves too bad in response to the ability before their turn. Rarely can it do more than a Word of Command because of stuff like that. Even if it just killed target player, like you said about swinging in with a swoll Animar, it doesn't win you the game to kill one player.
Again, that is only the reason that it isn't good enough for JMCraig to toss it in with the goal of this for cEDH decks, but if it works in your playgroup, do it! I have only the best wishes for you and your Animar deck!
You want a backup-backup plan I think was that second-to-last line? I don't understand why you think that is nessecary, but I will go over the plan:
Main Plan : Animar + Statue + Outlet = Win
Backup Plan : Kiki-jiki + Untapper = Win
We have a backup plan, why do you assume we need another?
You seemed to argue for Tishana over Big Kozi, but Kozilek, Butcher of Truth does have other use in the deck, and I would argue is better with a pumped Animar than Tishana. It can be free if you need a wincon and have Ancestral Statued Animar, Soul of Elements to infinity and beyond and just need to win, but don't have much more mana, Kozi is free, also with Survival of the Fittest you can fetch him and discard him to reshuffle your yard back in if you couldn't otherwise get back a card. Due to the discard being the cost, you could then fetch out a card that was in your graveyard when you fetched, making a really cool Primal Command effect for and a Survival of the Fittest.
Arguing Tishana can be fetched with Fierce Empath is fair, no arguement here, and it is even a decent option, but Imperial Recruiter has a ton of much better options, like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to copy the recruiter fetching Deceiver Exarch and winning the game. I can't think of a game I have ever played with Animar in which I wished I had a tishana to fetch with Imperial Recruiter. But yes, it isn't technically wrong.
The last thing I want to cover was one of your first points, about the lack of outlets to win with Ancestral Statue, with Purphoros, God of the Forge and Walking Ballista being the outlets of choice, if you have found problems tutoring tehm out, try also running Reckless Fireweaver. It doesn't combo with Man-o'-War or Shrieking Drake, but is still very useful.
1 day ago
Thanks for sharing this great deck list and keeping us updated with the changelog. I do want to discuss some points:
Sylvan Tutor vs Chord of Calling: I really love the flexibility of casting chord as an instant. I haven't tested sylvan yet, but since the target comes on top of the library at sorcery speed, your opponents have a turn to react and set up. It's the same with Brutalizer Exarch, but he is more flexibel with his removal option. Chord let's you set up a combo at the opponents end step and it's also great for responding to enemy removal (safekeeper).
Only 3 counterspells: in my experience, what really hurts Animar is a mass removal. Besides pact and force, I run Swan Song, Spell Pierce and Stubborn Denial. Maybe it's a meta game call, but I always fell safe to pump out creature spells with a counter as backup.
My list is a lot different then yours, it's too much to discuss every card, but I do want to mention 2 of my favorites:
Emrakul, the Promised End: great "finisher" spell. She doesn't win on the spot, but usually "mindslavering" an opponents turn will lead to a win later on.
Tishana, Voice of Thunder: Best card draw. Early she is easier to cast then "good ol' Kozi" and most of the times you can draw more then 4 cards. I haven't seen the "annihilator bonus" of Kozi in a long time, even though I run Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots. He kind of always gets removed when he shows up :)
1 day ago
You should cut cards that do not contribute to the stax strategy or towards winning for cEDH:
Increase your land count to 28 at least
Try experimenting with Oath of Teferi/The Chain Veil + Felidar Guardian + Altar of the Brood and/or Tainted Pact + Laboratory Maniac as a way to win the game. I also like Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal combo in a stax build.
4 days ago
Okay, I would suggest you try to make the deck as consistent as possible, while also having a lot of interaction. Given your manabase being split between four colors, effects such as Counterspell are a bit hard to cast. Countermagic though should be run. Arcane Denial is a card I recommend, as it generally doesn't draw too much hate, doesn't cost double , and replaces itself as a card.
This is the type of logic I implore you to use when deciding the power level of cards. I assume you have the same dilemma most have when deck building of card attachment. Because of this, I will give you a list of cards I would drop in the list, for more powerful interaction, ramp, and card draw.
Here we go:
Citadel Siege - This is a +1/+1 counter deck, and this puts +1/+1 counters on your creatures, it makes sense why it is run, but you have so many effects in this nature, that this card I don't think makes the cut. This deck has a lot of creatures, and this card doesn't put a +1/+1 on up to two creatures, both of which could be proliferated later, instead it only puts two on one creature. I don't hink it is worth 5 mana.
Brave the Elements - Vigilance is a good ability, but for a 2 mana enchantment, this would have to do much more than this to be worth it in my opinion. Dropping it for more ramp allows you to be more aggressive, and get your opponents on the defensive, rather than you having to defend yourself.
Duneblast - Cool card, yes, but in this deck I don't think saving one of your creatures is worth a whopping 3 more mana and an extra color symbol than Day of Judgment or a similar effect. I personally would rather see Languish in this deck, as it can kill most creatures, while your generally are larger, or Black Sun's Zenith, which puts -1/-1 counters on your opponents' creatures you can proliferate over time.
Disdainful Stroke - Okay, this next part might get into a bit of math, but here is why Disdainful Stroke is nearly strictly worse than Arcane Denial, and it has to do with card advantage. If Disdainful Stroke was a Counterspell for just a , I would still run Arcane Denial over it. An effect like Disdainful Stroke leaves you down a card, and your opponent down a card, with two other opponents up a card. Since Arcane Denial replaces itself, and give two card to an opponent, at the cost of one, you are only down a card to one opponent, instead of two.
2-4 lands - A deck of this CMC normally needs only 35-37 lands to get all of their spells cast on time. I don't have the statistics on me right now, so trust me or not, but that has been my experience and the experience of many others.
Okay, so what should you add in? I would run more counterspells, like Delay, Mana Leak, Swan Song, or anything you want to run for versatility like Unsubstantiate or Supreme Will. Removal like Swords to Plowshares, Chain of Vapor, Beast Within, or Aura of Silence can also be useful, as well as card draw like Windfall, Brainstorm, Ponder, or Preordain. The creature base seems fine, I suggest a Sunscorch Regent because it is insanely fun, but otherwise keep it up!
Oh yeah, you wonder what to do against Inalla, Archmage Ritualist? Torpor Orb, Tocatli Honor Guard, and Hushwing Gryff shut them down efficiently, also they only hurt 6 of your cards, being Prime Speaker Zegana's draw ability, Juniper Order Ranger, Elite Scaleguard's bolster ability, Armorcraft Judge, and a couple creature's evolve ability. The reason effects such as Fertilid's enter the battlefield with two +1/+1 counter ability or similar abilities across your deck is due to them not being triggered abilities. They happen 'as' the creature enters, instead of immediately after. It is a little weird.
Against graveyard decks, consider Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, and Ground Seal. They are pretty self explanatory, but run the ones you want to, all have ups and downs. For instance, though you may know that tokens disappear if they leave the battlefield, they still go to the graveyard when they die, immediately after they disappear, which is why effects like Deathgreeter trigger when 3 tokens die. This means Leyline of the Void won't stop Deathgreeter gaining life when tokens die, but Rest in Peace will. Differences like this are minor, but may make you decide between different forms of graveyard hate.
6 days ago
Although consensus seems to be there's no such equivalent permanent card to Squeeze in modern format, I very much appreciate the suggested spells!
seshiro_of_the_orochi: Thank you - I could splash a little white in there potentially to get that same kind of thing happening.
6 days ago
Thanks again! Guess I will doing quite a bit of tinkering w/ this one. Definitely will check out the video you posted ASAP, and considering taking the "beaters" out in favor of unblockable stuff like Traitor's Clutch and Whispersilk Cloak.... also, Swan Song has been suggested as a good counterspell option.