Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Legendary Creature — Praetor
Other creatures you control get +2/+2.
Creatures your opponents control get -2/-2.
|Have (3)||, lorddarkstar , metalmagic|
|Want (9)||insecticon3000 , Throl7 , Suicune , Astrocomical , gotsprite , AndrewsLuz , Showa , metergram , pyrophage|
Printings View all
|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Mythic Rare|
|New Phyrexia (NPH)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.03%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.06%
GW (Selesnya): 1.08%
Recommendations View more recommendations
Latest Decks as Commander
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite Discussion
1 week ago
I spelled it soulbound that's why it was auto corrected to southbound which is a common term when telling someone how to find you on the road specifically ones that use jug handle uturns. I believe states outside of NJ call them roundabouts. Anyway, some other combos are Lavinia, Azorius Renegade + Knowledge Pool this makes it so that your opponents can't cast spells anymore.
1 week ago
@DespairFaction Hey PJ! Thanks for the feedback.
All the hatebears have been performing really well so far. Just having an early aggressive and evasive creature that can hold equipment and get the train going, the fact that it slows down opponents makes them great.
Captain Lannery Storm has always been a great card in my deck. Turn 3 when she comes out I can always seem to find a free attack that helps me ramp early on. Swiftblade Vindicator has been excellent as it holds equipment incredibly well. I don't think the low toughness has ever been a problem for me, so once again an early, aggressive creature is just what this deck wants. As for Wayfarer's Bauble (Commander's Quarter's echoes are heard in the distance) I've always liked how it can get a land. Drawing it late game is just like drawing a copy of Rampant Growth late game, something that never stops us from running it.
Winds of Abandon has actually incredibly overperformed in this deck. The floor of the card is a bad Path to Exile (which is still great) while the ceiling is a one-sided boardwipe that can only be protected against by a counterspell or Teferi's Protection. It's the white version of Cyclonic Rift. Not nearly as powerful, but I'll take one-sided exile board wipes any day. With that in mind, I really like all the pieces of removal I've got in this deck, what I really was talking about is that I want just one or two more slots I feel to get just a tad bit more instant speed interaction in the deck.
The draw power of the deck works really well. Outpost Siege has always been ol' reliable for me. The way I play this deck, a steady flow of a bit of impulsive draw every turn is exactly what I want. Commune with Lava,Prophetic Flamespeaker, and Light Up the Stage could probably get me more impulsive draw, but I don't like overextending in this deck, and I feel the Siege tends to be more reliable every turn. Tome of Legends does seem like it could be pretty good in this deck considering how often our general attacks. Let me know how that one works for ya.
The deck doesn't tend to struggle with other aggressive/stompy decks because of all the board wipes that are in the deck. I think Winter Orb probably works better in the weapons of war build than this build since the larger focus on equipment makes getting Sword of Feast and Famine easier.
The creatures are definitely the cards in this deck that I feel are most flexible. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is an amazing card, and I've definitely thought about picking it up and trying it before, it could probably swap places with Urabrask the Hidden. I really wanted Neheb, the Eternal to work, but every time I played it I rarely had anything to do with the red mana haha. All in all though I want this deck to be aggressive, so I don't want the top end of this deck to get too heavy, or I find my hands getting more and more clunky.
I do have to point out though that this isn't a deck meant to compete with cEDH decks. If you stuck it in a cEDH pod and have a strong, competent pilot really thinking about and making the correct plays, it would definitely seem really threatening to all the decks that aren't used to the aggression, but it could never win as fast as it relies on combat damage. I think it would sneak out 1 in 5 games in a cEDH pod. If we were to use the command zone deck rating scale, I would say this deck edges on the end of optimized, an 8.5 or so. I will say that adding back Helm of the Host would probably make this deck a tad stronger, but I took it out because I got bored of it haha.
So, TL;DR, I'm feeling pretty good about most of the deck, the creatures are the ones I feel best about swapping out, and I feel I want a few more pieces of instant speed interaction.
1 week ago
On the opposite side of the coin Ive been doing a lot of Aurelia deck reviews lately, so based on my past experience heres what changes I would make. The first issue that jumped out at me is the number of 3 drops. This always becomes a problem when you run a lot of the swords, however when deck building I will often shift the swords to the 5 CMC slot visually just because that is much more inline with how they perform. Anyway with this being the case I always want to make sure my 3 CMC cards are essentially over performing because its so crowded, and the other thing is that you do want to have some number of bigger plays as the game goes later or if someone ramps hard. I recently destroyed all the tokens of Avenger of Zendikar with an Elesh Norn which was 7 drop vs 7 drop...you won't get that by running entirely 3 drops. When the game gets big, you want some ability to go big as well.
I would probably cut captain lannery storm as a result. I would add signet or talisman in its place. Combat celebrant has generally also underperformed for me so In place of that, the card you need more than anything else in this deck is Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite its removal, and its team pump for a deck full of small creatures. In short its a game winner.
Depending on how winds of abandon is performing, that would most likely be the slot for generous gift/chaos warp. By running both of those I notice that glacial chasm and spore frog aren't nearly the problems they used to be for me. In general I don't love that wind's of abandon gives something back to opponents, it can be a problem sometimes, so I might go for Volcanic Offering instead since blowing up key lands or just slowing your opponents while also taking out the 2 best creatures in play of your opponents.
Next Outpost Siege has never been my favorite, Light Up the Stage is a bit more immediate, but lately Ive been really hot on Commune with Lava especially when you've got feast and famine in play since you can float mana. Commune has the ability to grab 2 early if you just need a land or you can scale X to go bigger in the late game. You'll need to play it a few times it does require a small amount of skill to get it just right, but Id go that route over outpost. Tome of Legends is a card that i am currently trying to get tested, but i never seem to draw it, however it looks very promising in Aurelia. Beyond that, I've also used Prophetic Flamespeaker in the past. It wears equipments well and will get you to look at some extra cards, and it works best in a low curve deck like this because of the nature of impulse draw.
Here are things that I very much want to add but don't have room for but you might want to consider. Blackblade Reforged it deletes players from the game, especially if you have double strike. Umezawa's Jitte its easily the most complicated equipment since its range of performance goes from does nothing up to wins the game. Neheb, the Eternal It just makes so much mana and its good on attacking and blocking also. Archangel of Thune predominantly to make your hate bears bigger and close the game quicker.
Here are some very interesting cards to think about that Ive used or have been trying to test more. Backdraft Hellkite slow but flashback on your spells. Helm of Possession Turn your 2 drops into someones consecrated sphinx or commander. Its somewhat skill intensive, but stealing other peoples stuff is absurdly powerful. You currently don't have a fog effect other than teferi's in the deck which makes me nervous, maybe its a meta call but I really like a fog that can be brought back with mist veil plains so Comeuppance or Dawn Charm depending if you value the lower CMC vs more power. Also as a nice, this deck does look a bit soft to other aggro or big stompy decks.
Next, lets talk about stax. You've got some light stax to medium stax happening in this deck. If you want to bring it to the next level here are some super nasty options. God-Pharaoh's Statue this thing makes it super hard for your opponents to cast anything and just grinds them to hault.. they won't be comboing off through this. Next, my personal favorite its very good as you get toward the Cedh side of things, is Winter Orb once again it crushes combo decks, crushes tatyova and golos style decks and other big ramp decks, and really any deck that doesn't have just tons of big creatures in play. Its very skill intensive, but the key to break parity is Feast and famine and Neheb. Next Blind Obedience its nasty, and if you draw enough cards its a win condition, plus life gain which is also relevant. If you find that other aggro or stompy decks are problem, take a look at Angelic Arbiter you basically don't lose to creature decks. Aura of Silence is also very real, sometimes a little slow but can come back with sun titan...happens occasionally.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing another protection spell in the deck. Many choices available here Eerie Interlude, Legion's Initiative Brought Back and even just Cloudshift Ephemerate bring some amount of protection but can also be used for the 3rd combat trick amongst other things.
Alright those are my thoughts for now. I am sure thats plenty to think about. Let me know if you have any questions :) -PJ, Commander Replay
1 week ago
Difficult to say without knowing your meta because you are stax heavy. I'll rabble off some thoughts:
I have a Chulane deck that is incredibly similar to this with stax/combos if you want to check it out for some card suggestions [Primer] Chulane's Bounce House [cEDH]
2 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
couple of recommendation here: Your playing white, Smothering Tithe will win you games outright due to mana advantage. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite absolutely destroys board states and lets you push through. Archetype of Courage if going to make your deathtouchers insanely efficient on the board
1 month ago
Yeah, thanks for the upvote :)
I've had a lot of fun with the deck so far. I haven't managed to get much out of the Wild Pair package. Since there are no actual tutors in the deck for getting out enchantments that's been a bit difficult.
I'm actually considering Gamble and Long-Term Plans as 'soft' tutors purely for the Wild Pair and once I've got that for cards such as Vicious Shadows and Warstorm Surge .
The deck is still pretty new, and I'm still fine-tuning it. I've now only played it four times since I've been busy with other stuff lately:
- Game 1: Won through getting value out of an early Momir Vig, Simic Visionary , keeping it safe with the counter creatures and smashing face with Forgotten Ancient and Master Biomancer making my team bigger.
- Game 2: It was a five-player game where the first one to knock the two opponents directly to the left and right of you wins: Kept board-control and ramp up with Yasova Dragonclaw and Perilous Forays . Almost died to a ridiculous Arixmethes-huge-stompy-creatures deck, but turned it around with the Reins of Power I was sitting on (such an over-performer). And later shared my victory as our shared opponent got knocked out by the other player.
- Game 3: regrettably had to spend most of my time and resources on an Orzhov player that kept recurring the Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite that rendered the rest of my cards mostly useless. Later everyone got kicked out by a combo player going off
- Game 4: Didn't win, didn't get quite the engines going that I wanted to. But the game (5-player FFA) was crazy enough as it is.
I would say that for now the deck is good enough at battlefield control (particularly creatures), but as I mentioned I want to look into options that make the Wild Pair actually work (in none of the games I drew it so far).
I've since added Warstorm Surge , because that card can do stupid things once you get something like Glen Elendra Pranksters or other bounce and some ramp or control creatures. I've added Ambush Viper to go along with that. Swapped those for Llanowar Elves (in our meta often not dependable ramp since it's too fragile) and Briarhorn , since it having flash mattered less for the creatures it could look up and Yasova can usually steal enough interesting creatures with just 4 power.
Apart from the tutors I'm considering adding Purphoros, God of the Forge , since the incremental damage can quickly add up and the +1/+0 is actually really nice for Yasova, but I only have one copy of Purph and it's a key part of my Wort, the Raidmother deck.
1 month ago
Do you guys even play in competitive pods? Stax is a very easy match up for flash hulk players. Just hold removal before you combo if one of the 6 pieces that shuts you off is actually in play.
With the exception of stax pieces that shut off the flash hulk combo, almost every other stax piece actually helps the flash hulk player, because it lowers interaction from other players and allows them to combo in peace. Yes, the stax will hurt the flash hulk player, but its hurting the other players even more. You're creating an advantage for them by deficit, because the deficit is bigger for other players.
- Rule of Law and variants don't hamper the finding or executing of flash hulk
- Sphere of Resistance , Trinisphere , Winter Orb , Static Orb , and similar lower the amount of interaction other players are able to meaningfully hold against the flash hulk. Flash hulk must only assemble 2 mana to execute the combo, so even with tax or slow down pieces it doesn't take long for them to assemble the mana, even under Trinisphere
- Creature wipes or other board wipes don't really slow the flash hulk game plan, unless your wipe is at instant speed. The new fish hulk allows players to hold priority and fully execute the library flip into GY and stack the trigger before passing priority, negating instant speed wipes as a method for interacting
- Grave hate pieces are now irrelevant unless they stop the death trigger, as fish hulk can execute without reliance on GY
- Artifact hate like Stony Silence hits back up lines or fast mana for flash hulk, but doesn't stop the actual hulk
- Handstax are too slow unless you get a great play like Entomb into Reanimate on a Sire Of Insanity . Incremental handstax like Oppression or Necrogen Mists are certainly strong, but don't dump player hands fast enough to fully stop the flash hulk, but they do whittle away interaction from opponents trying to stop flash hulk
There's only a small handful of cards that stop the flash hulk combo outside of counterspells. We're looking at Pithing Needle Phyrexian Revoker or Sorcerous Spyglass naming Nomads en-Kor . There is also tutor hate with Aven Mindcensor or Stranglehold (and Leonin Arbiter , but thats just a delay, not a hard stop). Finally, you have big creature hate effects like Cursed Totem , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , or Suppression Field . Finally, you have creature hate that removes small dorks, like Plague Engineer , Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , or Night of Souls' Betrayal
Not all of those pieces are good enough to warrant slotting. Also slotting all of these pieces would lower your card quality significantly, which causes more losses against all decks that AREN'T running hulk (read: the two other players in the pod)
Part of the reason why its such a big slice of the meta and pretty much the deck to beat is because it is highly efficient, there is strong layering, it plays around stax, and the color identity gives it access to big draw engines, the most efficient tutors, and the most efficient removal.
So you land your Linvala against the T&T fishhulk player. All they have to do is continue to draw cards or tutor up a Path to Exile or any other piece of removal before jamming their combo.
Even if you decide to run Extract and pull the hulk from their deck, the deck isn't dead. You can Thrasios + infinite mana (dramatic scepter most likely) as a win-con. You get labman + consult as a wincon. The deck has very good layering. Even when you shut down the primary goal, it has still been advancing towards the second combo too. The Sylvan Library that was played turn 1 is now digging for consult pieces instead of hulk pieces. The tutors can be used to find those pieces instead. The best part, is that the stax pieces which shut off hulk combo don't shut off the other combos, which is why those combos in specific are layered underneath the hulk package.
I'm going to level with you Megalomania. You have told me you play flash hulk. Then you suggest the solution to fish hulk is to build a deck that makes it easier for fish hulk in pods. Then you say you have limited experience, but "just build the right archetype bro". So my question now is, are you just an extremely bad player who bought a $4000 deck, or are you an angle shooting dickhead trying to spread bad information to help avoid a ban for your $4000 deck?
Honestly, I kind of expect both sides out of flash hulk players. While I do suspect you're a competent dickhead spreading bad info, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you're a dummy who looked up the most popular tier 1 deck and bought it. Either way, I really need you to stop spreading your garbage information by posting. There are already enough bad players on tappedout, we really don't need any more help in that department.
StopShot The effects from Faerie Macabre and Ghost-Lit Raider are activated abilities from a creature, and are thus turned off from Grand Abolisher . Similarly, Simian Spirit Guide is shut off as well. Similarly, Linvala and Cursed Totem also turn off all three of these creature abilities.
Besides that, you do state succinctly why hulk should be banned over flash in response to the article. I agree. Hulk being legal forces specific and jank deckbuilding requirements.