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Torpor Orb Discussion
1 day ago
2 days ago
Wow, I haven't been on untap lately, but the arguments about this deck turned pretty interesting. I would like to state my opinion.
First off, HeavyR, Shapers' Sanctuary does work with Blossoming Defense. Your opponent casts say Lightning Strike on your creature, then the sanctuary trigger goes on the stack. You can respond to the trigger by casting Blossoming Defense on your creature. Now let's resolve the stack: first the Blossoming Defense grants the creature +2/+2 and hexproof, then you draw a card from Shapers' Sanctuary, then the Lightning Strike looks to see if it's targets are all still valid. They aren't since the creature has hexproof and thus it fizzles.
While we are at it, let's make another correction: FlabbyAbs said there are no Overruns in standard. We actually have exactly a powered down overrun in Overcome. Is this something you want in your deck? I don't know how your deck tends to play out when facing other standard decks, but if you often sit on 3-6 creatures but no window to attack, then sure. If you have trouble sticking more than 2 creatures on the board don't even consider it. I would also like to think Overcome is simply better than Engineered Might.
Personally I'm a huge fan of Heroic Intervention, but only as a 1 or 2-off. I was lucky enough to draft two of them in an Aether Revolt draft last year and I went undefeated. The strength of the card lies in it's ability to take care of a lot of problems your creatures might encounter: Blockers, Attackers, Removal and Wraths. I would include a copy mainboard, and maybe one in the sideboard as well. Blossoming Defense just keeps perfoming in the games i've seen it. In my opinion it's the only card worth splashing green for, and I would prolly run the full playset if you don't run Heroic Intervention. If you run heroic, I would run a 3-1 split between the two. Cut Sheltering Light, it's just a way shittier card than the two great green options.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary is a really good card, and in a slow control game it's totally insane. It's a sideboard card for sure, but a VERY good one. The scry is already great and the card advantage is completely stupid after drawing 4-10 cards. It also synergizes with Oketra's Monument. How? Well, both cards big weakness is Abrade. The way to counter a specific removal type is to run no targets for it or way too many targets to handle anyway. While we are on the topic of Oketra's Monument, i see no reason not to run 4. The only downside is the legendary tag, but I can't think of a case where you wouldn't want it. With bestiary it becomes "Whenever you play a creature, put a 1/1 warrior token onto the battlefield, then draw a card", since the discount and extra price counteract eachother. Good stuff.
I guess I have to state my opinion on Shapers' Sanctuary and Authority of the Consuls. I don't agree with the point that bringing down the curve makes the deck more aggresive. When neither of the cards impact the board, it's a no-tempo play. Authority is great against mono-red but the purpose HeavyR presents is to delay every blocker your opponent plays by one turn. While I agree with HeavyR that you should have a way to deal with blockers, there are honestly tons of ways to do this. Angel of Sanctions removes a blocker twice, while also developing your own board. Surprisingly many decks don't play a lot of creatures early anyway. And you deal with counterattacks very well by having vigilance from Radiant Destiny and tokens form Oketra's Monument. I would say that blockers is not really your big concern with your current list. Shapers' Sanctuary is a little more tricky. Remember that it's only good if it draws 3+ card. Drawing one you might as well just play a card with cycling, and two cards for is fine but not really impressive. And this is if you draw it on turn one, wich you are unlikely to only do. Ask yourself: If I play this on turn six, can I still expect to draw at least 2 cards? If that's the case it's awesome. If not it's a lot worse than just running Dissenter's Deliverance or something like that.
I will move on to the maybeboard and some mainboard creatures now, since you asked for it. But first remember this is my opinion on your deck. Whether to run one creature or another comes down to three things: How much you should play it, how well it actually performs and how much you want to play it. If you are really competitive the last one doesn't apply but either way I can only supply you with the first one. Here are my thoughts either way ;)
Tocatli Honor Guard is amazing... If you were your opponent. But you are unlikely going to damage your opponent more than yourself. In fact, this is the kinda deck I would love to play Torpor Orb against, seems stupid to develop it yourself.
Maulfist Revolutionary is usually a surpricingly good card, and the 3/3 trample is pretty nice in itself. If you stack the triggers right you can even play it as a followup to a turn 2 Metallic Mimic to get a 5/5 trample. However, it seems very inconsistent especially with the . I would not play this.
Narnam Renegade fits into the same caterogy: pretty good when it works, but it doesn't so it's not good enough. You don't trigger revolt often enough to make it worth it, and your deck does not need a deathtoucher (no Pounce/Prey Upon/Nature's Way to abuse it).
I like the idea of Trueheart Duelist. It's a good blocker, but mostly it's a recurring creature and a token. If you include a playset you might wanna consider running a single Anointed Procession as well. By now you have enough good tokens to justify it.
Rhonas's Stalwart is a pretty cool idea, but the card is mediocre. If you want to play warriors, Bitterblade Warrior used to be a powerhouse in limited. You know what else used to be a limited powerhouse though? Gust Walker. It's sadly not a warrior but on every other level it's almost strictly better than Stalwart. This would be my choice for two-drops 9 and 10, after Metallic Mimic and Glory-Bound Initiate.
The reason to play Sunscourge Champion would be to gain life while playing creatures. Ask yourself: Why do I need 2-6 life? The answer would most likely be: I don't. There is another reason to play it, but that would require a different deck. However, if we for a moment pretend you already play 4x Oketra's Monument instead of two and also choose to play 4x Trueheart Duelist and 1-2x Anointed Procession it is very good. It helps avoid getting flooded with legendary Monuments, and it also has the potential to be doubled, wich is insane. This would be a big detour from your deck, so I'm not sure this is something you want. It's a great sideboard card though, because you might suddenly be in a spot where lifepoints are very dear to you.
Last note: some sideboard cards seem odd. Ahn-Crop Champion seems weak, even though it does help combat enchantment-removal by being a creature version of Radiant Destiny. Ashes of the Abhorrent is only good against Torrential Gearhulk since it also hurts your own angels. Engineered Might I already mention, and lastly Restoration Specialist seems bad. I get the idea, but you might as well just run some more of the enchantments you want back from the graveyard, and it's not a human nor a warrior.
The deck has improved greatly already, so great job! I hope my suggestions are less of an annoyance than a help, I know my comments tend to be on the long side ;)
3 days ago
Yeah actually the theory is creatures become reusable spells. Torpor Orb doesn't exist in my meta. Anyway if you get a few Baloth Null-style creatures on the board at once you just never run out of fuel and value all the opponents out of the game.
1 sec. another comment coming after I crunch some numbers on your deck. But also my deck is a solid 50$ cheaper than yours.
4 days ago
Darth_Savage: I never thought to use Torpor Orb, that certainly would be an interesting inclusion. I also toyed with U/B horrors and Hunted Horror, but I couldn't get it to work right, Torpor Orb could be the missing link to making it work. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm going to have to do some more research and playtesting.
4 days ago
This looks like an entertaining deck to pilot... When I first saw Thing in the Ice, I toyed with building a deck with it and Hunted Horror / Torpor Orb, with the Orb out you can flip Thing with a single spell since it never gets the ice counters and Hunted becomes a 7/7 Trample for 2... I never actually built the deck, but the idea still lurks (like a horror) in the back of my mind...
5 days ago
I have a bit of a good news / bad news response to your deck. Good news Flickerwisp is cheaper than Felidar Guardian and Restoration Angel has more utility. Bad news your deck folds to Torpor Orb since you lose all the "good stuff" and you aren't running any artifact destruction.
Also your mana curve is off, basically you have too many high cost spells and not enough mana ramp or early plays. Modern is thought of as a turn four format, this means that you need to be in a winning position on turn four. Right now your deck is slower than that and doesn't have answers to artifacts or enchantments like Blood Moon.
While the novelty of making an essentially creature based deck is fun, it isn't necessarily the best idea. For example a spell like Eerie Interlude is ideal for your deck design, probably more so than the 5 mana Venser, the Sojourner.
I hope this helps...
5 days ago
Hi! Nice deck! I love the Dreadnought in EDH so I thought I'd pop in here and see what's up :)
Have you considered Torpor Orb another way to get the Dreadnought out safely? It is a little slower but adds consistency. Perhaps run 1 fewer Ghaltas, as you kinda need a Dreadnought on the field to cast her, meaning you should probably win by then anyway. Also you can only have one out at a time so two in the hand is a waste. I'd run 3.
Have you ever considered splashing red for Fling?
Good luck! Fun deck, again!
5 days ago
continued from above