Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Creature — Human Shaman
: Add two mana in any combination of colours to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.
Formidable — , : Each player's life total becomes the number of creatures he or she controls. Activate this ability only if creature you control have total power 8 or greater.
|Have (2)||, metalmagic|
Printings View all
|Dragons of Tarkir (DTK)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
- descent of the Dragons and shaman of forgotten ways interaction
- Is Xenagos, God of Revels a Creature spell when cast if your Devotion to Red/Green is less than 7?
- Can shaman of forgotten ways mana ability be used in conjunction with mastery of the unseen manifest ability.
- Omnath and Shaman of Forgotten Ways
- Oath of Nissa
Latest Decks as Commander
Shaman of Forgotten Ways Discussion
3 weeks ago
ZendikariWol: By all means, there are certain decks that will love it. I was commenting that it acts as a backup to Isochron Scepter (albeit at the requirement for extra dorks/rocks) for the Scepter/Dramatic Reversal combo. It also allows you to use cards like Turnabout (assuming you have enough artifacts). And as DragonSliver9001 mentioned, Riku will probably love it (well, a typical 5-7 Riku deck at least).
The problem however (and part of the reason that people don't like the card - for your refernce DragonSliver9001) is that it falls prey to the multitool problem - it does a bunch of stuff, but none of it well and just ends up being bulky.
Don't get me wrong, I love mt leatherman as much as the next guy, but when I'm working on something specific, I will get the specific tool required. I feel like this card has the same kind of issue. I could run Lithoform Engine and could copy a creature spell of mine, but at 8 additional mana (assuming I'm playing and using it the same turn), or even at 4 additional mana, am I actually going to get enough bang for buck to warrant the card? And on top of that, if most of the creatures in my deck top out at 4-5 mana, how much have I slowed down the rest of my potentially last 2 turns just so I can make a second copy of Sun Titan for example? (who would be a good creature to copy).
And if I want to copy activated abilities, I can only do it once per turn without employing some sort of untap combo, so the activated ability has to be good enough to warrant paying 4 mana and then 2 additional mana, but not good enough that I could have just won the game with one activation of the ability anyway (e.g. Shaman of Forgotten Ways).
So on this, I think that Lithoform Engine just falls short on too many fronts because it tries to do too many things.
3 weeks ago
Profet93: oh fuck, I knew I forgot to address something.
- Geier Reach Sanitarium: Dig in a pinch, hilariously showcased as such on last night's stream for that purpose. Removes Thousand-Year Elixir/Emergence Zone from our hand when we need them in the graveyard. Last but not least, if Shaman of Forgotten Ways is exiled we have 0 ways of killing the table at instant speed, which this we can Mill the table and use Noxious Revival loops to reset the graveyard. When executing this combo we can set up a Veil and Allosaurus to further prevent interruptions, everything else can be re-looped at instant speed to reapply combo in the scenario of interaction. We loop this effect with Voyaging Satyr or looping Crop Rotation, Eternal Witness, and Noxious Revival.
As for the Nylea's Intervention I'm still on the fence about that one as I definitely prefer paying 2 mana rather than three. I'll get back to you on that one.
Quite thrilled we got a bolt land, that you guys can assume is going right in as it doesn't take up a slot and a 7 Mana hail mary is better than a land in a pinch. (Turntimber Symbiosis)
3 weeks ago
Profet93: To be honest, Strip Mine is not that prevalent in cEDH meta, at least in my experience. However, I wouldn't care too much if I lose something to any kind of hate. The deck is modal enough to shift gears. Ashaya, Soul of the Wild comes with its weaknesses, BUT it comes with a buttload strengths that far outweigh its downsides. This card also just supplements Temur Sabertooth by making the deck less reliant on him. Plus, we have Quirion Ranger (soon Scryb Ranger) to bounce it in a pinch.
I didn't know who you were on my discord, or I could've addressed all of these questions for you. Lmk who you are and I'd be happy to address any concerns or questions you might have.
Gemstone Caverns: Helps me EVERY time it's in my opening hand and I'm not first. It's a mild nuisance any other time. That alone is worth it and a VITAL part of the deck. We have a subpar general, we need all the speed we can get to keep up. This slot essential and most definitely optimal.
Blast Zone: The current density of colorless Mana is at the brink of overwhelming me with unusable Mana and I can't risk it for a symmetrical wipe that could hurt me unless I'm comboing out. It has applications and it COULD be useful, but I wouldn't run it in this version. Perhaps the budget version for sure. I'd put in Homeward Path before this though, as Gilded Drake is a constant threat.
Heroic Intervention: Love it, I want it, but I have Veil of Summer in that spot. I can't afford to remove something for a protection piece, even it's that great. However, if you find that your meta warrants this card, then by all means, run it. It's a helluva card and it's bound to help.
Duskwatch Recruiter Flip: Has been absolutely necessary and the second best outlet in the deck. When we get infinite we are in reality trying to assemble: Ulvenwald Tracker, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, and Thousand-Year Elixir. To do this we need Genesis Hydra, but we don't want to draw into the Elixir. Duskwatch Recruiter Flip gets us Genesis Hydra without drawing into it. Also allows me to re order the ENTIRE library to avoid certain pieces. It digs quite effectively and with Seedborn Muse it's insane. The cost reducer is actually quite great in early turns, since we can land drop and not cast anything, since we do it on other turns. It's a digger, outlet, cost reducer, and a fail-safe on a 2 mana creature.
1 month ago
So I recently got a few cards that I want to find room for in my Selvala deck, but can't figure out what to cut to slot them in.
1 month ago
I also run a Xenagos deck! Lol, what are the chances! I will try to keep cards under $15 per your suggestion....
Greater Good - BEST card you will ever add, if you listen to ANYTHING I say, this is it. Period.
Lurking Predators - With 1/3rd of your deck as creatures, this is like a sunbirds invocation that does something even if you pass the turn! Highly recomended!
Rancor - Nice to have, makes a 1/1 into a 6/4 trample with Xenagos. Providing trample cheaply and repeatedly is nice
The Great Henge - A bit over budget, but nice to have. Card draw, lifegain and ramp all in 1, usually for .
Gruul Signet - Nothing flashy, but another 2 mana ramp to help bring Xenagos out T3-4
Lifecrafter's Bestiary - Scry and card draw, not bad, definitely worth considering to help maintain gas
Decimate - 4 cards for 1? yes please! Can also target Xenagos if no other enchantments since he's indestructible.
Hull Breach - Mini decimate, still good!
Life's Legacy - Very useful, sometimes it sucks sacrificing a beater, but its sometimes very very needed, especially if you know they are holding up removal, they cant cast it in response since saccing is additional cost to cast
Nature's Lore - Ramp on T2 that can search up duals and brings the land untapped
Rishkar's Expertise - I rarely advise for risky cards, but the positive far outweighs the negative. Your biggest issue in this deck is getting 2 for 1ed, when you cast a draw/enchantment spell on your creature, they can remove it in response so you lose 2 cards to their one. But the potential of drawing 8 plus cards and casting a spell for free helps with this deck lack of tempo and card draw. I think it fits quite well
Skyshroud Claim - Nature's lore x2. While not necessary, can be helpful in keeping some tempo and ramp is crucial in a big beaters deck.
Berserk - A better unleash fury that can on occasionally kill opposing creatures when needed
Momentous Fall - Used in response to removal, removal can't be used in response to cast on the same creature
Return of the Wildspeaker - Used in response to removal
Lands...Obviously none of these are needed, but they make the deck slightly better are relatively cheap. Worth the investment, IMO. You have lots of room in your landbase given you are playing green and already run an ok amount of ramp. Adding even more ramp will really make your utility lands shine.
Dread Statuary - Manlands are helpful as they can be used for draw spells (see above instants/sorcerries) and can be equipped with rancor to deal damage unexpectedly.
Castle Garenbrig - Need that extra mana for that creature? I got you covered
Bonders' Enclave - Decent card draw
Blighted Woodland - Ramp
Myriad Landscape - See above
Raging Ravine - Manland
Sheltered Thicket - Least important of all lands, but nice to draw late game and can be fetched with nature's lore, farseek, skyshroud (although it will come in tapped)
Kessig Wolf Run - Has helped me win here and there. Shouldn't be overlooked, nice to have like the rest of these
Atarka, World Render - 12/12 double strike trample flying w/ Xenagos! Too good to pass up
Balefire Dragon - Deals with token decks and can clear a board while dealing heavy damage
Carnage Tyrant - HEXPROOF. I cannot tell you how many times hexproof has saved me in this deck. They cant use their removal they've been holding up, they can't counter it, and it has trample. Stats leave something to be desired a bit, but can pack a punch with Xenagos and is safe to use Rishkar's expertise on
Elder Gargaroth - New card which fuels card draw and has vigilance too!
Fierce Empath - Nice to find the beater you need
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - Ramp and provide trample!
Eternal Witness - Nice recursion of a beater or draw spell
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar - A beater that returns itself eventually and helps bring in other beaters (note: ETB triggers and the creature can attack a different opponent). Like a mini sneak attack
Inferno Titan - ETB and attack trigger. Not bad, I find it useful although you might not despite it being better than a lot of your other cards.
Kogla, the Titan Ape - ETB and attack trigger. Can be nice to bounce an eternal witness to give it indestructible.
Lifeblood Hydra - Even if they kill it, you get to draw something. I've found it useful, especially with berserk.
Nylea, Keen-Eyed - Helps make your creatures easier to cast, hard to remove, and helps you maintain gas. I'm still not convinced with it, testing it in my own build TBH. But thought it worthwhile to mention.
Pathbreaker Ibex - A beater that provides trample to other beaters. Puts in some decent work, especially with a rancor!
Reclamation Sage - Cheap artifact/enchantment removal on a creature (ex: lurking predators)
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Another cheap 2CMC ramp spell to ensure Xenagos T3-4
Savage Ventmaw - HUGE TEMPO! Attack and cast Rishkar's expertise or the Great Henge and then return of the wildspeaker/momentous fall/life's legacy or anything else is huge. Getting the attack and tempo in is VERY helpful as our deck struggles with tempo putting all the mana into a big creature.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways - Ramp and an alternate wincon should you need it
Siege Behemoth > Thorn Elemental
OVERALL: The deck is ok. I'm surprised how it has such a low CMC, but given your X spells. Once you replace those with 5+ CMC creatures, it will increase your AVG CMC to "normal". You want your AVG CMC to be around 4. Xenagos works as a sniper, you cast one big creature, give it haste and hope it doesnt eat removal. Given you spent all that mana on the creature, you don't do much else for the turn and then people usually swing at you because they are afraid of you casting another big creature out of nowhere.
As a result, having protection for them is crucial. In the form of heroic intervention, or another card out of budget such as Deflecting swat (which is SO powerful, counter counterspells, redirect targetted removal, targetted draw, targetted extra turns and more FOR FREE, so you can BLUFF INTERACTION). One more idea I'm thinking of is to replace Giant growth with Vines of Vastwood, similar function but provides protection as well. Also see Blossoming Defense for a similar function should removal/interaction is an issue in your meta as much as mine. Given you play against combo, they probably have interaction prior to them assembling their combo.
I got lots of ideas for cuts, so be sure to lmk what you think of each suggestion!
1 month ago
For those who're following the thread, Uzeep's questions were answered via Discord. However, the main thing I wanted to address in his comment is his mention of tutoring Shaman of Forgotten Ways. It is NEVER in our gameplan to tutor this, so we never care about where this card is until we've established Infinite Mana and an Outlet, only then do we look for kill loops which is also when the sky's the limit.
Due to his region certain cards were unavailable, so we also brewed up some changes to rectify this. His variation will be exactly the same with the following exceptions:
1 month ago
Thank you for the fast reply, man!
I really appreciate your comment and it kinda helps me out on understanding the line of play you're going with.
1) The Cloudstone replacement is perfect for me since locally not many people are selling it. I'll probably test more of the it out online to get the feel for the timing.
2) Regarding the Vivien, I treated it as a Mini-Yisan kind of effect? But I don't think the payoff is that great unless I'm going to win on that turn or tutoring a gamebreaking card like Shaman of Forgotten Ways.
I've sent you a Discord friend request as well. Name's Uzeep#2220. Hope to talk to you more there!
Do let me know what's your timezone as I think it's nearly 4 am now on your side. I'll try to accomodate to you on the timing ^^.
3 months ago
Omniscience_is_life, I'd like to respectfully disagree. Felidar is not generally a problem as it has to first resolve, second actually wait on the battlefield without interaction, and third ensure you meet it's criteria. At any point, any one of these can change unfavorably for you, making it just a vanilla 4/6. As for S.A., I can see how it gives someone a huge unfair advantage on T1, but this comes with the ire of the table. It will be removed quickly. The nature of the game will balance this out.
I understand the "social contract" to not interact with lands on a mass scale, because that's like a punch to the gut. You sit down to play a 30 minutes game, you get 1/2 of the lands out and suddenly you are back to turn zero. It is basically the cheap way of conceding. But realistically, the card itself isn't the issue, it's the user casting it. If that player has a history of cramming land wraths in literally every single deck they own, it's clear they do it to create a toxic environment where they want all of the power and control without any of the input and diligence.
However, that being said, if the player uses one or two in a single deck and it is there for a specific reason, that's not so much of that player being a toxic asshole, more so that deck is built to be overtly aggressive and challenging.
For example, in my Grixis Superfriends deck I run three land-lock methods. I do this so I can snuff out interactions with my Planeswalkers, since they are hard to protect.
But in my Lord Windgrace deck, and indeed all other decks, I don't even run a single land destruction spell, despite him being a beautiful synergy with cards like Strip Mine, which functions with Wrenn and Six, who is like a second Windgrace. Even my Oros, the Avenger deck who is quite literally built around "wraths matter", doesn't run a single one. I could easily turn all creatures into lands and wrath the boardstate entirely, as the newly creature-lands are non-white, but that is horrendously cheap and completely unnecessary.
So I feel it really depends on the deck the land wraths are in, and how frequently the player who builds these decks uses them.