|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Uncommon|
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Creature — Human Wizard
If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, you win the game instead.
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Laboratory Maniac Discussion
1 day ago
Package Cracker: Preordain
Package in no particular order:
- Laboratory Maniac (Core Piece)
- Gitaxian Probe (Immediate Deckout-Win)
- Pact of Negation (Spot Removal)
This leaves us w/ 2 slots remaining. Gush is out of the picture though; not enough Island to save my butt. & don't get me started on Lion's Eye Diamond ; I have both Yawgmoth's Will & Magus of the Will , & I'm not running either.
But if there are any dream combos Boros could ever have, I'd love to mention them; but not today. One of them IS a Doomsday Package; though for the sake of cEDH, I've yet to find a Hulk Combo; Protean Hulk isn't in colors...
...Any other Hulk combos out there that didn't even need to run ?
But at least I've 4/6 pieces. But the Card Draw Strict Minimum in a good pile is 6; ...I got 2. Not going to add the two Wills for multipliers, but I still need some kind of Mana Ramp (Optional.), & something cheap that can run 4 draw; which, is just an impossibility. But you know the rulings now; so what last 2 to add... BTW 5/6 Draw Rating won't work in anyway, there is an actual Primer for this BTW.
1 day ago
how about a Laboratory Maniac for just in case along with a Curiosity for niv mizzet firemind and Stuffy Doll is a must in nin. Infliction here is my nin just in case you see something else you might like.
1 day ago
@Yesterday: Damn. That might actually be useful; if I knew how the London Mulligan Works... Now back to 9 before the 100 card mark. About the Flashback ability: Would it be wise if I removed any others that lack in overall power? I mean, we got Echo of Eons , even self Exiling w/o that has stuff like Worst Fears & even Teferi's Protection .
Well, if you wanted to know what a Composite Prinny is; know that I've always wanted a battle to the death between both that & a Composite Moogle of Final Fantasy fame. Prinnies look like Penguins because that is how an individual becomes one; by having their soul stuffed into a shell of Demonic Life. Their favorite word is "Dood"; though I never trusted N1S America's Translation Accuracy. That's why I'm siding w/ Team Moogle, Kupo. At least PS1 Era-present SquareEnix seems consistent w/ translation.
My ideas for cuts?
- Spelltwine (Situational, especially I dun normally check Graves of others, remember, Gisa Sucks.)
Also for the Doomsday Package:
I've no idea what else to add...
2 days ago
@Yesterday: Huh. Well, another idea for a cut I guess; & yes, I did reconsider Mirror of Fate & it's back onto the deck. I suppose Myr Welder does deserve a cut, huh... Plotting to set a Doomsday package; w/ the Obligitory Laboratory Maniac , but I'll decide myself on this; sometimes Just Decking out is a better risk than... well, you know. I'd add Door to Nothingness , but that's maybe too much. Regardless, The Myr gets kicked.
2 days ago
What are composite prinnies?
My folders aren't very organised. [Not My Commander] is my only folder where I include other people's decks, and literally only just started doing that a few days ago. Yours is the second one I've added, so I don't really have any context for it yet. Rest assured I like the idea of your deck a lot.
Yeah, no love lost for the Worldgorger Dragon here either. It needs more than decent support in the form of reanimation and countermagic, and if your deck isn't all about that then it's not necessarily a great fit. I just mentioned it because it's an interesting card that cares about exiled stuff. I won't be offended in the least if you don't adopt a suggestion of mine, in case you're concerned about that. It's your deck, dude. I'm just here to help.
Lion's Eye Diamond is crazy expensive, money-wise. For that reason, I personally don't think it's ever worth running unless you're building at least a somewhat competitive deck, unless you just happen to have one handy. On the other hand, if you do only play casually with friends then they probably won't mind if you run a tournament-illegal version of Yawgmoth's Will – there are gold-bordered signed collector's versions available for significantly less than the regular cost (with Yawgmoth's Will on magiccardmarket ATM, it's €7.00 as opposed to the official card that's €23.95). They don't have a standard MtG back on them though, so you'll need to be using sleeves to use them.
So, Doomsday . If you don't like it, then don't run it. But as I understand it, a lot of those packages run 3-4 draw spells, Laboratory Maniac , and maybe some countermagic support. Considering this is what's in your deck ATM, I'll run with that. It's another all-in strategy and once again; if your Lab Maniac gets countered or killed before you draw the card, it pretty much means that you lose. I know a lot of people run Gitaxian Probe and other super-cheap draw spells in this package, the idea being to cast them all in the one turn and then win. If you want to stick with the Flashback theme, there's Faithless Looting and Scour All Possibilities and Echo of Eons which you already run, and then there's Deep Analysis and Think Twice . None of these is particularly expensive money-wise. Also, I know this is exactly the opposite of what you're looking for, but if Doomsday is to be a legit wincon for this deck then you might want to reconsider cutting Mirror of Fate . It's rarely an amazing card, but in this deck if things are going well, basically stands to serve as a second Doomsday, which is exactly what every Doomsday deck wants.
As for the landbase, how exactly did you want to revise it? There are a lot of interesting things to be done with lands, but I've usually just forgone those when it comes to 4+ colour mana bases (particularly if budget means running slow fetch lands like Bad River as opposed to Polluted Delta ). Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is good in any deck that uses black. I know you're not running any other Slivers, but Path of Ancestry is still a decent land in 5-colour decks that aren't high-end competitive - just read it as a Command Tower that enters tapped, which is still pretty great in non-competitive EDH. If you are okay with a couple of a taplands, Grand Coliseum is also great. On the other end, Tarnished Citadel is good for mana right now if you need it.
Now, for some suggestions on Flashback and other cards to cut.
I think you have just a couple too many recursion effects for instant and sorcery spells. Cards like Pull from the Deep are pretty decent because they get you two-for-one, as in you spend one card to gain access to two.
Conversely, something like Recoup probably isn't so good - it only gives you access to one card when you cast it, and you need to have the mana available to cast it that same turn. It's not an awful card, it has Flashback which both gives it more utility than for which I'm giving it credit and also fits this deck's theme. But you have an above-average amount of recursion spells and if you are actively looking for something to cut, this'd be something I'd recommend.
I think Sins of the Past is a decent card, but not great unless you have a number of really great bombs in your deck. If you don't have a fair number of high-cost, high-impact spells to target with it, it becomes an expensive 1-for-1. Similarly, Mystic Retrieval can be good when things are going your way and it sort of fits the theme, but in the early- to mid-game it can really suck to be left with only this card in your hand. When making cuts, you'll generally want to cut the cards that, at some points of the game, do straight-up nothing. Unfortunately, Mystic Retrieval kinda fits the bill here.
All Suns' Dawn is a great recursion spell, but less good when you lean away from a few colours. Considering you already have a number of other great spells in your deck, I don't know about this one in this scenario. I think basically, you'll want a few low-end and a few high-end recursion spells.
Some cards I would cut when push comes to shove —
5 days ago
Hey greyson161, thanks for the kind words. I wouldn't really consider my build of Nin to be a competitive take, necessarily. I've devoted a fair bit of the deck to pulling Stuffy Doll from my library, as his strange mechanic sort of breaks the balance inherent in Nin's ability, allowing you to draw cards and deal direct damage simultaneously. This is a bit cutesy and definitely way too disruptable/expensive to be considered a cEDH wincon, but it makes me smile!
That said, this deck definitely includes a number of ways to create "infinite" mana, many of which are cEDH Staples. Grim Monolith + Power Artifact , Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth , Metalworker + Staff of Domination , and Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron can all accomplish that feat, and that is a mighty tool indeed in this deck. Not only is it a one-hit KO with the aforementioned Stuffy Doll interaction, but boat-loads of mana can be translated very simply into boatloads of cards. Usually I'm dropping an ETB creature, cashing in its value, then slamming it for as much damage as I can afford in order to refil my hand. There are a number of cards that cause damage/loss of life when I draw, including both Niv Mizzets, Psychosis Crawler , and - a bit more indirectly - The Locust God . I also run Blightsteel and Lightning Greaves for good measure, and Laboratory Maniac is a great wincon when I'm over 100 mana. Oh, and even though I find the combo distateful, this deck also runs Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts , because both halves of that combo are independently excellent in this deck.
Hope some of this was helpful/interesting! For my part, I think more competitive builds of Nin are less creature-heavy and run a bit more control/wheel effects. The Spike Feeders YouTube channel often features a pretty spicy build of Nin, which you can see pop off in this episode: https://youtu.be/TVWocKbLg1A Of course, this was before we lost Paradox Engine (RIP). Happy brewing!
6 days ago
@ Natux Hey there! FurFur does indeed opt into the storm route and his version and the Melt Banana version are both very optimized toward the overall meta and have been consistently potent performers over many hundreds of games. I tend to agree that I think a bit more tuning could get the deck to do what it does even more consistently which is how I wound up with my variant on it.
In high level cEDH win cons like Laboratory Maniac and Aetherflux Reservoir , while commonly used, are generally considered poor win conditions as they add dead card draws to the deck and running as many "live" cards as possible tends to result in more wins per 100 games played. It's why I rarely ever run those types of win cons in any deck I play for competitive purposes and instead usually just rely on reaching an infinite position before looping interaction or utility pieces I would already otherwise be running as the win conditions. In my variant I simply loop cards like Windfall , Wheel of Fate , Wheel of Fortune , and Praetor's Grasp infinitely to deck opponents. No "dead card" win condition slots that way and the consistency is markedly improved because of it. It's still a deck with dramatically more cards that are bad in opening hands than typical Sultai PS shell lists, but when compared to other fast, aggressive combo decks it had slightly less.
In the cEDH meta most of the fast combo decks that can reliably win by turn 3 aren't actually very good at being able to manage top level win rates. The more card slot efficient Sultai PS shells are simply too capable of preventing that type of strategy with access to the highest quality cheap interaction spells around. This kind of pushes decks like DD/Shimmer Zur, Flash Hulk, and certainly Yidris into a meta space where these decks rather have to go all in and hope the superior opposing decks don't have an answer and that's why my list is tuned to do precisely that. It goes big, or it goes home, and in a few hundred some odd games it's managed a fairly nice 27-28% win rate. Right on par with the other fast combo decks that generally win in the 25-29% range, but definitely less eye popping than the 35%+ some of the Sultai PS shells pull off. There really isn't a point to trying to play a Yidris deck in any fashion except as an all in combo race deck, other decks do the Mid Range Control or Stax Control styles much better and you'd be better off playing one of them if you were looking to win after turn 3. It certainly sucks to see Yidris get Swords'ed and know you're essentially a spectator in the match, but that's kinda the price you pay when you bring Yidris to a table. It's all about being as consistently fast as possible to combo off before any one has a chance to acquire answers or combo off themselves.
As far as Wheel of Fate goes this card is an absolute must run for an optimized Yidris list. It's simply too good at what it does and proper sequencing of cascade triggers and spell casts can usually mean it's cast-able on demand after you cycle out all the 0 cmc spells in the deck when cascade chaining. This is also why my list is running more than a few ways to stick it back into the deck. The ability to gas back up on demand and generate net mana positive cascade loop cycles is what allows the deck to storm off in the first place. Granted this was much easier in my variant with PE, so the banning of that card is going to require some fine tuning to make the list fully functional again. No matter what, that list lost a significant amount of consistency in it's cascade chain cycling due to the PE ban. I'm unlikely to run that deck for a while until I figure out some way to solve the issue in testing.
When it comes to the mana base for that list it was pretty difficult to tune it and it took a lot of time tweaking what dorks were being run in combination with what lands and what mana fixers to make it not only super consistent about getting Yidris down on turn 2, but also be able to function during the cascade chaining portion. In the end I realized that getting Yidris down was a lot more important as most mana issues after starting the cascade chain get solved by the very process of cascade chaining and pulling all those 0 cmc mana rocks out of the deck, so the mana base and dorks were eventually tuned to be as consistent as possible about getting Yidris down turn 2 which resulted in a fairly even split. Most 4 and 5 color decks are actually super consistent though because of all the fetch and duals they run. Typically about 15 or more lands that wind up being run count as "comes into play untapped for any color" lands in terms of functionality and this means the odds of having one in your opening hand are right on the money at 1/6. Never really have issues on that note in most 4+ color decks for cEDH. Fetch lands are OP. Just make sure to always run at least 28 lands for competitive play (and this is usually paired with a dork/rock count of 16 for 44 total mana sources and a high degree of consistency).
As far as your list is concerned, its pretty nifty, but from a competitive veiwpoint it has some issues that will cause it problems. It's too slow to be able to race against other race decks despite running the most all in race commander in the entire format, and yet lacks the card quality and grind ability to stick it out in longer matches with control decks. It's kind of in this middle zone where it doesn't quite do any of the things it's trying to do well enough to win against top tier cEDH meta decks at a much better than 20-22% rate, and that might be a generous estimate. It'd likely be best to tune it to do it's thing as fast as possible and eschew pieces that don't jive with that game plan, or transfer the shell to a different commander and tune it to a more Mid Rangy type of gameplan.
6 days ago
Nice deck! Have you considered cards like Shrieking Drake , Temur Sabertooth , or Dream Stalker paired with Peregrine Drake ? Not only is it an infinite mana engine, but it also gives you access to more effects that allow you to bounce your permanents and repeat their ETBs. If you have access to infinite draw, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and Laboratory Maniac are solid too.
Here's the link to my list. I built it as a sort of toolbox combo deck.
Laboratory Maniac occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.04%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.08%
UR (Izzet): 0.74%
WUB (Esper): 0.33%
UBR (Grixis): 0.62%