|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Duel Decks: Blessed vs. Cursed (DDQ)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2014 (C14)||Uncommon|
|Premium Deck Series: Graveborn (GRV)||Uncommon|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Flashback—Sacrifice three creatures. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
|Have (6)||scotchtapedsleeve , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , Hellsing , , ,|
|Want (3)||corbinmayne , Belin_drov , Cutlass12|
Dread Return Discussion
2 days ago
Here is why I have chosen these cards: Child of Alara - This is my Commander - This is Sakura. Alara reads "When Child of Alara is put into a graveyard from play, destroy all nonland permanents. They can't be regenerated. Now we all know how much it sucks to have to worry about the threat of a board wipe being on the field - so I have chosen to put 1 restriction on Alara. In the series during The Final Judgement, Sakura essentially has her memories wiped and life as she knows it as a Cardcaptor never existed. This only ever happens to Sakura ONCE. For this reason, I am putting a restriciton on her, that I can only choose for her to go to the Graveyward ONCE per game. This means timing of this is crucial. Other reasons for why I have chosen Alara and the Commander: - She is a Child, like Sakura was when she encountered the cards - You will need recursion as a key element in your deck building to ensure you can continue to use Alara. Sakura always has access to her cards, so having the ability to pull things back from the grave fits in perfectly with that aspect.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow - This is Shadow. Has shadow in the name as well as gives you the ability to draw a card and have your opponents lose life based on its CMC
Voice of All - Voice. The cards title is the essence of what the Voice Card does.
Tishana, Voice of Thunder - Thunder(1). I chose this card 1) because it has Thunder in the name but also because the artwork is of Tishana who is controlling the 'thunder' (but is actually water) Tishana would be Sakura. This card allows you to have no max hand size - which isnt an essential element to this deck but again- access to all cards. She allows you to draw a card and her 'Thunder' is as strong as you can make it. Just as it would be is CCS.
Thunderbolt - Thunder(2). Some cards are too hard to not have in when they fit so perfectly with a CCS card. This card speaks for itself as to why I would choose it as Thunder
Soul Manipulation - Illusion(1) My first thoughts when i though about Illusion as a MTG was making something appear as something it isn't - Like a Morph card. Another thought I had, which i feel fits more correctly with CCS is that Illusion would appear in the disguse of what that person feels. Manipulating the space in front of them so see something else. This just lead me on key word search for Manipulation and this seemed to be a reasonable result. Also allows for graveyard recursion.
Illusionary Servant Illusion(2). Has Illusion in the name. Is essentially just another creature.
Maze of Shadows Maze. Has maze in the name and allows for a 'Fog' on target creature.
Etali, Primal Storm Storm. Has storm in the name, is a big creature. Storm is an aggressive Card. Etali, feels just that. In the series Saoryan became the first Cardcaptor to control Storm, essentially taking the card away from Sakura. So, Etali, Primal Storm, will take others cards away from them.
Mirror Mockery Mirror. Mirror had always been used to make a copy of Sakura (until Clear Card) but Mirror was never the real Sakura. So I searched for something that would create of copy of a creature that wouldnt become a permanent. Essentially this would need to be used on a card with an ETB trigger or with Haste.
Blood Mist Mist (1). Has mist in the name. Originally i was thinking of a creature that had deathtouch as everything Mist touches gets destroyed. Instead I went with a card that has Mist in the name and allows for Double Strike.
Dread Return Return. I know from the start that any of the Time element related CCS Cards would have be graveyard related. I felt this was the best of my options and has Return in the card name.
Dragon-Style Twins Twin. CCS Twin Card are 2 twins who fight in unison. This creature has Twin in the Title, The art is of twins about to engage in combat and has Double Strike.
Valley Dasher Dash. Dash is a super fast card that panics when scared or flees. Valley Dasher has Haste and has to attack each turn if able. I think that is a pretty close similarity in the fact that this card is "always on the go"
Sandcrafter Mage Sand. Art work is of a Mage casting Sand Magic. That alone fits in the CCS.
Carpet of Flowers Flower. Im not gonna lie originally i was going to go with Flower / Flourish simply because the card is called Flower however, Carpet of Flowers allows for colouring fixing if used against an island deck. An essential element in a 5 colour deck.
Pit Fight Fight. I always knew what style of card I wanted for Fight. This seemed like a reasonable option.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest Silent. Has silent in the name. In the art Shu Yun is in a temple. A quiet place. Just like the museum was in the series. This card has the ability to allow additional damage.
Snowhorn Rider Snow. Besides from running One snow covered land. This seemed like the next best option.
Agony Warp Little. There are no LEGAL cards with little in their name. The little card is known for making things smaller. Whilst my BIG card does not currently do this in reverse. I felt Agony Warp was a good alternative.
Wall of Wood Wood. A gentle card that does essentially nothing but defend. My RAIN card was originally going to be a card that allows walls to attack as if they have no defender but I am not running enough walls in this deck for it to be worth while. instead I went with once that could be used with Wall of Wood being on the field or any other card.
Angelic Shield Shield. Makes your creatures tougher- giving them more protection. Allows for Graveyard recursion.
Ashiok, Dream Render Dream. Has dream in the name. Looks somewhat similar to the CCS Dream Card Art. Allows for Graveyard control.
Drana's Emissary Sweet. There are NO CARDS with Sweet in their titles. Sweet only appears in flavour text. Out of all the options. This seems the most beneficial.
Goldenglow Moth Glow. Only card with glow in its name. it is similar to CCS Glow Card and allows for life gain. A gentle card that is really - Just a 'pretty' card just like in CCS.
Spirit Loop Loop. Has loop in the name. Allows for life gain and the card itself, essentially in undying... just like a loop.
Luminescent Rain Rain. The only card with Rain in its title that seemed some what in resemblance to the CCS Card and could still work with WOOD.
Avenger of Zendikar Create. Create is a card that creates creatures. Avenger seemed to be a good fit. Avenger being the book and the plant tokens being the creatures that Create makes. This card will be changed out for Deep Forest Hermit(UNRELEASED) which creates squirrels and works with your graveyard.
Sword of the Animist Sword. Allows you to attached a sword to target creature and allows for ramping.
Archangel's Light Light. Originally I wanted a card that was similar to Dark- just like in the series. It was hard to find any that that worked that included the words light and dark. There is the potential that the 2 cards could become One single card in future, as in the series the 2 cards must always be used in unison. This card has light in the name and has graveyard recursion.
Erase Erase. REMOVAL. No further explanation needed.
Floating Shield - Float. Has float in the name. Allows you to choose WHITE as the protection colour without it being removed from enchanted creature.
Pathway Arrows Arrow. We never for to see much about how Arrow works as a card when being controlled. But we do know that it shoots arrows. So, this card has Arrow in the name, the artwork is of a bow and arrow and is an equipment allowing equipped creature to tap to deal a damage to another creature - almost as if it were shooting an arrow.
1 week ago
To answer your questions:
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win? I'm in no way on the move to play a combo. Plus a 4 card combo in my opinion is maybe a bit janky to pull off. I don't have the feeling I miss the mana/ramp to include Pitiless Plunderer . Chainer, Izoni and Savra all stand on their own and perform a lot of work.
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ? Short answer? No. Craterhoof Behemoth is a typical go wide card. Most of the time I have around 3-4 creatures on the board. Craterhoof would do nothing for my deck.
I really liked your inclusion of Mindslicer . I just pulled one from my box last night and was planning to put it into the deck. Sheoldred, Whispering One had been on my radar for a while. Well credits for that one go to you, my friend. ;-) I had it in my binder and when you mentioned it I looked at it and went why not! Let's at least give it a try. Sheoldred, Whispering One is an all star and I would always run it in any meren deck.
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards. For now I don't have the feeling I'm running too much removal. The goal of the deck is pretty much winning the grind. So wiping the board + destroying and removing stuff is the main goal of this deck. I need to playtest waaaay more to figure out if I run too much. To look closer at the cards you mentioned. If I need to cut Damnation would be the first one. I just always have the feeling it's a welcome card to draw. Toxic Deluge is brilliant and it's an early boardwipe to disrupt our opponents. Living Death serves more as a reanimation card, then it is a boardwipe. My creatures are most of the time in the graveyard. It's basically a win con on it's own.
Could I make an argument that Imperial Seal is superior to Final Parting ? Would you include both? What would you cut? Superior, absolutely. It's basically another Vampiric Tutor . Unfortunately I'm not made of money and I simply don't own that card. That being said, most of my games I got to play Final Parting. And with Meren out on the table I would rather draw into a Final Parting then a Imperial Seal . Playing Final Parting means I get one card to my hand (any) and one creature to the battlefield at the end of our turn. That's where the power comes in from this tutor! Next to this. Imperial Seal is sorcery speed. So if we have no draw engine, we need to wait an entire turn. But if you have one laying around, I would just playtest them both a bit. See wich one feels better.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland? I love fetches and normally I stuff my deck full with them :). But in this deck I don't have the feeling I'm missing them too much. I have 5 decks and 3 of them run all the fetches they can. One is Omnath, Locus of Rage (dont think I need to explain). Queen Marchesa a control deck, so it's important I get my colors and shuffle effects. This deck is more, if I have green and black I'm good to go. The fetch is more there to go to my shock. If I had more lands that gave double color and that I could fetch I would run 1 more. In my opinion, 3+ color decks and decks that want their decks shuffled benefit more of fetches. It's a personal preference.
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient? Earthcraft I'm still in doubt on as well. I mentioned it at Control_Train as well. The card often feels a bit underused. But early game it helps to get my bigger dudes out faster. The card is not in there to be super abused since we often only have about 3-4 creatures on the field. So yeah you might be right on that. For now it stays in but it's on the shitlist.
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said? I totally agree with his argument. I own one copy of Gaea's Cradle and I run it in Omnath, Locus of Rage where it does all the work and really keep the engine going. In meren we probably will have a cradle tapping for 2-3 lategame. And tbh we don't need the ramp. Cradle is a super nice card, but it's a bit of the same argument why I don't run Craterhoof Behemoth
You didn't follow Control_Train's lead and cut Dread Return or Soul of the Harvest . As we speak I have my deck in front of me ;) And those 2 are laying outside of the deck. Now just checking what to put back in. Solemn Simulacrum is on it's way into the deck I think. Since he ramps and draws cards, but as you just mentioned I only run 13 basics and with also 2 other creatures who do so he might not be the strongest pick. I also laid out my curve and Birthing Pod might be on its way back in. Phyrexian Obliterator might also going back in, since he is a nice target to recur at 4 mana for a 5/5. It also stops people from attacking you. If you have any other good suggestions I would love to hear them!
What would you cut if you added Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves ? Do you not have issues with Meren getting removed? If you really want to play a sol ring maybe Dread Return ? Honestly I never really had the feeling I missed not having a sol ring in a deck. Lightning Greaves is maybe a good addition. The thing is with Sylvan Safekeeper he is recurrable. Lightning Greaves will definately get destroyed. Or at least in my meta people love blowing up boots/greaves. If you really want to play it, I think Prowling Serpopard if you run it now?
Dark Confidant in theory seems very dangerous in a deck with as high as a mana cost as this one. Am I way off base? The thing what makes Dark Confidant so good and for example Dark Tutelage absolute trash, is the fact that it's a creature. He is the one example where you don't want him to stick around. Enchantments stick around, creatures don't. Early game he is a powerhouse and an awesome target to dump in a meatgrinder after a few turns!
1 week ago
Ripwater, I really liked your input on Control_Train's Meren page.
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win?
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ?
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland?
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient?
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said?
1 week ago
Ahhh, thanks so much, HashMasta! Zulaport Cutthroat is great. I run him in my paper version. Dread Return , Victimize , & Whisper, Blood Liturgist are all good cards, but they're redundant with Chainer's ability, so I think I'd rather use those card slots on other effects. I love the idea of using Baleful Force instead of Bloodgift Demon . I'll swap them out right now.
1 week ago
Baleful Force i would do instead of blood gift demon cause its cheaper (price wise) and a bigger creature
I always love a good chainer build so it kinda caught my eye to see a budget version. Chaining together a kill streak is nowhere near budget but its one of my favorite decks if you wanna have a look
4 weeks ago
Thank you for the suggestions. I added a Stax section in the maybeboard for people who want to go for a more staxy version of the deck. The only cards I don't really agree with are No Mercy because it kills off Belzenlok, making it harder to Dread Return , and Nether Void because we lock ourselves out of the game specially because we are not running ramp cards like Sol Ring .
1 month ago
Thank you CyborgAeon for the comments. I'm still debating about the stax lands, (I was specially thinking about Glacial Chasm ) because they slow down the plan. Regarding Bone Picker it's more of a plan B, if any player has a forest you don't need to cast it (you have 3 creatures already to flashback Dread Return ( Demonlord Belzenlok , Hollow One and Deepwood Legate )), even if there are no creatures in play you can always hold priority when using Phantasmagorian 's ability to delve for Sultai Scavenger . I do like the new spoiled card though. Don't know if it's worth a spot because of the life loss. I added the details to the decklist
1 month ago
Undead Gladiator springs immediately to mind: he helps you dump big reanimation targets into your graveyard, smooths your early draws with his cycling. To put him in, I'd probably cut Risen Executioner , who seems like a non-bo with your suite of graveyard-fillers. If your deck is working the way it should, it'll probably be too expensive to cast the Executioner from your graveyard.
Dread Return occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%