|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Duel Decks: Blessed vs Cursed||Uncommon|
|Premium Deck Series: Graveborn||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Flashback—Sacrifice three creatures. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
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Dread Return Discussion
5 days ago
Hi, thanks for the response. Dread Return is just a copy of Diabolic Servitude to improve the chance of getting grave cast back, which leads into Weaponcraft Enthusiast which can be used to flash back Dread Return. Weaponcraft Enthusiast also works to sack into Demon of Death's Gate. But it was just something I was messing around with, Im still pretty new to deck making so it is definitely going to have things that don't really work as well as they could.
1 week ago
Compare that with Worldgorger combo where it's so fragile a Swords to Plowshares sets you back to having no permanents. For Grenzo at least, it might be better to go with some "safer" infinite mana combos, especially since Grenzo doesn't need mana of any color the way Lyzolda does. Stuff like: Basalt+Rings combo, Nooze+Palladium Myr+Pili-Pala, Rings+Voltaic Key, ... Yeah, there aren't a lot of infinite mana combos in Black/Red, are there?
That said, I don't think they're incompatible, since infinite activations of Grenzo make a lot of plays that already use the cards in the Doomsday pile. For example:
Kiki-Jiki, mirror breaker comes out with Grenzo at 2, Zealous Conscripts comes out at 3. Usually you'll just be able to go off with that.
- Or if you don't have access to Doomsday:
- Or if you don't have access to Kiki+Conscripts:
- If you get an infinite combo before casting Grenzo you can also put infinite counters on him, and just get every creature out of your deck.
Even still though, infinite mana combos are always going to be 2 to 3 cards, while Doomsday is a single card. This gives Doomsday a much lower threshold of necessary tutors and set-up, and means that Doomsday should probably remain plan A for the deck.
1 week ago
Sorry for the double post, but something just flashed in my mind... Do you think a similar list with Grenzo, Dungeon Warden as the commander could work? I mean, it would certainly not be as glass canon as your list currently is, probably not as fast either, but I think it could still compete...
This idea came when I was wondering which commander to pick instead of the Scorpion God. Grenzo still is a good mana sink, because with infinite mana, we could go on and put our entire deck in the yard. Sure, it would be weak to grave hate, but I will not stop brewing only because of this because a lot of decks in the format are weak to grave hate and can still compete.
I think running Grenzo as the commander would lead to some pretty interesting options. The commander would not be as dead as it is with Lyzolda, the Blood Witch. We could cast our commander early on to get value out of activated ability, even if it is simply filling the graveyrad (the ability reminds me of how Thrasios, Triton Hero can be used when we are not comboing off).
Early game, we simply draw, filter and interact (being in B/R is a good place to be for those things), and we can also ramp using some artifact mana (fast rocks, talisman...). Grenzo is helpful at that point. Mid game, I would say this is where we try to combo off, with the Worldgorger Dragon infinite mana combo. This would put our entire deck in the graveyard, allowing us to have all of our creatures and Dread Return, allowing for some reanimation shenanigans and why not a Necrotic Ooze + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker sort of combo (not sure yet on the combo finish).
The thing is, imagine we get the combo locked, by some exile or anything... Let's say with your current decklist, Worldgorger Dragon gets exiled... What will you do? That is where Grenzo, Dungeon Warden comes in. He can not simply fill your graveyard to prepare combo, he can also give some value by reanimating creatures to disrupt opponents, such as Magus of the Moon, Sire Of Insanity... (depending on the X vaule, that is). Also, since we are already running a reanimation package, it would be easier to fall back on this strategy even with bigger creatures...
I would like to know what you think about this before conbtinuing to brew, because I would really like for Grenzo to be able to compete a little outside of Doomsday!
1 week ago
I love your title for the deck.
1 week ago
Strongarm Tactics is a personal favorite for me in decks like this. Coupled with Dread Return and some cheap fodder, you can get some amazingly powerful creatures out early and cheap, while hurting your opponents.
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
Have you ever considered Sword of Light and Shadow?