|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masters Edition (MED)||Common|
|Ice Age (ICE)||Uncommon|
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As an additional cost to play Fire Covenant, pay X life.
Fire Covenant deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures.
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Fire Covenant Discussion
1 week ago
I currently run a Sunforger package in a 4 colour blood deck and have found Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile and Chaos Warp to be enough value by themselves (there are a few red/green cards too but you can't run them).
Fire Covenant is also a good choice depending on your meta.
Secret tech though is Lapse of Certainty.
1 week ago
Hey! I actually don't use tappedout too much at all... I accidentally misclicked the deckcycling thing which might've caused the deck to appear :\
Personally, I actually did manage to make the entire Hokori, Dust Drinker/Armageddon deck with faster acceleration. I cut all the random fatties and went for the linvala/elesh +living plane plan! I played that deck for a good 20~months (all the way up till December 2016), and moved onto Derevi, Empyrial Tactician... (mostly because I already had a lot of expensive bombs in selesnya colours and I felt Derevi was going to be pretty awesome in my playgroup!) By the time paradox engine was spoiled, I had already bought Tropical Island and Tundra and was past the point of no return. I think Sisay is a better deck against slower, more casual metas (stax + fatties, not the storm version). She's fun to play, and somewhat open ended because there are a multitude of different lines of play, so I've really enjoyed her. My meta is comprised of an array of decks, most of which are fast combo (flash hulk/gitrog), mixed in with a couple of control decks in the mix because we play team oriented games as opposed to free for all games where the game ends much faster. I am the only stax/resource denial player in my meta.
I think overall, my thoughts on Sisay are that her locks are abit softer then Derevi even though she has alot more steam when she is left unanswered. She's great when she can untap even once because of the threat of Hokori decks, but cards that I've personally found very difficult to power through were Humility, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Bribery (Elesh Norn/Linvala) or an opponents Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite/Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Although these problems are hardly solved in Derevi, I can play Sisay if i walked into a random store in a random city, but Derevi has a 50/50 chance of being a terrible deck/fantastic bullet depending on who sits across the table from me. Her ability to handle midrange-ey decks while being a stax commander is quite unique outside of her and Selvala, both break parity a little bit differently I guess, depends on which you prefer.
Wew. With all that said, I have tried a couple games with the new storm Sisay deck by shamelessly net-decking the list off from the EDH discord/labmaniac lists. Unfortunately I did not have a great experience with Fire Covenant or Toxic Deluge type effects. Also because of the number of counterspells in my playgroups, sometimes Sisay getting countered twice means I really have to suck it up and play really slow games without doing much at all, especially in cases where she gets cast using fast mana and I have no other way to get cards quickly without getting lucky and drawing a great tutor. I've always enjoyed your lists, back then I believe you used to play Insist and Savage Summoning, and I was a big fan (sorry if this wasn't you, but I think it was? There weren't many Sisay decks on tapped out prior to the printing of Paradox Engine). How has Paradox been for you? Is this version of Sisay better in a pure T1 meta? I was really revisiting these lists to see if she was worth a revisit!
Hopefully the wall of text isn't too much for you, I've never really had a conversation with someone about the older Sisay decks because everyone is so obsessed with the fast combo version of Sisay now. I guess doing the Sisay combo IRL is also very cumbersome; playing side events at a GP while having to demonstrate the Cloudstone Curio+Reki, History of Kamigawa+random cheap legendary is a straight nightmare because they have to cut your deck for you to draw, then continue searching with sisay when you begin the paradox combo etc. Its a major reason why I have not returned to Sisay for extensive testing. Hopefully you have some insight for me!
2 weeks ago
Have you considered something like Static Orb into the deck? It works very well with Authority of the Consuls and friends, and since your deck thrives in long, grindy games, it might work out in your favor.
I'd also rather play Toxic Deluge than Rout, personally. It deals with indestructible creatures, and can be tailored to your needs. I'm also a fan of Fire Covenant in general, when you really need that instant-speed targeted wrath.
3 weeks ago
This list perform very well even in a 1vs1 (+1 for me!)...But I'm thinking about other ways to discard cards. e.g. If i play against a Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon player, I will found myself with a lot of dead cards: Choke, Contamination, Carpet of Flowers. Maybe i've presented the worst scenario, but you know... it's a possible scenario. Have you considered to run Torpor Orb or Hushwing Gryff to turn off the nasty interactions of Pestermite and similar with your Winter Orb? End of your turn. Opponent casts Pestermite and tap Winter Orb. He untaps all of his lands. Aaaand most important question: How do you make the way to Tana, the Bloodsower to dealt damage to the opponent? Yes, Fire Covenant is a blast, but i'm also thinking to Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist.
3 weeks ago
Thank you for the feedback. Unfortunately Intuition and Necropotence are also banned in Leviathan. Fire Covenant, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Dack Fayden are great, I'm trying to find them to add to the deck. Land's you've mentioned are also good addition.
Today I've get a little bit depressed cause I've realised that all shock lands that I'm using can kill me during Worldgorger combo :( I didn't think about this before and no-one have noticed this. That's a shame cause I can't afford original dual lands now.
Beside of this shock lands misunderstood the Breya was great in 1v1 and 2v2. I have won most of the games, with ratio per FNM like 3 won, 1 lost. Most of the lost games was because of the flood. I feel like I'm running to many lands, maybe I could cut one or two.
3 weeks ago
I have no idea what Leviathan is all about... but,
I guess Necropotence is banned?
If you're missing a tutor you could use Intuition, it's alright for getting 3 of the same thing, and can sometimes set up salvagers-LED if you have a reanimation spell already. You can also try Dark Petition, which is a little slow, but is real good at setting up a mid/late-game doomsday.
I'd look to adding Fire Covenant and Dack Fayden, they're real good. I also really like JVP, which has already been mentioned. I don't really like Reanimate unless you have a stronger reanimation focus or some kind of combo with snapcaster or something.
You said you were playing this in a 2vs2 environment... how has that been?! I'm curious!
1 month ago
sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.
You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.
I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.
I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.
Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.
Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.
And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.
Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.
As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.
I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.
I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.
When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.
As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).