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6 days ago
benettnash what I mean is that this specific stax build is not oppressive enough to actually prevent a whole table from doing anything. I even struggle to do so with my UW list and that is much more straightforward without any of the fancy planeswalkers and proliferate stuff. Of course, a completely casual deck would be crushed, but it can't reliably shut down a table with 3 other players who at least tried to make their decks as competitive as possible. It's not even a question of the budget, it's rather about including enough disruption and cards that ruin competitive decks. For example Suppression Field is a cheap way to destroy a deck with lots of fetchlands and other activated abilities that are necessary for it to work. Choke can take a player out of the game if it resolves, same for Stony Silence and Null Rod. I play a deck with Rhonas the Indomitable which has no artifact speed but a shitload of mana dorks and disruption. It depends on the start but it can hold against our Arcum dagsson. On wednesday I had a dmg output of over 60 with one attack around turn 6 and it didn't take overly expensive cards for that. It's just the way you build the deck, if you include 3 more mana elves/artifact hate or three unnecessary fatties.
We don't often have new players here anyway and the last who started playing commander have quickly adapted their decks and went looking for good deals to get some necessary expensive staples. One of the newer players checks a local online selling platform every day and already got stuff like foil doubling season and foil mox opal for 60 euro in total...we are all around 30 years old and can invest a bit in the game on a regular basis. I also try to give advice on deckbuilding and on how to counter certain strategies with simple methods.
Losing to stax or a fast combo deck can be an experience which makes you reconsider your card choices or buying/selling plans, especially for newer players. Usually everyone thinks his deck is good, until they face something that seems unbeatable. Seeing the flaws of one's own deck is a great motivator in my opinion...of course you don't want to experience that for several hours straight, that's why I have other deck types to play as well
6 days ago
1 week ago
Oh I also forgot to include more suggestions regarding your land. Since you're mono-blue, you should run a Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Oboro, Palace in the Clouds. The reason being is that they won't be hit by stuff like Choke and they offer a little extra utility. For example, you can bounce back Oboro with Mutavault after tapping it first to add another blue mana to your mana pool as long as you haven't played a land on that turn. Minamo can be used to protect Kira from non-target removal as well. You should also consider cards like Tectonic Edge or Ghost Quarter, which one you decide on is really just dependent on your meta. I wouldn't necessarily mainboard them, but land hate is helpful. If you're thinking about the 8seas route, then those cards have a lot more value and can disrupt your opponent's manabase even further, especially with Tectonic Edge.
1 week ago
Yeah, I feel you: I've built decks in the past, only to dismantle them and use the pieces for other decks because they just didn't perform as expected. It's happened more often than I would like, so I don't like to take the risk, either.
I think I've mostly adjusted the the non-land cards according to your specifications, but I'm pretty sure that I messed up along the way, since I somehow still have Verduran Enchantress: this process has gotten a little confusing since my actual deck and my deck list are at different stages of completion, and I've been updating them both as I go. One more tweak should correct the problem: it's my fault for asking about the inclusion of Choke and Nevermore at the tail-end of our conversation.
1 week ago
That's pretty much all I can think of anyway. Thanks so much, man!
I was kind of thinking of an interesting mechanic to build a deck around. I remember my first legacy deck had a synergistic soulbond mechanic that I had a lot of fun with.
There's three basic types of players: a Timmy, a Johnny and a Spike.
Spike derives enjoyment only from winning, and his decks are built with the simple goal of being the best.
Johnny is a creative player, who uses the game of Magic as a form of self-expression and wins with obscure cards that most people overlook.
Timmy is a power gamer who likes to win big by smashing his opponents. He likes his cards to be impressive and enjoys playing big creatures and spells.
There are also hybrids like Timmy/Johnny.
They even made at least one card as to represent one of the aforementioned personality profiles: Timmy, Power Gamer
1 week ago
Lol I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not about the "amateur" thing, but "curving out" would mean playing something on each turn. I would want lots of 1-drops because it ups the chances I will be doing something during the first turn of the game, then less two drops, and so on and so fourth. Ideally, this means we are likely to things like play a 4-drop on turn four, two 2-drops, or one 3-drop and one 1-drop because the curve is structured so we are less likely to see cards of increasing costs. This means we are building the deck such that it will perform as efficiently as possible on each turn of the game with as few lands as possible. Is this a sufficient explanation?
We ideally want to maintain the "decreasing staircase" curve, so if we were to remove something like Constant Mists we could not replace it with Choke without removing an additional 3-drop and adding a 2-drop. If we don't follow these kind of procedures when building a deck that is excels during the early turns, we promote the chances of getting awkward openers and poor subsequent draws.
That being said, the effectiveness of Red Elemental Blast and Constant Mists depends on your meta. Are you the fastest, most oppressive deck? Then, Constant Mists probably isn't necessary because if you get too far behind then you probably already lost. Most competitive decks experience a lot of blue in their meta's, so cards like Choke and Pyroblast are quite commonplace cards.
We ideally want to keep your aura count in the range 18 - 20, this will result in the lowest variance so you were correct in calling me out on one of the previous posts.
Cyclonic Rift, Toxic Deluge, and Arcane Lighthouse are the most commonplace answers to our strategy. Since you know this, Nevermore is a much more useful card. You should always be naming Rift or Deluge if blue or black is at the table. You unfortunately also have to worry about sacrifice effects, which is why I encouraged you to include Dryad Arbor awhile back as fetching it up can save you in a pinch. The most commonplace sac-effect you will have to be weary of is more than likely Living Death. It's difficult to account for sac-effects though as they warrant the addition of very narrow cards like Tajuru Preserver or Angel of Jubilation, which we don't want. I guess what I said was a bit roundabout, but Nevermore is probably the best option to stop people from playing the aforementioned problematic spells. Nevermore should rarely be a dead draw you either name a problematic commander or one of the aforementioned cards.
I have no idea what "Timmy player" means, could you elaborate? Recommending an "interesting" deck to someone is difficult because everyone has a different idea of what is interesting. If you enjoy quality decks that perform consistently, then the cEDH tier list has plenty of examples of decks that do just that. I can't really vouch for how interesting they are though. I guess some of the one's that I found to be more interesting were an angel of glory's rise + child of alara combo deck, a captain sisay paradox engine storm deck, a combo-control grand arbiter deck, and a pretty standard sliver overlord deck.
Finally, it would really help me with future suggestions if you could be more vocal about what proposed changes you plan to act upon otherwise it feels as though I am trying to read between the lines and find how exactly you intend to change the deck (which effects the curve, which in turn effects the cards I suggest).
1 week ago
I had forgotten that fetches could pull dual lands, and I'm all for deck-thinning: that being said, I'll still have to wait a bit before I can purchase them. I'll wait until I acquire these cards before I update the lands in my deck list: that way I can test them out, though I'm pretty confident that they should work just fine.
Perhaps you could explain something else to an amateur like myself: I would have thought that because Chaos Warp is lower in cmc that it would be the superior choice to something like Cast Out, but maybe I just don't understand the curve.
Considering your idea of using oppression to incapacitate your opponent into submission, as opposed to relying on defensive cards like Dueling Grounds, do you feel like Constant Mists and Red Elemental Blast don't do do enough? Would something like Choke be superior to Pyroblast, due to its more devastating, long-term impact?
Cool, Angelic Destiny works great.
I kinda like the staxy approach of layering one type of prison on top of the other, in addition to the inherent diversity involved, but preventing your opponents from drawing/tutoring cards is a powerful effect. I had considered using Nevermore to oppose more commander-centric strategies, but that could possibly be a dead card, though Stranglehold rarely would be.
This is off-topic, but one of the reasons voltron is so fun for me is because it's so different from the standard decks that most players use and creates fun interactions. I like being able to humble the snobby spike player (not saying all spikes are snobby) that I occasionally play against and level the playing field so that other people can actually have fun, and while I wouldn't consider voltron entirely unorthodox, it is pretty uncommon to see it played.
Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is: are there are any other unorthodox deck types that you would recommend? I get tired of seeing the same decks all the time, so playing something both unique and competitive would be a lot of fun, and most people wouldn't know how to react to something like that. At heart, I'm probably a Timmy player, which is partly why voltron appeals to me.