|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters Promo (UMAP)||Mythic Rare|
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Masterpiece Series: Kaladesh Inventions (MPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Mana Vault doesn't untap during your untap step.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay . If you do, untap Mana Vault.
At the beginning of your draw step, if Mana Vault is tapped, it deals 1 damage to you.
: Gain .
|Have (7)||robbnoble , jecder , , rockleemyhero , MrShhh , Brutus1 , Luckeyawesome|
|Want (6)||RobelCL , LordZZX , chives177 , metalmustaine , dontin1x , Rageface090|
Mana Vault Discussion
1 hour ago
So the ‘classic’ build for Oona, Queen of the Fae involves infinite-mana loops. Strionic Resonator + Basalt Monolith , Basalt Monolith / Grim Monolith + Power Artifact , or Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal +rocks are the typical paths there. I understand if you don’t want to go infinite, though.
Ashnod's Altar is great for using tokens to power subsequent mills.
Ramp is at a premium in UB. Dimir Signet , Talisman of Dominance , Mana Vault , Coldsteel Heart , Sky Diamond , Charcoal Diamond , Mind Stone , Fellwar Stone , and (if you have access) Mox Diamond and/or Mana Crypt are excellent includes.
If you choose to include an artifact ramp package, which I highly advise you do, then thirty-nine lands becomes way too many. I’d recommend cutting six or seven.
With Laboratory Maniac , Demonic Consultation becomes an absurd card. Crafting your mana base to only have one basic and one snow-basic of each type allows you to run Tainted Pact , which I like more.
I agree with xaarvaxus: Black Vise seems sub-optimal here. I actually think the whole ‘punish for number of cards in hand’ theme is sub optimal; with Oona, Queen of the Fae as the main win-con and Laboratory Maniac as a backup, damage plans feel superfluous. I advise sticking with the other two win-cons, and utilize the new slots to further that plan.
Good luck. Lemme know if you need more help.
3 days ago
3 days ago
There are a couple cards I would suggest. Some of them are a bit more pricey tho.
- Felidar Guardian
- Gilded Drake $$
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury
- Hostage Taker
- Perplexing Chimera
- Ravenous Chupacabra
- Reflector Mage
- Sun Titan
- Torrential Gearhulk
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Leonin Relic-Warder
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- Anguished Unmaking
- Generous Gift
- Path to Exile
- Swords to Plowshares
- Rapid Hybridization
- Reality Shift
- Swan Song
- Mystical Tutor
- Enlightened Tutor $
- Vampiric Tutor $$
- Eerie Interlude
- Animate Dead
- Dance of the Dead
- Imprisoned in the Moon
- Oath of Teferi
- Mystic Remora
- Rhystic Study $
- Smothering Tithe
- Ghostly Prison
- Fellwar Stone
- Mind Stone
- Thought Vessel
- Talisman of Dominance
- Talisman of Progress
- Talisman of Hierarchy
- Mana Vault $
- Sensei's Divining Top $
I hope these suggestions are of some help to you. Many of the cards are simply upgrades of the weaker removal/ramp/draw cards contained in the precon.
If you want to make the deck more competitive, cards like The Chain Veil or Felidar Guardian can outright win the game in combination with Altar of the Brood or Vela the Night-Clad .
enpc on Combo Tutors
4 days ago
Thank you to everybody who commented, sorry about the delayed response. Good ol' fashioned life getting in the way (not to mention I wasn't getting notifications for a while).
DrukenReaps: The extra tech with Tez is nice. Ultimately, the reason I like him so much is that once he's down, it's an ability which fetches the artifact and puts it straight into play. He can also get a mana rock (read Mana Vault ) turn N and Isochron Scepter turn N+1. The untap is the icing on the cake, but not why I would play him. The double blue is a bit of a shame, but what can you do. I think he's a relatively strong contender for the slot.
Joe_Ken_: I think I'm goingto swap Impulse for Spellseeker - she just seems better (albeit at sorcery speed). It's a shame she doesn't have flash, but I get why she doesn't have flash. And I think I agree with you on Whir of Invention , while the deck can hit triple blue, you effectively need quad blue held up to resolve it.
jaymc1130: I both agree and don't agree with you. First off, I'll touch on Mystic Forge - I don't mind the combo but I don't think it has a place in the deck. The thing about PE was that sure, there was a combo with Sensei's Divining Top , but more than that it tied the rest of the combo packages together in the deck and acted as a nice piece of redundancy against losing access to reversal/scepter. And I don't think that Mystic Forge does the same thing.
On the topic of 3+ CMC tutors - while I agree to an extent, I don't want to discount them either. Grim Tutor is probably the worst tutor in that paying 3 mana is basically a bad Demonic Tutor (which, granted, is one of the best tutors in the entire game), but even still there is zero restrictions on what it can get.
The rest of the tutors however provide some kind of additional value, most of them in the form that they deploy the tutored card into play, effectively uncounterably (yes, I know that Stifle is still a card). So while you are paying ultimately 1 additional mana, you get to test the waters a little bit. And in that light, the difference is a single mana. Dark Petition is a bit different, but again the ability to get anything is super strong. Not to mention that when getting then playing an Isochron Scepter , there is no cost difference between it and D Tutor. But on the flipside, I'm not going to be cramming Diabolic Tutor into my deck anytime soon just to increase the tutor density.
As for the whole fast v slow matchups, again, I agree and I don't. sure, expensive spells are generally bad against lightning fast decks, but that also comes down to what else is going on in my hand. Generally the faster a deck, the more glass cannon-y it is, so in those games I'm focused more on a counterspell or two anyway - I'm playing the slower game. But that doesn't always mean I'm going to generate value with Tymna. A common table for me is Kess storm, OG Sisay combo/beats hybrid and Tasigur control (I appreicate this may not be toppest of top shelf cEDH but they're still not casual, pub-stomp games). Kess will be about on par with me speed wise, but all of the other decks outcreature me. At this point, I don't mind paying a bit more for a value tutor - especially since most tutors I'm interested in do more than just putting a card in my hand.
On the topic of your Tymna/Thrasios deck, I had a look and it looks really cool. It's interesting to see the amount of proactive hate the deck runs, which is not as common to see these days compared to just packing a deck full of counterspells (which is I guess what you're going for). That being said, in my playgroup and for my playstyle, it's not the deck for me. If all I was versing was fast combo it would be much more appealing. But as it stands, I'm happier with the direction the deck is currently taking and given my group, I think the list has more potency for what I'm up against (not to mention it seems like it would be a lot more stressful to pilot :P).
The transmute cards are interesting. I think that Muddle the Mixture is by far the strongest of the three (which is why I re-included it). Shred Memory is nice GY hate, but feels like it's just a tutor and at that poing costs the same as Grim Tutor . And Dimir Infiltrator is cool (especially with Tymna) but you want ot cast it as soon as possible for CA, which tehn means it's no longer a tutor.
I hand thought about Tribute Mage but he just feels too narrow.
I don't like Reshape here - I'm basically eating mana rocks to get the thing which combos with mana rocks.
Long-Term Plans is a cool card, but yeah, it feels a bit weak here. Good in Melek though.
StopShot: I had thought about Diabolic Intent before and the benefit that worst case scenario you just eat your commander. I'm still on the fence about it though. Again, I don't want to eat a thing to fetch a thing which combos with what I just ate.
I completely forgot about Wargate though and I have to say I'm very intrigued by it. The fact that it can fetch a part of any combo (except Dramatic Reversal and even then it can get Spellseeker assuming I make space for her) is very nice and the fact you don't sacrifice the end goal card if gate is couterspelled is really cool. The mana coast is a bit tricky but I think it could be a strong contender.
Scroll Rack is nice, but potentially a bit slow and can feel really empty if you're stuck topdecking for whatever reason. It's good wheel insurance though. I'll have a bit more of a think about this one.
I had thought about Tainted Pact , however the mana base will cause issues since I run 4 Island s for High Tide (which is surprisingly good). If I cut this down to 2 I could do the whole land/snowland trick, but I'm not sold on it.
Again, thank you all for your comments - there is a lot to digest here but I very much appreciate people's thoughts on it. Also, I think I really overthink card swaps :P
5 days ago
First of all, great list! I have been thinking about building around this commander myself for quite some time now as I found this list on Reddit. You were asking for critique/suggestions so here we go:
The new land Field of the Dead seems like a great utility land for this deck, essentially turning all your infinite mana combos also into infinite creatures. It also seems like a solid target to blink for value.
Animate Dead but neither Dance of the Dead nor Necromancy ? If you don't want that many recurion spells I personally would opt to run Necromancy . It costs 1 mana more than Animate Dead , but it can be played at instant speed, if needed.
I know, it's a bit boring, but how about Rhystic Study ? Also maybe Smothering Tithe ?
Propaganda but no Ghostly Prison ?
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver seems way less optimal than the new Ashiok . He also can infinitely mill your opponents, while providing graveyard hate instead of a mediocre creature steal ability.
Dark Confidant is a great card overall, but I wonder why he is in this deck specifically. He is the only creature in the deck that has no synergy with flickering.
Rona, Disciple of Gix seems very inefficient to me.
I get that you only play the Singets and Talismans that make blue mana, but the deck has only very few ramp pieces (I count 7), so I think Orzhov Signet and Talisman of Hierarchy would be great inclusions. Also have you considered cards like Mana Vault ?
No Path to Exile ?
Disenchant seems out of place. I would replace it with something like Leonin Relic-Warder .
Eerie Interlude but no Ghostway ?
You should definitely play Glen Elendra Archmage instead of Negate .
I know it's pricy, but have you considered Vampiric Tutor (or even more extreme: Imperial Seal )?
This deck is quite boardwipe light for a more control oriented strategy that can, on top of it, save some of it's creatures by temorarily exiling them. Terminus seems especially great, other than that just the classics: Wrath of God , Day of Judgment , Damnation .
These are all my thoughts on the deck, I hope there was something in there that is useful to you ;)
1 week ago
Just for reference, this is the entire ban list for oathbreaker.
Ad Nauseam , Ancestral Recall , Balance , Biorhythm , Black Lotus , Channel , Doomsday , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , Expropriate , Fastbond , Gifts Ungiven , Griselbrand , High Tide , Library of Alexandria , Limited Resources , Lion's Eye Diamond , Mana Crypt , Mana Geyser , Mana Vault , Mox Emerald , Mox Jet , Mox Pearl , Mox Ruby , Mox Sapphire , Natural Order , Painter's Servant , Panoptic Mirror , Primal Surge , Primeval Titan , Recurring Nightmare , Saheeli, the Gifted , Sol Ring , Sundering Titan , Sway of the Stars , Sylvan Primordial , Time Vault , Time Walk , Tinker , Tolarian Academy , Tooth and Nail , Trade Secrets , Upheaval , Worldfire , and Yawgmoth's Bargain .
1 week ago
Phyrexian Obliterator is a good card when it comes to blocking, especially in a mono-black deck.
I’m surprised you’re not running Animate Dead , Necromancy or Reanimate . These cards, especially if paired with Entomb / Buried Alive and Dark Ritual can put down a fatty of your choice real fast. Massacre Wurm is a good reanimation target in addition to your Grave Titan .
Ramp is a premium in EDH. Mox Diamond and Mana Crypt set the gold standard after Sol Ring , with Mana Vault and Chrome Mox following them. Unfortunately, these cards will cost you about the same as a black-market kidney. Charcoal Diamond , Coldsteel Heart , Mind Stone , Prismatic Lens and Lotus Petal are affordable options to consider. Also, with a lot of 2-drop-rocks, Ancient Tomb becomes a powerful t1 play —- it’s about $20 now, after the reprint in UMA.
Toxic Deluge is a good board-wipe to consider.
1 week ago
I've purposely not gone down a large token route. I definitely like having some but I just don't want this deck to be primarily token themed. Which without the token theme that does lower the value of sack outlets like Krark-Clan Ironworks some but I might play around with it to see how it goes.
Untapping is certainly fun but I'm not totally confident in how reliably I can pull it off. Grim Monolith just isn't quite in my price range right now but Mana Vault would definitely be something I take out another mana rock for.
Mana Vault occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.16%
UR (Izzet): 0.59%
WU (Azorius): 1.18%
WUB (Esper): 0.66%
UBR (Grixis): 0.71%