|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Urza's Saga (USG)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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Until end of turn, you may play cards from your graveyard.
If a card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere this turn, exile that card instead.
|Have (22)||ironax , Fleshxandxbone , marcus638 , mziter501 , SirFowler , webdokkeren , redlegs_17 , REV666 , EliGjerdingen , switchkill65 , LoneCrusader399 , joshw335 , frederiklw , Reliva , superdude2431 , Melmo , Epidilius , The_Munchkin , Va1mar , FALLEN-X-ANGEL , mazrimtaim , Horizon97|
|Want (3)||vashaclarens , helium2 , binarysecond|
Yawgmoth's Will Discussion
6 days ago
I mean, look, it's not like the EDH ban list is specifically constructed with cEDH in mind--a lot of is just dedicated to banning really expensive cards that wouldn't break the format but would give no one any reason to play anything else ( Ancestral Recall ), or annoying pubstomp cards people wouldn't stop playing in casual that aren't actually that great ( Sylvan Primordial , Primeval Titan ). Cards like Yawgmoth's Will and Hermit Druid are way better in the format, obviously, but no one seems to care.
That being said, following that logic, why not ban cards like Rhystic Study and Cyclonic Rift ? Rhystic is the format's real Ancestral Recall (if Recall had the added effect of recurring itself on your upkeep unless any player paid 1), and it's not like it's ever been even remotely fun to play against in casual. It's not like the game could really function without staples--just because every white deck (in casual) plays Wrath of God doesn't mean that card is overpowered, but, come on, if you can ban Upheaval , you can ban Cyclonic Rift (it's honestly harder to win with upheaval than with cyclonic rift, and, besides, Obliterate isn't banned, is it)?
1 week ago
hey all sorry for late replies, lifes been busy and my Underground Sea was stolen so i haven't worked on the deck in several months.
nekusar is more of a storm deck than a stax deck when tuned, however more countermagic could be run, i just cant find room for it, but things like Spell Snare , Delay , Stifle , Countersquall are on my watch list as i have copies, Entomb is mainly for eldrazi shuffles but it can be used to entomb targets for Mission Briefing and Yawgmoth's Will
i have a Dack Fayden but i took it out as i only get 1 activation before he dies, and its usually the +1 as the artifact steal is highly situational. i agree on Bitter Ordeal as i have one too and its been in maybeboard for a while
chains and puzzle box are actually the "stax" in the deck, as when combined it negates draws and nukes hands, thereby negating the opponent draw enabling that comes innately with wheels
kozilek is mainly anti-mill so i dont deck myself with wheels or get milled out by opponents, and confidant can be painful yes but on average its great card advantage on turn 1 or 2
i added ad naus in my most recent update as a "win on cast" card as its designed to be, but you're right that it can hurt a bit too much, id have to replace it with another pseudo wincon, maybe Laboratory Maniac ?
thanks for the input
1 week ago
Thoughts for edits
Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek + Time Sieve suffers from being a 3 piece combo and from card quality. Foundry can be worthwhile for instant speed blockers, but the other two are dead draws without the combo assembled.
I would recommend Tainted Pact for running with Laboratory Maniac . It serves as an A + B combo for winning (+ draw 1 card ofc), and is safer for the purposes of your deck than Demonic Consultation , although you could easily run that for cheaper CMC comboing. Worth noting that Pact has synergy with Isochron, or can be used for getting the last combo piece for a Top combo.
It seems as if assembling infinite mana + draw deck is your goal. I would recommend slotting Copy Artifact + Winds of Rebuke as an alternate wincon to lab man wins. Combos with dramatic scepter (you copy the scepter, imprinting winds of rebuke, to mill everyone out and pass to them, causing draws into empty libraries for GG). Copy Artifact and Winds of Rebuke also both have very high card quality, both are playable independently.
My last combo suggestion is for Praetor's Grasp . Especially with Sen having the potential to steal combo pieces, you have the potential to stop win cons as well as getting closer to your own. Praetor's Grasp will run as a functional tutor here, grabbing faster ramp or the combo pieces you need.
ad nauseum is a strong card, but you should consider the following. You are already pressuring your own life total with Dark Confidant as well as Phyrexian Arena , plus incidental damage from Mana Crypt as well as Ancient Tomb and the talismans. Your average cmc 2.33, meaning your Ad Naus will usually dig 10-20 cards, depending on damage and what you flip.. You also don't run any rituals, and have no way of reusing rocks outside of Dramatic Reversal . Supporting cards like Chain of Vapor or Hurkyl's Recall give extra mileage to Ad Nauseum as they let you re-ramp your own mana positive rocks after landing the Ad Naus, and Yawgmoth's Will is a monster in Ad Naus decks. You are also light on creatures and pack a medium sized removal package, so creatures can get free swings and reduce your Ad Nauseum that way too. You are running white, so you could decide to make ad nauseum + Angel's Grace a win-con as a possibility too. Right now Ad Nauseum looks more like expensive card draw in this deck than a strong win condition. As it stands, I firmly believe Necropotence is stronger in this current list.
You should consider swapping slower, permanent based draw spells for faster, instant/sorcery speed draw spells. Brainstorm + Ponder + Preordain + Sleight of Hand will all bring down the cmc for Ad Naus, help guarantee smoothness in your early game, and give you cantrips to "win immediately" with Lab man. They also allow you to hold up counterspells more meaningfully. You could cut Padeem, Teferi, and the U/B Tezzeret, those changes alone would cut 10 CMC out of your deck for speed and Ad Naus purposes. For what it's worth, I also believe that Scroll Rack is most effective in edh with decks that sustain larger handsizes (gives ability to dig deeper), and would also be a proponent of cutting for a cantrip. One final note on card draw, your commander acts as card advantage for you,
Your removal package can be modified to be faster and stronger. Council's Judgment has some nice perks, but it should be tertiary to both Swords to Plowshares as well as Path to Exile . Both of them are just far more efficient. You also only have two answers to artifacts or enchantments on the board, Cyclonic Rift or Council's Judgment . 2-3 more bounce spells could help with board state by quite a bit, especially if you are able to stax them out of replaying their pieces. 1-2 pieces or artifact/enchantment removal will also go a long way to helping your board presence, especially since cEDH skews towards non-creature permanents.
Humility + Night of Souls' Betrayal is a nice creature lock, but I would rather see wipes in both of those slots. Humility wrecks card advantage from your own commander, and Night is low card quality outside of combo. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is the preferred -x/-x effect, as it kills many of the strongest hate bears in the format (+ lab man) and allows your own hatebears to win through beatdown. I wouldn't recommend Elesh in a bear-lite build, so I would propose two wipes or pieces or removal instead.
Disallow is high cmc for a counter, consider running something else if you still want Ad Naus. If you want to hamper activated abilities, run either Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker , both can deal with some of the premiere critters of the format, from Sisay to Thrasios. There are still plenty of fantastic 1 or 2 cmc counters that are common in the format that you don't run, such as Negate and Counterspell . Special mention to Swan Song for also doubling as a dramatic scepter + Copy Artifact wincon
Land base looking strong. Only changes I would suggest are remove the ETB tapped manlands, because speed is important, as well as swap out the artifact lands for basics. With a very high artifact density, you don't need to be worried about metalcraft enabled for Opal, and having nonbasics that don't give abilities and only produce 1 color of mana is not worthwhile when you can get caught by someone else's Back to Basics
1 week ago
Thanks for taking a look PookandPie!
This is my newest cEDH deck and still learning the ins and out of Zur, but atm Doomsday has been my most resilient way to win lately.
I'll probably take out Opt and switch in Night's Whisper , you are definitely right about digging two deep for a protection pile as I use Frantic Search and Gush for my protection piles. I'll play around with Snapcaster Mage as well as Mission Briefing I have spare ones not in use. Right now I am in the middle of adjusting this deck to my meta, albeit not playing with Imperial Seal does hurt and Dark Petition definitely sucks when you flip it with Ad Nauseam .
Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it greatly!
2 weeks ago
The two most effective ways to shut down this deck is by preventing us from tutoring or prevent us from using Grenzo. To stop us from tutoring, the universal best answer is Aven Mindcensor . I have lost several games because I cast Doomsday and someone else responded by flashing in Mindcensor, neutering my deck. Even playing Mindcensor preemptively can work well, but know that we run ~7 cards that can kill it before we try to combo. The better option is to prevent us from using Grenzo's ability. The two most effective options here are Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence . Not only to those two prevent us from comboing with Grenzo, they also stop us from manually comboing since all our combos require activated abilities of creatures. Another approach to stopping Grenzo is to just never let him resolve long enough to activate his ability. Countering him, killing him upon resolution, or naming him with Meddling Mage all work. Gravehate can also stop Grenzo, but you have to be careful. Rest in Peace / Leyline of the Void DON'T stop Grenzo. His ability doesn't care what zone the card is in, it just puts it into play if it is a creature with power less than Grenzo's. Grafdigger's Cage will work, since it forces creatures entering the battlefield to check where they come from. As a neat side note, Rest in Peace allows Grenzo to bypass Grafdigger's Cage, since the creature's are entering from exile, not the graveyard. TL;DR Run Aven Mindcensor and Cursed Totem / Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Sanctum Prelate actually doesn't do much against the combos in this deck since they are all creature-based. If you can cast Prelate by turn 1-2, it'd be best to choose since 1/4th of our deck is 1 CMC and not casting those spells will slow us down significantly. If you can't get it down early and we are able to tutor/setup a bit, you're best option is to choose . The main benefit to choosing 3 is that it prevents us from casting Doomsday, but it'll turn off 4 of our removal pieces that get rid of Prelate ( Toxic Deluge , Fire Covenant , Dismember , and Chaos Warp ). Additionally, it prevents us from casting other powerful spells like Necropotence , Wheel of Fortune , and Yawgmoth's Will , further keeping us locked down.
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
Play testing has been amazing. With the updated list I won a 3 person 3 pod tournament in spectacular fashion. I won the first pod by Helm of Possession my opponents Coffin Queen keeping myself alive after being milled to 0 cards by the Phenax, God of Deception player milled me out, using queen to grab Golgari Thug from the GY and targeting creatures in the yard to finish out the game with combat. It was amazing. The final pod I T1 fetch landed and Enlightened Tutor for Mana Crypt . T2 Yawgmoth's Will my fetch land and played Enlightened Tutor for Eldrazi Monument . After that it was all over. I ended up killing first player with Commander Damage for Flavor and killed the last player with 16x 4/4 Wurm Tokens.
I had some issues with SAC outlets being stolen from a player but other than that I think I am happy with the deck for now. Not running any hate and annoying disruption gives gthe deck a fun play feel being able to hold off opponets from attacking you first. Will see how it play tests over the next few weeks as people become familiar with it. Everyone that has lost to it loved the deck and had nothing but positive things to say. Card draw felt hard with Monument and Skullclamp was worthless after T2 in both games. I feel like its only good if i have it in my open hand and a 1/1 to sac.
Additions i am going to make are Coffin Queen .
3 weeks ago
nickelphoenix I'm glad you brought up the point of graveyard hate. I added an entire section about it and how to better deal with it.
The recursion cards you mentioned are very interesting. Lifeline is a huge impact card that provide unlimited fuel to the engine, and I'm considering adding it to the deck. Another you've mentioned that sparked my interest is Cauldron of Souls . Free recursion is very good, especially when it allows our engine to keep running a lot longer. Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed also give free recursion, but they only work with some of our cards. Nonetheless, they're quite good. Enduring Renewal is weird. It provides very good recursion but makes drawing creatures impossible. Yawgmoth's Will however, doesn't work well with any of our death triggers since it exiles them instead of letting them die, but it does get back our other cards for value.
Another one I just came across is Strands of Night .
Yawgmoth's Will occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%
U/B (Dimir): 0.07%
W/U/B (Esper): 0.22%
U/B/R (Grixis): 0.35%
BUG (Sultai): 0.34%
RBW (Mardu): 0.08%