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Yawgmoth's Will Discussion
3 days ago
Ehhhh I kinda wish Sensei's Divining Top stayed in the format, but the ban isn't really surprising. It's kinda the same feeling I had when Birthing Pod was banned in Modern. I like the card and wish there was another way, but I completely understand why the ban. This is especially considering the shitty slow play used to go 1-0-1 every round.
My main concern is Miracles was basically the last truly competitive control deck left in the format. Legacy has really shifted to having a large saturation of midrange. I dunno, we'll see if something else steps in. U/W Control has basically been a thing before Counterbalance was even printed. It's probably the oldest archetype in the format (going all the way back to Weissman's "The Deck").
On another note, I'm really surprised Gitaxian Probe got restricted in Vintage. Gush was a long time coming because of how well Monastery Mentor was positioned in the format. Gush has repeatedly been problematic every time it gets unrestricted. Hopefully, we see more variety between Thirst for Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven, and other blue draw engines. Gush really pushed those out of the format to where everyone has been playing UWxcontrol-midrangegoodstuff.dec because of how much value you get out of it.
But Gitaxian Probe? I guess they're really trying to nerf the shit out of Monastery Mentor and Delver of Secrets Flip. I'm not really sure that's necessary considering how diverse the format is. Swedish Nationals just ended with 5 compeltely different archetypes in the top 8. The 3 decks that were the same were Monastery Mentor lists, and only 2 of them shared colors.
For those unfamiliar with what the difference is, Esper Mentor gives you Cabal Therapy (double prowess triggers for daaaaaaaaaaaaays!), along with the option of playing Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will. This means Esper allows for more combo finishes where you make a bunch of tokens and get tons of prowess triggers.
Jeskai, on the other hand, gives you far more control options. The main cards are Dack Fayden (who steals Tinker targets) and Pyroblast (which stops Time Walk and Ancestral Recall, while also blowing up Jace, the Mind Sculptor).
I'm not sure what restricting Gitaxian Probe accomplishes, despite the DCI's reasoning. Gush is the main culprit in Mentor, besides Monastery Mentor itself. I feel like this just hurts Delver and Noble Fish strategies. If they're so concerned over Monastery Mentor, I don't see why they don't just restrict the damn thing.
1 week ago
Lilbrudder So I have played about 30 or so games with my version which is more or less this list just missing a few of the hyper-expensive cards and it has been incredibly good. In that time, I have had three people recommend that I try Baral, Chief of Compliance and the more I think about it, the more I think that he deserves a spot. The cost discounting and occasional relevance when countering spells seems incredibly good with all of the rituals for such a low mana investment. Actually netting mana off of stuff like Manamorphose or just having Cabal Ritual be another Dark Ritual can make or break a win off of an early Ad Nauseam or Yawgmoth's Will. I will try it out in place of one of the cards I am missing, but I think that it may even have a place in the fully optimized list.
1 week ago
My favorite general pile to use with Zur is Gush > Lion's Eye Diamond > Gitaxian Probe > Yawgmoth's Will > Laboratory Maniac. Gush will be much more important once you get your LED. Winning for UU, 4 life, and 2 Islands on the battlefield is short and sweet.
2 weeks ago
I have been tweaking it for a little while now. Getting the mana is a good spot was probably the hardest part. I was running signets then I changed to more lands then I changed it to enchantments. And the enchantments seem to be working the best at 36 lands. I never ran any of the other praetor cards because I just wanted it to be low creature planeswalker centered. I chose Yawgmoth's Will over Praetor's Counsel because it was just much more mana efficient. This is also my "fun for the table" deck. I have Dirty Ol' Leovold if there are people around that want to play cut throat.
2 weeks ago
SageOfStone: Sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been meaning to get back to you but I was wiped out all weekend and then today has been hectic. But I wanted to properly address your comment - you've given me a lot of awesoem feedback and points to ponder.
As for your individual card comments:
I hear what you're saying about the Joraga Treespeaker. I think it can be a bit slow, but it has potential. I added it sonce I've upped my elf count (primarily for Priest of Titania) - I want to give it the acid test and I'll see how it holds out.
While Mindbreak Trap isn't as powerful anymore, the fact that it exiles rather than counters is a huge plus for me. I'm typically playing against big eldrazi (one of the main decks I play against is a Captain Sisay deck) and being able to exile them so they don't reshuffle is huge. Notto mention, it's one of the few counterspells I have that shuts down a Dragonlord Dromoka (again, a card I see often).
I've been o nthe fence about Glen Elendra Archmage for a while now. While it's really good, I often have the problem that 4 mana to play it plus 2 mana free for countering often leaves me tapped out otherwise. I prefer having options, plus having that bluff can be nice sometimes.
I used to run Prophet of Kruphix and found that it pulled a lot of aggro. My concern is that Seedborn Muse would have the same effect and that the benefit it would bring wouldn't be enough to offset that. Plus I owuld personally prefer to run more ramp rather than an untap effect as onc eyou have Damia mana you're generally pretty good.
I actually used to run Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but cut it for Baleful Strix. I found that with a small (and weak) creature base, people would just swing into Jace if they had nothing better to do. Baleful Strix on the other hand has the opposite effect, plus it can act as a backup Rune-Scarred Demon in combo.
Again, I used to run Chord of Calling back in the day when thedeck was a lot more creature heavy. Becuase most of the creatures in the deck now are either mana dorks or need multiple creatures to combo, I ended up cutting it as it became less and less useful.
Just like Chord and Jace, I also ran Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for a bit. The thing I noticed with him though is that because i was one of the heaviest control decks in the meta, I usually didin't need him as I had enough counterspells to resolve my combo. He might make a second appearance i nthe deck if I start coming up against more control decks though.
Sower of Temptation is interesting. I think the biggest interaction I like with it is that you can bounce it with Riptide Laboratory however it feels ab it niche in the curent build. I will add it to the maybe board though, because it's an interesting idea.
Again, I used to run Mind Twist a long time ago. It is pretty dirty, however I've found that in multiplayer it's not anywhere near as powerful as in 1v1. If this was a due lcommander list, I would be running it in a heartbeat however here I'm focusing more on reactive control rather than proactive.
Honestly, I've never felt the compulsion ot run Trinket Mage in a deck. I run him in a prototype deck however that deck is somewhere in the order of $4K and he has a lot of targets. Here, I find him underwhelming. Baleful strix is actually really good as it acts a deterent for people to attack me. PLus hte flying blocker is nice.
Very long ago I made toe conscious choice to run Archaeomancer over Snapcaster Mage. This was because I liked the non-exiling nature of Archaeomancer, making it work better in combo. I would consder running snappy alongside, but not instead of. I run Noxious Revival in my Saffi deck and can vouch for it, however I don't know if I need it as I'm not a storm combo deck. Yawgmoth's Will is one of those cards I've been on the fence about runnign for a long time. It will probably see its way into the edck eventually. I don't like Regrowth here though for the same reason as revival. I don't need that much 1/1 recursion.
Unfortunately my meta is quite heavy on creatures attacking, so I think Ad Nauseam is out. I have another combo deck I would like to test it in (that super expesive prototype deck) but I think it's too heavy here.
I hear what you're saying about stroke/blue sun's. The benefit of the USZ combo thoug his that technically none of the peices ever have to hit the graveyard and especially with these new bibcycle lands coming out and with only needing 1 more fetch, the mana base of the deck is overall pretty solid.
I think there are a few cards here that really should make their way into the deck. Long term I think I will try to add a Cavern of Souls (plus the new art is beautiful) alnog with Yawgmoth's Will and potentially a Snapcaster Mage (alongside Archaeomancer). There are a few others like Sower of Temptation which are interesting as well. I'll definitely give them some thought.
Thank you again for your comment and the upvote. It's always good to get a fresh perspective on the deck and especially from someone who has been playing a bit more combo focused deck, it provides me with some good ideas which I may not have seen originally coming from a control point of view.
2 weeks ago
You are right. I was sequencing it in my head wrong. You can get one extra use out of the Reality Shift (or any spell for that matter) but then you are stuck looping the other two. Timetwister is necessary to actually win with the Reality Shift combo.
And one more question now that I thought of it. What do you normally tutor for with Intuition? I have never ran the card before and it seems like the type of card you need to set up so that there is no right answer for your opponent so I am guessing that Yawgmoth's Will should be one of the choices. Perhaps Regrowth and whatever other combo piece you needed.
2 weeks ago
Hi, enpc! I'm responding to the comment left on my Damia Primer. You said you wanted to try to fit Day's Undoing in, as well as possibly Gilded Drake.
I see you removed Remoraid for Day's. I personally don't play Remoraid, but its mostly a meta call because there are a lot of dorks in my group. I think I would rather nix the Joraga Treespeaker. My friend who plays green and I argue about that card all day. Personally I think its a bit slow, not producing any extra mana on turn two, which consuming mana on turn one.
This is definitely more of a control variant than my list is. Back when I played dedicated control, I liked my counterspell count around the 8-10 range, which is where you are. Personally I could see you cutting Mindbreak Trap for Gilded Drake or even Maelstrom Pulse. Both are super good picks for a control build. Mindbreak Trap is super niche, and aside from being a potentially free counterspell, countering a ton of spells at once isn't as relevant anymore. Most storm decks win with Aetherflux Reservoir.
I kinda miss my control deck. There are a lot of great cards that can be put to much better use in those variants. I'll leave a few as suggestions.
Glen Elendra Archmage - I see you have it in your main list, but its not here. I love this card, and even though my deck is dedicated fast combo, I can't fully remove it. Its sitting in my Wishboard right now, and its never leaving. For control, its a godsend.
Seedborn Muse - I've always thought Seedborn Muse was a better Prophet of Kruphix. When I played control, if I could pass turn with this critter out, I generally always won. The only downside is not being able to flash in Damia before your untap like with Prophet, but for just being ready on everybody's turn, its great. It gives you a lot more wiggle room to be proactive while still controlling. It also makes controlling three opponents possible for potentially indefinite amounts of time.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - His 4cmc is a bit daunting, but he does too much. His brainstorm effect helps as general redundancy, and his -1 works great with all your ETB creatures.
Chord of Calling - A bit of an expensive tutor, but being able to fetch up Venser in response or Glen Elendra or what have you is just so valuable.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Again, a bit pricey. But control is kinda go value or go home. He does very interesting (read broken) things with Mystical Teachings. A little known fact about Teferi is that he gives every creature in your deck Flash (while they're in the deck). Which means Teachings can fetch creatures. It also is fetched by teachings. Silencing everybody while you combo off is very good to. There are a few competitive strats that can't deal with Teferi on the field either.
Sower of Temptation - Being a wizard means you can make it uncounterable with Cavern of Souls (a great land that I always recommend). Its also fetchable instant speed with Chord of Calling. Like with Gilded Drake, it really helps screw over commander centric strats.
Mind Twist - Probably the dirtiest card ever printed. I've actually made somebody quit playing EDH forever with this (which is unfortunate). But if your group is okay with anything, I recommend it. It just brutalizes somebody. One card to make one player lose. Its pretty good. Helps you only have to use counterspells and removal on two opponents.
Trinket Mage - I promise my control build was only coincidentally wizard tribal. This little guy fetches Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Sensei's, Mana Vault, and if you get them, the Moxen. I explained it on my primer that its also an out to the Deadeye / Palinchron combo. At the very least, it seems more relevant all around than Baleful Strix.
Yawgmoth's Will, Noxious Revival, Regrowth, Snapcaster Mage - BUG has the best recursion suite in the game, and the only piece of the five you're playing is Eternal Witness. These would add extra layers of resilience to your deck.
Ad Nauseam - Your average CMC is <3. If your metagame doesn't have a ton of creature combat, you can probably live with Ad Nauseam.
My last little suggestion here is if you add the superstar recursion suit, either change Blue Sun's Zenith for Stroke of Genius or play both. Stoke is easier to cast without infinite mana, and going to the graveyard drastically increases its playability in pre-end game scenarios.
Overall, great deck. I loved looking through it. +1 to this and to your main list.