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I like the Privileged Position . Just thinking of trying to get it out faster. I was asking about the board wipe because one will take you out completely. Those 2 are not bad answers to that.
Those are good boardwipe protection for you, I would side them in. Probably 4 Second Sunrise
Just for anyone that wants to keep up the conversation (or understand what we are talking about); the only real differences I can think of between the two builds are :
This was a literally one-for-one trade. Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl have the potential to generate more mana together than the two mana-dorks; however the addition of the two dorks allows for the following:
You can now run four Cavern of Souls with no issue and you also can run Horizon Canopy 's for added cycling if need be. Also, you never into the issue where your "mana-dork" can't create mana. The prior build ran 7 Forest and one Breeding Pool and if one of those wasn't on board; both of your Utopia Sprawl and Arbor Elf 's become useless. This is a huge problem early game and causes for more mulligans.
Both require elves for their abilities to work to their fullest potential. Utopia Sprawl is not an elf :)
These are quite different; and:
The downside to losing Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
is in super grindy match-ups. He draws multiple cards (each time you play a druid after he is in) and provides for an instant-speed "steal your lands" semi-win-con (it wins most of the time; but not all of the time). The downside to Gilt-Leaf is that he dies to Lightning Bolt
at 5-mana; and that he costs 5-mana without an immediate benefit.
We initially had Gilt-Leaf Archdruid in to deal with tougher control match-ups; however given the board options; I actually found that I was boarding him out for more "crushing" options...
Anywho; that is where we are at. That is where the discussion is coming from. The deck has somewhat "circled back" close to it's initial build (as the initial one had Elvish Mystic
and Craterhoof Behemoth
in it); however the loss of Arbor Elf
and Utopia Sprawl
is the biggest change made yet.
I'd love to hear any one else's opinion and or thoughts! The tapped out community is always extremely insightful; and we love to hear what you have to say....that being said, Dreno33 is about as smart as they come; so I understand if there is nothing left to add!
Thanks to everyone, and of course (as always); thanks goes to Dreno33 for his help!
I was waiting for your comments! Ha! By the way....how bout that art? Thank you for your help with that! Such a good teacher :)
Putting in Arbor Elf would then require the reduction of Horizon Canopy
and Cavern of Souls
....as we know, control is the worst match-up; and running four Cavern of Souls
is huge. I prefer Arbor Elf
to Llanowar Elves
in nearly every other situation; but here (with the Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
, Horizon Canopy
, and Cavern of Souls
you can get in a situation where you are Forest
-lite and Arbor Elf
is not as useful at that point.
Also, with Arbor Elf you would also want to add in Utopia Sprawl ....this can be done easily with the removal of Elvish Mystic but again you run into the same issues (you NEED basic Forest and thus you would have to remove the Horizon Canopy and 2 of the Cavern of Souls ....at that point, you also greatly reduce the power of Heritage Druid and Elvish Archdruid . Elves like other elves :)
I do completely understand what you're saying...but I really haven't found any major benefits of Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
over Umbral Mantle
steals more games out of nowhere and does allow for more turn-3 wins.
Gilt-Leaf Archdruid is a good "long-game" option against control/disruption; but you side so much in against such decks (including Fecundity ) that you don't really need him. Don't get me wrong...I love Gilt-Leaf Archdruid ....he does some crazy stuff! He's just a little too cute for this build I think.
This build just seems far "smoother"....it doesn't hit nearly as many "hitches" both before or after a Genesis Wave ....you lose a little "explosiveness" on nut draws; but this (in my opinion...which we all know is an odd opinion :) is a superior build by a far enough margin to keep it.
I'm sorry I've upset you....I hope we can still be friends :) BTW....What build am I to be playing tonight? Please provide me the list if you can. I don't want to play the wrong list (as I consider this build my "Elf Devotion deck"; but also want to play by whatever rules there are). I made certain not to add anything directly effecting our match (i.e. kept Beast Within and Ghostly Prison out of the sideboard); but if there is a past version of this deck I need to be playing; let me know. I have them written down; so I can go back and put it into Cockatrice. Even if I consider it a "poorer" list; I want to make sure I am playing the build you want. Thanks so much in advance for your help! Tonight should be fun!
The new equipment is cool, but the changes to incorporate it makes me cringe. But keep testing it, I see the potential. I also see it's limitations due to its situational purpose. As you said, "win-more." You can already win Turn 3 and 4 pretty often. Does it ever let you win Turn 2? Does it let you win Turn 3 more often? If not, cut it. Just my opinion
At least I get to see my favorite build in action one more time tonight in the TapDown Duel. Farewell, my favorite deck, may your grandchildren follow your footsteps, your oh-so-heavy combo footsteps.
P.S. And yes that was me that suggested the Arbor Elf you see at the top of the page. Leave it there as a reminder every time you check on your deck. Then when it hits you that you should have never betrayed and cheated on him, you can click that BIG, BEAUTIFUL green button and apologize to him.
He is wondering the woods, looking for a new and, more importantly, caring home that will accept him and all the potential he holds. Poor Arbor Elf *sad face*
I'm surprised you don't run mana dorks or small land-fetch creatures in here. You're in the best colors to do so.
Llanowar Elves , Farhaven Elf , Wood Elves , Birds of Paradise , Viridian Emissary , and Sylvan Ranger are all small guys that can both accelerate your mana and go on the offensive once you have Gahiji out. Is this something that you are looking for?
has been really impressive...it staying for now. It just adds several more lines to winning that I didn't even see before play testing.
I just had a game where after a wave for only 5; I ended up with an "Infinite Archdruid"...with a Lightning Greaves
attached as well. Because I had another Lightning Greaves
and Umbral Mantle
in my hand; I was able to cast and attach both to a Llanowar Elves
....I then pumped them to 100/100 and attacked...They had a Restoration Angel
in play; so one creature alone was not enough...having both; however led to the win....this is something I NEVER would have seen without testing (and getting extremely lucky). While this alone is of course not reason enough to keep the card....thus far it is testing extremely well.
Of course, I'd still love to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject...but I'm excited that it is testing well. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, and +1's!
How about using Llanowar Elves or Birds of Paradise instead of Arbor Elf ? (The latter is more expensive, as is Sylvan Caryatid ). You only have 7 forests in the deck, so there's a chance, albeit a small one, that you will have an Arbor Elf on the field without a forest.
My elf deck looked very similar when I first built it but has evolved since later being inspired. For starters, Umbral Mantle is a great one to have, why you ask?
1st turn: Llanowar Elves 2nd turn:Elvish Archdruid 3rd turn: Elvish Visionary , Elvish Mystic , and Umbral Mantle . 4th turn: Equip Elvish Archdruid with Umbral Mantle . Tap Elvish Archdruid for 4 mana. Use 3 of it to untap him with Umbral Mantle . Infinite mana, you get the gist. Now, this also makes your Elvish Archdruid infinitely huge. In addition, all of your mana dorks can be pumped up by putting a bunch of mana in your mana pool and moving Umbral Mantle to each of those creatures and untapping as many times as necessary. The best part is Genesis Wave . XD
Regardless of how it play tested, or how many mana dorks you have, or advice you may have received you will need at least 20 lands for this deck to function consistently. After playing with elves as long as I have, that's just a truth I have come to accept.
Another card I'm going to recommend for you is Lightning Greaves . Casting it on the second turn will assure your staples stay out in play long enough to get use out of them and it will increase your speed. I have attacked and killed my opponent with 4 1,000,000,000/1,000,000,000 on the 3rd turn. Tee hee.
All and all, you are off to a really good start. I play tested it several times, +1 for sure. Check out mine and play test it a few times. I Present to you the Jazzy Fat Nasties
|Power / Toughness||1/1|
|Avg. draft pick||5.23|
|Avg. cube pick||8.06|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|2012 Core Set||Common|
|2011 Core Set||Common|
|2010 Core Set||Common|
|Classic Sixth Edition||Common|
|Limited Edition Beta||Common|
|Limited Edition Alpha||Common|
|Promo set for Gatherer||Rare|
|Battle Royale Box Set||Common|