|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
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|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
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|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
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As long as Winter Orb is untapped, players can't untap more than one land during their untap steps.
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Winter Orb Discussion
1 day ago
continued from above
2 days ago
Hello there. I gots me a few suggestions.
First, run more mana rocks and acceleration. A good rule of thumb here is 1 and 2 drop rocks are great here. 3 drop is ok if it produces more than 1 mana (Gilded Lotus is bad here). Mana accel I run that you don't: Crystal Vein, Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal, Pentad Prism, Worn Powerstone, Mana Crypt, and Copy Artifact.
Anyways, feel free to check out my list for ideas... it's not superfriends but it should still give you a few ideas.
1 week ago
I actually do know how mtg was back then, Tyrant-Thanatos. I played my first games when Revised was the core set, The Dark had sold out from the local store, and Fallen Empires had yet to be released. And played just as casual as everybody else, until Invasion or Odyssey, and then had a long break. No internet for decklists, just The Duelist.
But that doesn't change my opinion, really. I think slivers are vastly overrated, if anyone considers them the most powerful tribe with the most degenerate combo. But at the time where they showed up, they were about the only pure tribal deck that could have such a high degree of synergy, without having to find something outside the tribe. Humans, didn't even exist then. Elves could make mana, but had to find something outside the tribe to use it for (and the mana industry didn't really take off for them until Urzas saga and Priest of Titania, anyway) - the elf combo days were way out in the future. Goblins were a bit more like their current self, or... well... at least they had gotten Goblin Grenade. And then SLIVERS. Even as a casual deck, this tribe had scary levels of synergy, making it hard to tell what was the bomb creatures. And that's without even counting the 5 colored Sliver Queen. To casual-player eyes, it was completely broken, but that would often be accompanied by cries about how counterspells ruins the game, and how Wrath of God, Armageddon, and Winter Orb was broken pieces of cardboard trash, that no decent human being would ever touch except when carrying them to the incinerator (it's a caricature, but early on there seemed to be a lot of players who had all kinds of ideas about "fair" mtg, which had nothing to do with the rules of the game, and everything to do with their own taste).
The support cards that came later falls right into this. In general, you can expect to get to play your cards and have them in play a little longer in casual games than in competitive ones (general guideline - someone probably plays casual stax somewhere). An artifact costing 5 mana, and requiring multiple creatures in play to activate, is not gamewrecking in a bigger format, and only sometimes in standard. And it's not like the tribal support isn't there in modern - Aether Vial is solid for tribal decks, Descendants' Path isn't bad either, and Door of Destinies is a favourite for some. Of course you could also add support cards that are only legal in vintage - Sol Ring, Land Tax, and the like - but with that kind of support, horses, camels, crocodiles and ouphes could be killer-tribes.
In terms of power, killing an opponent on turn 4 with a combo that necessitates 5 different 1/1 creatures being in play, attacking, and not being blocked at the same time, might seem strong in casual-country, but doesn't really fly anywhere else. The other much-feared slivers, 5 colored monstrosities and what-nots, are much slower, and therefore also a lot easier to do something about. But in casual edh, they would under most circumstances get the time needed to set up a combo (I've only played against slivers a few times - always Sliver Overlord as commander, and some variation of combo, that ends in infinitely many, infinitely big slivers) - and it's being treated as a combo deck: slapped hard and mowed down, because it has a very real way to end an edh game out of nowhere.
A comment on the article: As far as I remember, it wasn't slivers that got "fixed" by making them non-symmetric. It was every tribe, simply to reduce complexity. Onslaught elves also count all elves in play, not just your own elves. Lorwyn/shadowmoor elves doesn't.As for a power-fix to slivers... how does it help printing more slivers that do the same, only with a slightly different body and casting cost? It helps in standard, where the old, "over-powered" sliver wouldn't be anyway, but for anyone else, it's a power-up for slivers, giving them more consistency (so now they have 2 different haste slivers, and if you want your slivers to be fast, you can almost rely on it now). So perhaps it was a matter of "slivers are a terribly overpowered tribe, if you want to beat them by playing creatures and attacking".
Actually, I'm not sure how much "fixing" slivers ever needed. I mean - Black Lotus was banned everywhere but in vintage, and Lotus Petal showed up instead. The original 5 moxen - pretty much the same: In Mirage we got the diamond cycle instead, afaik with an explanation that they were supposed to be a fixed version. But Sliver Overlord doesn't look like a fixed Sliver Queen - it's a completely other creature, doing other things, only sharing color and creature type. If slivers weren't designed wrong in the first place, maybe they have "been developed" rather than "being fixed"?
It also doesn't seem like slivers grow exponentially strong with every sliver printed. They might grow stronger... a bit... (and never weaker/more balanced). But when you add a card to your deck, you also remove a card from your deck (or end up with a very big deck). Was there ever anything sliver-related, that had to be banned (asking because I didn't play at all during the Onslaught or Time Spiral days) to stop slivers from overrunning standard?
As for slivers in modern: Crypt Sliver would be good, but not very. It makes regeneration into a tap-ability, and that means attacking, tapping for mana and so on becomes very risky. Modern is not a format for creature heavy decks to just sit there and not attack, so perhaps Crypt Sliver isn't all that strong. I think it's Sedge Sliver that is the best regenerating sliver in modern, and you could add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to make sure you always have the right color mana and is able to attack without losing regeneration. Also, you can cut back on mana expense by playing Aether Vial, and as long as you have one of the mana slivers in play with Sedge Sliver, the combination is exactly the same as Crypt Sliver (tap sliver for black mana, spend black mana on regeneration). Crystalline Sliver would be a real upgrade though - Diffusion Sliver which seems like it should be the replacement is decent if you don't look too hard at it, but what is paying 2 extra mana for removal, compared to not being able to play removal at all?
1 week ago
The answer is: Superfriends is not a cEDH viable archetype. There's a reason why cEDH decks don't have average converted mana costs of 4.02, and the worst cards in your deck will typically be the Planeswalkers. So, you may not want it to count, but this is like asking how to beat Doomsday/Ad Nauseam Zur with Isamaru, Hound of Konda. Outside of a few hatebears you'll have to mulligan to, you have absolutely no game vs FC Tazri, Doomsday Zur, Grixis Storm, and more.
To give actual advice that may help, though, and not just be contrary:
The best Super Friends deck I've ever seen was a Narset, Enlightened Master build. Yeah, it had no Doubling Season, but it also didn't have to wait until t3 or t4 before it did literally anything at all (what deck wants to pay 5 for Tamiyo when 5 mana gets you Ad Nauseam?). The guy would routinely cast a few Planeswalkers and extra turn spells, and then finish off with Jokulhaups, Devastation, Obliterate, and the like.
The deck was high variance (versus Zur/Tazri/Storm etc. which can consistently win on turns 3-5 if unimpeded), but it was able to race tier 2 Commanders fairly well if he mulliganed to the right cards.
Ramos's mana cost is too high to be a 'storm' type Commander in cEDH, though he can do some cute stuff, and that holds true for Super Friends as well because he requires additional support outside of just casting him (IE, casting a bunch of low cost spells to build up the mana, which Planeswalkers are contradictory toward this gameplan), whereas Narset is just cast + swing. Yeah, you'll lose Doubling Season and every good green Walker, but you gain a reasonable way to cast Jokulhaups on the fourth/fifth turn which, if no one has won the game, will definitely set people back. An active Tezzeret and Narset Walker or Mindsculptor after destroying everything and taking extra turns is basically better, and you're doing all of it faster.
So that's my vote. Run Narset, extra turn spells, big destruction (Armageddon and its ilk), and lots of hate cards. Cursed Totem will probably be a must because you'll have to mulligan to something like Pyroclasm or lose vs Yisan, Arcum, Sisay, etc., Rest in Peace is solid vs Karador, Breya, etc., I'm a huge fan of Aura of Silence, Stranglehold is always good due to cEDH's reliance upon tutors, Winter Orb, Tangle Wire, and probably like 13-15 mana rocks to get Narset out a couple turns earlier so you can get the train rolling by fourth or fifth turn.
1 week ago
You should look into Stasis, Rising Waters, and Winter Orb. Shuts your opponents down while Teferi gives you gas for days. (Also, Stasis+Rising Waters = permanent Stasis due to land untap being on upkeep)
2 weeks ago
Who knows I could be wrong, maybe I'll get some games in soon to test it out.
2 weeks ago
richardsy920, someone who pilots a deck dedicated almost exclusively to defense is usually said to be running a "pillow-fort" deck or a "turbo-fog" deck.
Pillow-fort decks are known for their tax effects on attacking creatures such as Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety, Meekstone, Crawlspace and the like, and may contain harsh control or "stax" elements like Smokestack or Winter Orb. These are usually enchantment- and artifact-heavy decks with some hatebear creatures that add taxing effects.
Turbo-fog decks are know for running multiple fog effects such as Fog, Darkness, Holy Day, and the like to prevent combat damage during opponents' turns. These are usually instant-heavy decks with ways to recast cards from the graveyard or return them to hand.
Defensive decks typically lock down the board state or prevent others from playing fair magic while they search up win cons, which might be anything.
It's also possible to play defensively or reactively when you need to hold up mana to deal with opponents' plans regardless of what kind of deck you pilot.