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Search your library and graveyard for five cards and remove the rest from the game. Put the chosen cards on top of your library in any order. You lose half your life, rounded up.
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|Have (8)||Archegos , MoJoMiXuP , RomanCoffee , miracle , the.beanpole , LTmiller , Justinaut , Daddy1ong1egs13|
16 hours ago
I haven't elicited too much hate but that's kind of all dependant on playgroup. I say play what you want within reason e.g. it doesn't pay to bring a Doomsday combo to a casual game, but if you draw an unreasonable amount hate for simply playing the archetype you like it might be time to shop around for a new playgroup.
4 days ago
sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.
You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.
I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.
I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.
Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.
Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.
And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.
Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.
As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.
I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.
I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.
When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.
As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).
5 days ago
Personally I would playtest or ask your playgroup, if they're ok with it, run them, if not theres tons of blue filler available, yea he is not a leovold in the command zone, but the 3 card combo maralen, mindlock and taigam seems very similar to functionality as Notion Thief plus a Windfall in my nekusar, i guess the comparison i meant was more of a "draw denial" theme.
I may have spoken from experience, but the "color hate" im referring to is more the card pools, my playgroup is very high end so legacy cards like Force of Will Mana Drain Timetwister Chains of Mephistopheles The AbyssNether Void Jace, the Mind Sculptor Imperial Seal Vampiric Tutor Mana Crypt and Candelabra of Tawnos, obviously there are other budgetless cards in white red and green, but blue/black in a legacy pool is perhaps the strongest 2 color, the most prominent example being Underground Sea and it being one of the most expensive dual lands.
In a budgetless playgroup, black and bluehas the scariest selection of spells, its also the colors needed to run the competitive storm archetype due to needing black for Doomsday and blue for Laboratory Maniac and a "draw 4 cards" spell such as Read the Runes or Breakthrough in the doomsday pile, and those decks are definition of unfun, turn swamp, Dark Ritual, Doomsday putting lab maniac on bottom, then win in 5 or less turns when you cast LM and draw with 0 cards in deck... Laboratory Maniac is EXTREMELY useful in mill decks for obvious reasons: opponents die to mill but you dont
5 days ago
Penguin_Gamer_1, You are completely correct.
All the other 2017 pre-cons had only 3 legends, and he was the only mono-color, so I guess he just slipped my mind.
I wouldn't say he's completely comboless, since I think he's probably the best commander for the old Darksteel Plate + Worldslayer lock. However that's not really cEDH worthy, so T4 is correct as well. I'll add him in.
Lilbrudder, We've listed enough reasons for demoting Prossh and enough people have agreed that I'm comfortable demoting him to T1.5. I'll put up that Blood Pod deck as well.
Gates88, If you're going to write us what is essentially a small essay, can you at least do us the courtesy of fact checking it like it's one?
Mairsil, the Pretender, The combo for Mairsil has already been figured out. Simply get Mirror-Mad Phantasm (or Razaketh) caged and you have an "I win" button for 5 mana or less. Since you're already running LabMan and cantrips Doomsday makes a fine plan B. Tier 2 is accurate for that strategy.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded, The deck I made for him goes off on turn 3 or 4 every game, and I haven't even improved it in over a month. If you think that Sidisi is going off 2 turns earlier than that you're insane.
Teferi, Temporal Archmage, I think a deck who's main combo wants you to run as many 2+ rocks as possible can get away with having a 6 mana commander, especially when that commander is going to refund you that mana the turn you play him. If anything, Teferi's gotten an upgrade recently, because Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter can be run excellently alongside his main strategy (so can HT+Candelabra, for that matter). The decklist we have up doesn't reflect this, while somehow having time for trash like Manifold Insights, so maybe it's time for us to get a new one. If the meta really has been stacked against Teferi strategically recently then we can consider demoting him, but I'm not demoting him just because he's unpopular right now, and I don't think he should be dropped below T1.5 if we do.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain, This is a 3 color, commander tax resistant commander, that turns your graveyard into your hand, generates value with any creature that puts itself in the graveyard, and has multiple win-on-the-spot combos that can be kicked off for as little as 3 mana. I'M NOT PUTTING HIM IN TIER 3.
Aside from all that, could you also try not to make statements don't bring anything new to the discussion?
"General Tazri - Fast, consistent, resilient - everything you'd want in a combo deck. Obviously tier 1."
Ok, sure, but no one has even been contesting that, so why did you need to bring it up? Almost half of your comments in that post are to say that a commander should stay right where it is, when there hasn't even been any talk of moving it down. Why bother telling us? It just distracts from anything interesting you might be saying.
I don't take an issue with you making a very long post, or with you sharing your opinion, but in the future, please try your best to make sure that everything you're saying is really worth saying, and that the comment you make is the best one you're able to make, before hitting send. Because reading all that as it was was annoying.
You did make some good points in all that, so let me give you a response to them:
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, There's been some talk of moving him down. I will consider it. But after all the talk about sticking him and swinging the next turn in the KessVsJeleva discussion, I can't help feeling like we're missing an easier way to go off with him on the same turn. Adding Concordant Crossroads and Need for Speed to the deck might be worthwhile. JimWolfie's deck also doesn't run Hurkyl's Recall or Retract, both of which seem really good with the cascade trigger. Another solid plan might be to cut Lotus Bloom. Since mana is usually easier to generate than cards, you'd be certain without it in there that your first cascade trigger would give you gas, which makes trying to storm into a hasty Yidris much more reliable.
Brago, King Eternal & Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, You had pretty solid reasoning for moving these guys down. A new deck like Blood Pod being a tough match-up is a good meta reason for demoting a commander. (For anyone wondering, "X new commander in Y color identity plays Z strategy better!" is a BAD meta reason, because it doesn't actually make the old commander any worse.) I would be willing to move them down to T2, but I'd like to get a consensus before doing so.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant & The Gitrog Monster, I could see these two moving up as well, but I'm a bit more hesitant about The Gitrog Monster. The reliability of the combo can't be denied, but like Sidisi, Undead Vizier, it's a bit difficult for it to play through counterspells. There are only like 3 or 4 effective ways to stop people from messing with your spells, and a lot of Gitrog lines rely on specific cards, so it's easy to know what to counter.
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Finally, a demotion I can get behind. I feel like the only reason she was placed so high to begin with was people sort of expected proliferate.dec to have better synergies come out of it. At this point all we really need to do is figure out how low she should actually get dropped and what strategy is really best for her.
Oona, Queen of the Fae & Dralnu, Lich Lord, You're saying these should stay, and my opinion on Dralnu is already out there, so I'm not going to get too into this, but as a general statement I'd just like to say that it's worthwhile to think of the .5 tiers as a section for commanders that are around the same power level as the tier above them, but have weakness or drawbacks in their strategy compared to those commanders. Dralnu is about the same power level as many T2 commanders, but has an obvious drawback that weighs him down a little. Same could be said for most of T1.5 and T2.5. However, all of that was a tangent, because what I started writing this to say was I disagree with your estimation of their color identity as "restricted." Dimir is actually one of the best color pairs right now for infinite combo decks, since it has Dramatic Scepter, PE, HT, the best control cards, great draw, all the general tutors, AND all the artifact tutors. Losing green hurts your ramp a little bit, but all the extra rocks you're including for your combos go a long way towards making it up, and creature tutors are all but unnecessary. Blue/Black is just awesome right now, all I'm saying.
Baral, Chief of Compliance, This is interesting. Has he not been as effective as people were thinking, or did HT just fall out of favor? I'm open to the idea. What does everybody else think of demoting him?
I'll swap to your Johnny, Combo Player list. I didn't really bother checking the last one that thoroughly since it's Un-set. Your's seems better.
To everybody else, I'm reviewing the decks that have been posted. I'll put up the ones that look good, and comment if I think something needs to be changed. Stay posted.
1 week ago
I agree with sonnet666 here. We are considering the power of every commander ever printed, and demoting them just like that would be an error I think.
I think a good example is Karador. Yes, sure Thrasios + Tymna murdered him, I agree on that. But, the deck running Karador is still playable, I mean it is nowhere complete jank, and still on par with something such as The Mimeoplasm, also outclassed by Thrasios + Tymna.
I think we should calm down on demoting everything and changing everything. Let's colleclt some datas. Let's gather some decklists. Let's optimize things a little before moving that many cards around. And I won't even join the Kess discussion...
Even if some people are not considering it really good, I like Dralnu quite a lot. He offers some potential of a cheap, easy to build UB storm deck which might be a good entry point for cEDH, a good way to learn how to play storm and Doomsdayon a somewhat budget (like I am forced on now because of school). However, like it have been said before me, it has a pretty huge drawback. If ever damage was to be dealt to him, we are pretty dead. Sacrificing our board to a damage spell would be pretty bad. Sure, I have not saw a lot of damage spells in cEDH (except for the ones mentionned by sonnet666, even those I have not really seen...). Definitely does not belongs to tier 4. I would agree on moving this commander up to tier 2.5. He is not the most powerful cEDH deck ever built. However, the deck can win without the commander, and if the commander survives to untap, it is pretty much a guaranteed win, since we could go double High Tideand double Bubbling Muckin a single turn, Paradox Engine...
Now, onto Reaper King. There definitely is some sleeping potential over there. Food Chain generating so much mana from our commander... We have seen what 5c Chain decks are available (just take a look at General Tazri if you don't know what I mean). Sure, the deck will be nowhere as strong, but I definitely think there are a lot of things that could be done with it. I am not sure going for a BloodPod deck is the best idea, even if it seems attracting. I will have to look more in depths to it before moving it though, it is too early to say. But it has a lot of potential.
1 week ago
Day's Undoing for emergency gy shuffle
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
I am looking at a new EDH deck in the realm of fast combo. I'm looking at Doomsday especially since it isn't brainless to play like Hermit Druid or Food Chain. My problem is my budget. I'm looking for something sub-$1000 that can threaten wins turn 2 and on. I live in a pretty competitive meta, and I want to make a deck thats on the opposite end of the spectrum from my brago stax deck. Fast combo seemed like the option. let me know what you guys think!