Hey, can I please get your thoughts on an SBT deck I'm putting together: Started off BUGing, Now I'm Nag(a)ing
I've been comtemplating switch out Damia for a little while now and looking at some of your Sidisi lists made me want to give it a try at least. but I kind of feel like I'm missing a few things. I'd be keen to get your input if you have some spare time.
Cheers in advance.
July 11, 2017 12:54 a.m.
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Sidisi is a food chain outlet. Thrasios is not. Lime Blue's tapped out moniker is voidia
July 24, 2017 5:28 a.m.
Tymna the Weaver is tier 1. She is THE key piece to blood pod, which is the best stax deck in cEDH and is more powerful than Thras in some hate bear heavy hulk/raz Thras and Tymna lists. She is essentially a 4 color Edric who can draw 2-3 cards for free every turn. Just add any 2 colors. She literally makes turning sideways in cEDH a viable strategy. I do not have a list I want to show (just yet) for evidence. I merely want to start the necessary conversation for her to get the respect she deserves.
July 23, 2017 5:55 p.m.
I'm going to butcher your baby with my hipster notions about deckbuilding and give Hulkweaver a spin. Sorry and thank you
July 21, 2017 12:52 a.m.
Lythia: Welcome and sure!
Hey guys and gals its been a while. I have just completed my latest project and will build on the description over the next month or so. Its pure cEDH made to play against similar decks only. I have built the deck around Razaketh, the Foulblooded and I am pretty pleased with it.
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 17 | 23 COMMENTS | 1661 VIEWS | IN 5 FOLDERS
July 20, 2017 6:42 a.m.
Shiek200 I have had some serious fun with living death. Its the best card ever for a varied meta.
mlequesne As shiek said scourge is much better for our purposes. Voidia and I have been doing these layered multicombo decks for a while. What we found is that to make it work all your combos have to be compact as possible and all your enablers have to work for each combo as much as possible. Adding redundancy to FC with anoher combo only piece weakens every other combo. In a dedicated FC build griffin is good.
wylwist: It is certainly an issue but unfortunately the solutions are generally more costly than the issue itself. If we get ballista in hand no biggie just cast it for 0 after mike is in play. Same with Viscera Seer for 1. Also seer in play allows us to skip the whole delver step and go straight to mike and ballista. That leaves Mike or delver in hand as the issue. Body Double helps with the delver issue but does nothing for Mike. One card I have considered is Body Snatcher but its kind of meh on its own and I think it may also require another card (ex. Golgari Thug to work, which weakens the rest of the deck. At the end of the day if our pile does not work we attempt to pivot to a different wincondition. For instance, I have used flash hulk to grab something like eternal witness and eternal scourge/fauna shaman to assemble food chain.
July 18, 2017 9:13 a.m.
gebell: Thank you for adding to the conversation! I thoroughly enjoy the games you and Shiek200 describe. Its unfortunate that I have only been able to experience such games a few times when I played casual EDH. However, if you ever played cEDH I think you may be suprised how similar 4 highly tuned deck can mimic the types of games you cherish. Turn 2-3 wins are highly unlikely tbh even for a deck like this, given how many tools the other 3 decks have to stop fast combo.
I feel the need to clarify something. I suspect that your views on cEDH are distorted by encountering pubstompers. No cEDH player would ever bring a deck like this to a casual setting, but Pubstompers get great joy out of pooping in the punch so to speak.
I would encourage you to read Clay_Puppington's Excellent article on this very subject. I assure you a truly competitive EDH player is not the problem. They would either play a casual deck at commander night or not play at all. There is no joy in smashing a mono white angel deck with Flash Hulk. With that being said, competitively minded players cannot help if someone takes our decks/ideas and uses them for mischief. As I have said before it comes down to expectation. If everyone is clear on the type of game we all want to play we can coexist peacefully.
July 13, 2017 1:42 p.m.
I would drop the ghostly flicker package and I do not think the self recurring creatures are worth it except for Bloodghast (as long as you add Skullclamp and while I love some deadeye shenanighans they arent even necessary tbh. Raz goes "infinite" (aka until you run out of life) with Protean Hulk. Also now that Raza has a good Buried Alive+Reanimate package he has no trouble going off. SBT is the PERFECT general for Raza as she can use top deck tutors or Brainstorm to dump raza in the yard as she attacks you reanimate him and you win. Its truly that simple and you dont have to expose your entire library to hate.
July 12, 2017 9:58 p.m.
Shiek200: Thank you for the upvote. While I get where you are coming from I do not think cEDH violates the spirit of the format or is any less fun for the persons involved. I have played a great deal of casual edh and while I love slower synergistic decks that turn sideways, and have had fun playing a 4 hour games with incredibly complex board states and strange interactions such games were always the exception rather than the rule.
The issue I have always encountered is that unless you have a dedicated playgroup that is all on the same page in terms of power level the games are usually unsatisfying. For instance, there have been many games where I was playing fairly and simply grinding value and a combo player killed the table on turn 4 while everyone else was ramping. I have also encountered people in casual edh who's decks were so woefully underpowered that they simply get crushed by the rest of the table no matter how the rest of the table plays. I have also encountered games where someone decided to hard lock the table and keep everyone sitting around for 45 minutes while they durdled.
Many casual players view these issues as a competitive player ruining everyones fun but I feel like its more an issue of people not being on the same page. The issue with casual edh is simply that its hard to know what game other people are playing and there are so many unspoken rules. Some people are horrified by mass land destruction but will not hesistate to turn 2 flash hulk or Stasis lock the table. Some people hate counterspells but will laugh with glee as they It That Betrays+Living Death the table. Some feel as though tutors are bad but will masturbate with their izzet storm deck for an hour on a single tutn, fizzle and then pass turn.
I enjoy cEDH simply because I always know what I am up against. I don't have to hold back. I can simply play to the best of my abilities and try to win. If I turn 2 the table then my playgroup can laugh about it (appreciating the good play) and get another game in where they hopefully find a better answer. It simply comes down to expectation for me. I would never play this style of deck at a game shop. That is what my comboless Sharuum reanimatior deck is for. Sorry for the longwinded response. I wish you great fun with your SBT brew. I am also glad that while you don't care for cEDH you can still appreciate a well constructed deck for what it is. Cheers!
July 12, 2017 7:07 a.m.
Overall I like it. However if you are going in this direction with mike ballista and seer I think you should consider Flash+Protean Hulk and Entomb+Necromancy. For Just Phyrexian Delver you can assemble that combo and win at instant speed. I think that you are not utilizing your graveyard enablers as well as you could be. For instance if you added Victimize you could assemble your DEN+Palinchron combo with buried alive instead of all the land rampers and T & N which could free up some slots. Aldo have you considered Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Hes absolutely incredible, especially if you go the whole hulk route. He has a great buried alive pile too.
July 12, 2017 12:53 a.m.
I would just do Thrasios and Tymna. It will likely improve the deck tbh since Tymna can draw us cards and Thrasios wins with infinite mana.
July 11, 2017 12:19 p.m.
After reading his primer I could definitely see sickrobots Varolz's list being tier 2. Having a sac outlet in the command zone mitigates G/B's biggest weakness in the hulk department (lacking an easy way to kill hulk aka Flash).
July 11, 2017 6:40 a.m.
This may come across as elitest but I think that while the new cards have opened up many new archetypes (competitive edh is more diverse than its ever been), it has also lessened the pool of viable commanders for competitive play.
I am obviously somewhat biased but the power differential between something like Meren and SBT/Thrasios is bigger than ever since they can do the combos Meren is trying to pull off much better. Having enablers like Intuition, Flash, Mystical Tutor, Lim-Dul's Vault, good interaction and card advantage, as well as powerful game enging abilities in the command zone (FC outlet & infinite mana sink) make it really hard to justify some of these borderline decks for competitive pods anymore even if they get a massive overhaul.
July 10, 2017 2:25 p.m.
Ixidron is a card that I am not 100% sold on but it does alot of things. It may be a meta dependent but it can shut down a ton of creature based strategies without hampering our own gameplan much. This deck has several ways to get it into play at instant speed (flash; necromancy) and/or cheaply (reanimate). Its better than something like toxic deluge because its a creature, leaves us bodies for Raz, cradle and FC, and it is blue (FOW).
Any commander centric deck is absolutely ruined by it ex. (Narset, gitrog edric)
It can destroy labman victories, neutralize hate bears, stop most hulk decks, hermit druid combo, kiki jiki etc. It can be hardcast in a pinch but its really only (maybe) viable since our shell supports tutoring for and cheating creatures into play and the effect is unique, powerful, and universal
July 9, 2017 3:36 p.m.
The fastest deck in cEDH is Mono Black Sidisi followed very closely by a few other decks (Paradox scepter storm; Grenzo Doomsday; and various Hermit druid/hulk builds). Sidisi can win on turn two maybe 1 out of 5 games at best. Nothing normally kills on turn 2 and certainly not a mono blue deck. While a decent deck can be made with Kami, there is the whole issue of he gives the whole table a card after you cast him and before you get one, which mitigates any advantages he offers.
July 8, 2017 2:49 p.m.
It was put in for an early sac target but its pretty bad. Honestly this list would need ALOT of work to move into semi competitive. With all the upgrades to so many deck and the partners Omnath has been left in the dust.
July 8, 2017 9:16 a.m.
July 8, 2017 12:02 a.m.
maxon: sonnet666 already gave a great overview of the combos we use, so I will give you a different way of looking at it. While its true almost all decks win via combo, there is excellent diversity in cEDH right now.
We have multiple archetypes of storm such as mono green Selvala, Mono black Sidisi, jace vryn's prodigy, two types of Thrasios storm, Zur, Jeleva, Breya, and Yidris. Even with storm decks that win the same way they dont play out similarly. For instance, Thrasios paradox scepter storm plays very different from Thrasios doomtidestorm
We have numerous viable reanimator decks, both fast combo and midrange.
We have draw go control with Rashmi
We have various infinite mana combo decks
We have a number of unique commander centric combo decks in the gitrog monster which wins using lands to combo, edric, which wins via chaining extra turn spells, and teferi who wins with infinite activations of his ability with the chain veil.
We have devoted stax decks (ex. T&T blood moon) and Nath, the gilt leaf.
There are numerous creature based combo decks all of which take different paths to victory.
There are decks that use recource denial and decks that use instant speed disruption.
If there is a playstyle you like (except voltron or aggro) it exists in cEDH. We have gone way beyond the simple combo vs stax
July 7, 2017 11:16 p.m.
It comes down to what decks can win against 3 other decks that have no budgets and no qualms about doing everything in thier power to win. So in a way, yes, generals that support degenerate combos will be ranked higher than those who don't. For instance, Tazri has access to 5 colors and a 2 card combo that often wins the game for 3 mana (Food chain). Thrasios has 4 colors and bomberman, dramatic scepter, paradox engine, DD, hulk and just about every broken deck strategy at his disposal. Some generals are good, not because they enable broken combos, but rather because they offer tutoring/card advantage from the command zone (ex Zur/Tymna). Basically, for a commander to be competitive they have to be:
A) A Combo Piece
B) A Source of Advantage
C) Be Objectively Powerful on its own or be a universal form of hate to the table (Ex. Leovold; RIP)
Generals that can check more than one of those boxes are especially good. Teferi is so good because he provides card advantage, can break parity on stax locks, AND he forms a 2 card combo with the chain veil.
Thrasios is much better than a general like say Breya, because he has better colors, better infinite mana combos, can produce card advantage, and he is easy to cast.
The card quality in cEDH is so high that most generals simply arent worth casting or being built around when they are weaker than a build around card already in existence. Breya has a number of safe combos that work if she is in play, but cEDH is a turn 3 format so to cast her and play her artifact combos is simply not fast enough when bomberman or worldgorger dragon can consistently go off by turn 3.
Being worth the build around is a big issue for most generals. Literally EVERY black deck has to answer the question. Why not just make this an Ad Nauseam deck and use Zur, Thrasios, Jeleva etc. who do the desired strategy better in this color scheme? Why bother with a dimir general when you could just use a 4 color general and have better combos/cards at your disposal. There is alot that goes into it but that is the essence.
July 7, 2017 6:23 p.m.
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