|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Rare|
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Common|
|Modern Masters (MMA)||Rare|
|Future Sight (FUT)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Pact of Negation
Pact of Negation is blue.
Counter target spell.
At the beginning of your next upkeep, pay . If you don't, you lose the game.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
Pact of Negation Discussion
1 day ago
5 days ago
Hey Aaerys, I used to run a Sen Triplets EDH deck also back in the day. Here is some insight which I hope you will find hopeful.
A couple questions, what is the budget are you working with? What is your main goal when you play with this deck? (Is it to control the game, deny resources, or stall until you combo?) What is the your playgroup level like?
Based on what you said your issues were while playing the deck, off the top of my head is to run more tutors, i.e. Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Vampiric Tutor (As you listed in your side board), Imperial Seal. You are in Esper colors which allows for optimal control of the boardstate.
To also answer your question you posted in your deck description, I would agree in turning it to a more control piece shell with more interaction. Cut out all unnecessary dead cards and add in cards such as Path to Exile, Delay, Mana Drain, Flusterstorm, Silence, Pact of Negation, Force of Will, Chain of Vapor, Mental Misstep, Swan Song. Ramp package is also quite vital for a control Sen Triplet shell, you should run almost all efficient 2 cmc and less rocks.
Some cards for ramp, Dimir Signet, Orzhov Signet, Azorius Signet, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Lotus Petal, Fellwar Stone, Mind Stone, Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress, if you have the budget Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, or Grim Monolith.
If you have any other questions to help refining deck, I'll be happy to help!
5 days ago
Yes, there was a chance and I grabbed it! Even without LED it adds to DD piles it's insane :)
So speaking of cEDHlike build - no, it's not by design it's just using optimal cards for my plans. Through testing and playing my Kess, Dissident Mage deck it showed itself being very fast, but it lacked redundancy even with additions to usual Kess builds; that being said I decided to take a deck with more control elements and protection for the cost of being somewhat slower. This is, let's say a prototype that is using cards which shouldn't even be here because of me lacking better cards, which I will mention later.
Pact of Negation - a great card which can't get my hands on and I would definitely give it a shot for some more pile variances. On the other hand, I'm not a huge fan of Foil, I know it's being a somewhat a budget supstitute for Force of Will, but I find it to conditional for it's effect so I'll rather play PoN when I get it.
Anguished Unmaking - I'm also concidering cards like this one. I'd rather like to deal with all kinds of pernaments than just specific ones such as artifacts, enchantments etc. Vindicate is also great, but which to include is a question for now because I don't know how relevant that life loss is for that instant speed (I'll most likely run AU in place of Forsake the Worldly.) And speaking of mass removal spells, I'm a huge fan of wraths such as Wrath of God/Damnation where it's straight forward and since Damnation is pricey and WoG does practitly the same in other colors. I think I would run WoG or even Supreme Verdict since I'm already in white and it would be a shame not to get use of it, but I still agree that Toxic Deluge is a huge deal and it's going in this slot as soon as I get it (going in slot of Day of Judgment). Zur is here when I want to play a slower game and sometimes really irelevant, depending on the pod and my opener.
Solitary Confinement is my personal card of choice when it comes to protection from all those creatures; once Necropotence comes in, those lines of text where I skip my draw step or discard a card become quite irelevant.
Speaking of cards that might get replaced, it's all just a matter of time and money untill I get those. Besides already mentioned ones earlier, cards that might get replaced are Imprisoned in the Moon with Grasp of Fate which is more efficient removal, colorless mana artifacts for fast mana rocks, better counterspells and general land changes for better fixing. Rest of the cards might flex for some others in their slots depending on my meta changes.
6 days ago
You got your hands on a YagWill? Wow, good job mate!
OK; first thing I'm noticing here is that you're going a lot on the cEDH side here. Is that by design or what? BC our meta is more about creatures and here lagging behind a few turns can have a high cost in life and therefore result in an unsatisfactory performance. Meaning that in lower-power metas, sometimes specific solutions are better than budgeted competitive ones. It's just my experience tho.
Now, about the whole Doomsday plan, you could really use Pact of Negation. After its masters 25 reprint it's cheap enough to grab one, and most protection piles need such free interaction. Foil is also good in Gush piles, but IMO now Pact is cheap enough and simply better outside Doomsday so it's a buck well-spent in my book. But you can cram in both if you wish.
Anguished Unmaking is an excellent removal you might like. It exiles anything for just 3 mana and a bit of life. The flexibility to deal with any stax piece is potent when trying to go off. Vindicate works along the same lines, saving you some life while losing some versatility being sorcery speed. IMO you're generally a bit low on removal. You must be prepared to clear the board more than once and preferably in a way that works well with Zur. My fond suggestion is Yahenni's Expertise as it leaves Zur alive, catches surprisingly many important targets and doesn't cost you tempo as much as other boardwipes do because of its free cast. Drown in Sorrow is worse, but if that saved is that important to you and you can spare x/3's, then I suppose scry 1 is also fine. Toxic Deluge should be your long-term goal tho. At such low cmc and very reasonable color requirement it's a bargain, plus it can act as a larger boardwipe in case you need one.
Ramp and manabase are different beast entirely and IMO you should first tune the rest of the deck before shifting your attention to those
Any cards you might think of excluding?
1 week ago
Hey, this looks like a solid list so far, I like it, but there are a few things I highly recommend to make it much faster and more consistent
First off, I would highly recommend more card draw. I see you have some, but it could definitely use at least Rhystic Study and Sylvan Library. Those are possibly the best card draw engines in the format. Skullclamp also looks amazing in this deck.
Secondly, some more mana acceleration would greatly help the speed of the deck. I would recommend at the very least Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Bloom Tender, Mana Crypt, and Deathrite Shaman. Commander's Sphere, Thran Dynamo, Mana Vault, and Gilded Lotus also wouldn't hurt, but they aren't as essential.
I know they're not warriors and might seem kinda boring, but they are crucial to a successful deck. I would also recommend cutting the lands the enter the battlefield tapped in favor of all the fetchlands and original duals if you can afford them or can proxy them. Considering this optimized landbase, Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Skyshroud Claim all become viable options if you need them since they hit shocklands and the og duals as opposed to Cultivate and Harvest Season (though I don't think you really will need them).
As for cuts, at first glance, Archetype of Aggression doesn't seem overly strong considering the bulk of most of your creatures. Combat Celebrant seems redundant with Najeela, and Thrilling Encore is probably just better than Garna, the Bloodflame, but you might need to maintain your warrior count, you've done more testing than I with this deck, so that's up to you. Aggravated Assault seems unnecessary for the same reason as celebrant, but it's not even a warrior. Wretched Confluence is actually surprisingly weak, I'd recommend cutting that. Chance for Glory isn't really the greatest; it does nothing the vast majority of the game, sometimes all of the game. You're in blue, just run Time Warp if you want an extra turn. Kolaghan's Command is dissapointing in edh as compared to modern. If you're looking for something that hits multiple targets, you can run Decimate and Curtains' Call. I'd also recommend Austere Command for this. Noxious Revival seems kinda unnecessary for this kind of deck, but it's fine.
A few random suggestions to end off, I'd recommend at least having one or two emergency counterspells like Pact of Negation, Negate, and/or Disallow/Counterspell. I would also highly recommend a Craterhoof Behemoth. That thing slaughters people. Eldrazi Monument also seems great in this deck due to all the tokens you're generating.
Sorry, I know that's a lot more suggestions for additions than cuts, but that speaks to the power of the list you already have here. It's kinda tricky balancing the warrior count with other "better" options. Trust me, I played a Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck back when he was released, and keeping dino numbers high while trying to run as many cards that are just better was rough, but it can be done. Keep at it!
1 week ago
Hey, I saw that you were looking for advice and there are a couple things that I could recommend. I'll go over a couple things, but I'll start off with the manabase since you said it was the thing you were looking to change most. Also, it's a bit long, but it should help you for what kind of a manabase makes a competitive one.
First off, there are several good replacements for duals, first and foremost being shocks, but since it looks like you already have those looks like you're already half way there.
Basically I would focus on removing any and all lands that come in tapped, because if you want your deck to be competitive, you need to be sure that every turn you take is as optimized as possible. A turn where you could be doing two manas worth of stuff you are only doing 1 manas worth of stuff which essentially means you are playing a turn behind. It's a bit of a simplistic way of explaining it, but that is the best explanation why without going into too much detail. Other lands I would highly recommend, firstly, are the pain lands. These are very effective replacements as well. ( Sulfurous Springs, Underground River and Shivan Reef ) find homes in many competitive decklists you will find. The filter lands are pretty good replacements as well, as they get you the colors you need with added fixing. They only issue is that the t1 plays they provide can be kind of awkward, but should only be really taken into consideration the faster and faster your deck is; In your case they should be a good fit though! They are Sunken Ruins, Graven Cairns and Cascade Bluffs. Also, it may seem weird, but adding every kind of fetch that can even get you one of your colors effectively gives you access to all the colors you could need! You could run all 9 fetches besides Windswept Heath, which seems like a pretty good deal to me, though if you have to pick and chose I would focus on the ones that give you your most important color (blue) first. This goes the extra mile in truly "optimizing" your mana base, and over the long run it thins your deck and makes it more consistent.
All in all, the changes I would make would look something like this -Canyon Slough, -Crumbling Necropolis, -Grixis Panorama, -Path of Ancestry, -Smoldering Marsh -Sunken Hollow, -Temple of Deceit, -Temple of Epiphany, -Temple of the False God
and do this
+Sulfurous Springs, +Underground River, +Shivan Reef, +Sunken Ruins, +Graven Cairns, +Cascade Bluffs, +Cephalid Coliseum, also these are pretty good, but the worst of the bunch I've recommended, +River of Tears, +Tainted Isle, +Tainted Peak. Additionally Ancient Tomb is amazing as well, so I would recommend that as a long term investment too. (plus it goes in every edh deck ever so it's non-exclusive!).
Apart from lands, there are a couple of things that I think you could use to increase the consistency of your deck and some of the combos that you seem to be going for. Going over enchantment's first, as there is a short list, I would consider taking them all out personally. Search for Azcanta Flip is a more value oriented card popular in decks that try to attain long term value and want games to go long. Storm isn't quite looking for this, and for that, I think it doesn't do enough for what 2 mana will grant you especially if you are looking to "speed up" the deck. Very often competitive decks can't afford to play things that don't do anything right away, so even though the card is great, it needs to fit a certain role in a deck. I also think that Jace's Sanctum also comes to the "too slow" argument as well, but I think that if you are looking at least for a semi-competitive option, this is fine to keep in. Also for Thousand-Year Storm I have seen some discussion floating around in the competitive community that it could work really well as a win con in a similar oriented style deck, but the huge argument is paying 6 mana for a spell that doesn't do anything, or win you the game right away. Regardless, I think for what your deck has going thousand-year storm seems like it could prove well if it is working well for you.
Otherwise, there are just a couple of cards such as Jaya Ballard, and Docent of Perfection Flip that really stuck out to me. Personally, I don't think that the amount of mana they are is really worth the investment, and I would rather play cards that help setup the win. To go off this, I noticed that you were playing Isochron Scepter, so why not replace those other cards and play Dramatic Reversal which is a near 2 card combo with the scepter? To utilize this combo you would need to play more things that tap to give you mana, but adding mana rocks will make your deck faster and I would recommend adding more anyways. In general this combo is low investment, high reward because none of the cards that you play to make the combo work arn't progressing you towards your endgame anyways. For the mana rocks you could add, I would highly consider cards such as Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox which are the high profile options, but for leaning more on a budget any of the signets are also highly viable (Izzet Signet, Dimir Signet, Rakdos Signet). In general this will increase the speed of your deck and make it more turbo charged. You won't find many competitive decks without these!
Lastly, I'd just like to briefly mention the best counterspells for competitive EDH. In general it is widely agreed upon that for combo decks in general, you want your counterspells to be as cheap and efficient as possible. Some of the most favored are Force of Will (i saw that you have that one), Pact of Negation, Flusterstorm, Delay, Mana Drain and Swan Song (also on the list). Secondarily, people do play Counterspell but it is often outclassed by the ones I mentioned prior. Also, there are other counterspells that people will play for more narrow purposes and should be played specifically for the meta you are expecting to play in. These are Negate, Mental Misstep, Spell Pierce(only for decks looking to win t2-t3 really),Arcane Denial, Remand etc... (here's a useful link if you want to know more: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/5k0tef/a_lexicon_of_cedh_counterspells_and_some/ )
In general I would cut the counters that are 3+ mana, because there are just better options out there if you go looking, and hopefully that page can give you some good insight for what counterspells are the right choice for you. And that will about wrap things up for me without going in too deep.
Yeah, so I could go over every card piece by piece, but that would probably be an entire article on it's own. It really because what makes a deck "competitive" is kind of an ambiguous term in the grand scheme of things. I'm not 100% sure every recommendation I make fits what you are looking for, so it's hard to analyze what cards are truly good/bad without sitting down and discussing it directly. Also, since there are legitimately several different version of a deck that 1 commander could hold, I think I'll just leave you with some resources that can further your cEDHing. Here are some of the competitive edh resources that I like to visit, and hopefully they can serve you well too!
also here is my Kess storm decklist if you want to take a look!: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nekusar-we-legacy-storm-now-cedh/
It's always good to have another person in the community, so I'm glad that your interest has been peaked! Hope to see you around and feel free to message me if you have any other questions!
1 week ago
Both players must pass priority in order for each item on the stack to resolve, and they must do it for each item (not just once for the whole stack).
So with Karn on the stack, you respond with, say, Spoils of the Vault, naming Pact of Negation. Your opponent must pass priority in order for it to resolve, at which point you do the digging. Assuming you don't die, you now have Pact of Negation in hand, with Karn still on the stack. Your opponent is the active player, so they receive priority again and pass it to try to resolve Karn. You can then respond with Pact of Negation to counter Karn.
1 week ago
Say for example:
It is your opponents turn four and they cast main phase Karn Liberated. Could you in response: cast Ad Nauseam and/or Spoils of the Vault and dig until you find Pact of Negation and then counter their Karn? (Assuming you don't die in the process)
Once Ad Nauseam and/or Spoils resolves, priority would then shift back to the opposing player and at that moment would Karn just resolve? Or would Karn still stay in question on the stack, and would priority again shift back to myself, allowing me to cast Pact of Negation?
My thinking is no, it is not possible to do counter Karn this way but just want to be sure.