|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||None|
|Dark Ascension (DKA)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
Noncreature spells cost more to cast.
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Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Discussion
1 hour ago
I'm not saying that t1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is the deck that beats Eldrazi, because it's not. Eldrazi's major threats come in the form of giant creatures, so Thalia does nothing but run in terror as the Eldrazi menace laughs in her face. The fact is, Chrome Mox alone does so many broken things by itself. Imagine the nuttiest 2-drop you can think of. Now imagine it on turn 1. That's what my point about Mox is. You get too far behind if you don't have your Chrome Mox to also play on t1.
Summer Bloom , and its deck, Amulet Bloom, was a grindy combo deck that rarely could be answered. Imagine a deck representing only ~3% of the meta taking 2 spots in the top 8. That was an insane win rate for the players that could make it happen, and therefore Summer Bloom was banned.
Imagine a meta where Amulet Bloom was allowed to run wild. With the new addition of Growth Spiral , I believe the deck would have been even better than before.
So yes, modern should have a banlist. There's a very good reason for it, as it keeps the power of the format in check. Without the banlist, there would be little variance in decks that would be viable in the format.
Also, let me add that your ignorance and dismissal of other people's opinion is really appaling, and it's probably not healthy in the spirit of this forum, this game, and the format in general.
5 hours ago
shadow63 Abrupt Decay was in regards to dealing with Chalice of the Void along with a slew of other cards that a theoretical jund deck could run that wouldnt exactly be going out of its way just be to prey on Eldrazi.
I think that is a really interesting perspective noting the offensive powers of modern cards vs/kept in line with defensive legacy cards cdkime...Modern doesn't have Force of Will and i think that gets a lot of mileage until Modern banned Mental Misstep .
Blood Moon is a card that is only playable in very specific metagames. For it to be worth playing in Legacy, it has to more-or-less win you the game by itself. If your opponent can still cast spells and gain value from the cards in their hand through a resolved Blood Moon , you messed up somewhere. Maybe you shouldn't have had it in your deck, or maybe you shouldn't have cast it. Whatever the case may be, Blood Moon 's power comes from its ability to shut off entire strategic lines of play. If it's not doing that, don't play it....for those thinking that eventually those Mountain s will turn into a resolved spell/answer then again the tempo swing is in favor of the Blood Moon deck...
Blood Moon is great fine and dandy but its not the only thing vailable to the modern card pool (8th edition forward)... Chrome Mox into a T1 Damping Sphere might not be the same as a T1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben however the point is; Modern has tons of defensive power availible to it. It just comes in different forms. hence why NBLM doesn't exactly equate to legacy... but imitation is the best form of flattery they say.
17 hours ago
IAmTheWraith this discussion is just for fun/speculation (im not demanding change)... its a bit tricky to analyze the metagame with the printings of newer sets since cards "x-y-z" where originally banned; and so far im only aware of one MNBL event and have been told to never reference it or miracles again ..... Chrome Mox turning into a T1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben sounds menacing to put it lightly...normally this is when i would make an argument for answers to this "simply unbeatable" scenario but as DuTogira pointed out that wouldnt be factoring in the tempo swings involved in that exchange... but at least we now know that T1 Thalia is the deck that beats eldrazi.
I think a lot of people take for granted the skill/luck factor involved in these games. as well as underestimate a willing playerbase....people love to win as well as break cards....in the end i see a lot of busted vs busted vs busted which honestly just sounds amazing in reguards to a competitive card game.
22 hours ago
"i dont really have any idea on what the competitive/pro tour scene would look like as far as what people would play with no modern ban"
Then why are you even having this discussion? Before making this kind of argument, you should have analyzed the metagame that the cards were banned in. Then, look at the win rates of said decks/usage level of said cards. Only then would you have enough knowledge to fully understand why there is a Modern Banlist. Most of the cards that were banned had a really high usage rate, or were key points of decks that were neigh unbeatable during their time, in much the same metagame that exists today (depending on the deck/card). If something like Mental Misstep was legal in modern, 9/10 most played cards in modern would be shut off (based on MTGGoldfish), and 19/50 of the most played cards. If Chrome Mox were legal, imagine t1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben . It would be unbeatable, it's really that simple.
So before making an argument that is not even close to being based in fact, do the research. Then you can/will understand why there is a banlist in modern.
While some cards are probably deserving to come off the banlist, many of the spells have their place there, and will stay for many years to come.
1 day ago
After reading through everything since last time, has gotten everyone riled up for nothing and then when they explain that MNBL would ruin the format, amongst ruining a secondary marketplace, and says that isn't the point.
Also, after playtesting Eldrazi, Storm (UR with Treasure Cruise , Rite of Flame , Dig Through Time , Ponder , Preordain , Gitaxian Probe , Manamorphose , Chrome Mox , Simian Spirit Guide , Seething Song , etc.), Eldrazi (Mono-red I think is best with a powerful aggro-prison plan based around Chalice), and Miracles (Jeskai, splashing red for B-Moon), Miracles edged out Eldrazi slightly because of Terminus for their explosive plays, and dredge actually was pretty good too.
Those were basically the only decks that stood up in the format. Delver decks I attempted to build (Mono-U, UR, Grixis, UB, etc.) all fell short on answers, while consistently flipping delver it just didn't do enough, Non-miracles control were bad w/o Leovold, and the format was just really degenerate.
DnT needed more efficient land destruction to beat Miracles, or faster Thalia, Guardian of Thraben to beat the storm list that often went off turn 1-2, Stoneblade was just way too fair and died too easily, Mother of Runes needs to be in the format for a lot of those fair decks to exist easily.
1 week ago
I know I always say this, but splash Green. -2 Shock and -1 Tajic, Legion's Edge and -1 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice for 4x Hardened Scales . It is risky to have too many copies of a leHendry creature because they could turn out to be dead weight and frankly Hardened Scales could be such a powerful card in thus deck.
If you end up splashing Green, I'd recommend Collected Company and of you dont, both Abzan Falconer and either Thalia ( Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben ) would probablyou work in this deck.
1 week ago
Nice brew, neat idea to counter those clunky and annoying Vannifars!
As smne who played Mono-W Stax for a while, with the amazing Hokori, Dust Drinker at the helm, I'll share with you what thoughts inspire me your sweet Linvala decklist.
(Even if it has already been pointed out before, I wanna say that I also love the Urborg combo. It's unexpectable and freakin' gud!)
Let's start by the beginning: mana fixation. Extraplanar Lens is insane in every monocolored archetype, so it's a quite logic inclusion you made here. Nonetheless, I suggest you to go for Snow-covered lands to synergize better with it - that way you won't give a lift to your opponents playing white.
Pearl Medallion and Sol Ring are basics, nothing really worth to say about it. Thran Dynamo and Worn Powerstone are more debatable. I don't know what is your budget issue, but if you want a competitve list, Mana Crypt , Mana Vault , Grim Monolith , Mind Stone , Everflowing Chalice etc. are all better options. Dynamo and Powerstone aren't bad cards, but they just come after those ones if you really do need a solid ''ramp'' package.
Opal Palace feels badly slow and ineffective in a monocolored stax deck. You won't win the game by taking up the board with your creatures armed of a little +1/+1 counter.
You have notable exclusions in your lands for a mono-white. Eiganjo Castle is the first card that comes through mind. Buried Ruin also is a recursive tool you should consider, even over Inventors' Fair . If you manage to find one, Ancient Tomb has its place there replacing Temple of the False God .
At its final shape, my Hokori decklist was running a powerful Crucible of Worlds package including Wasteland , Strip Mine , Dust Bowl , Flagstones of Trokair , Lotus Vale and City of Traitors . I was up to 39 lands, not counting Maze of Ith .
Now let's jump straight into your gameplan!
So... you're planning to focus your eyes on ruining Vannifar's day. To help with this strategy of being the nasty ''combo killer'' guy, I think you should put in some additional pieces of disruption.
That said, I don't know which Vannifar's version(s) your playgroup perform with. If it's a Thornbite Staff / Intruder Alarm one, things would be easier to calm down and you won't need such a heavy stax package - you'll need more single-target/multi-target removals though. And if it's the other one, certainly the most popular now (and also the most powerful/absurd), based on many shenanigans around the creatures Vannifar brings to the table, you'll need more stax support.
One of the very best cards you could add to stop all those creature-centered combos is Humility . This card is broken, this card is stupid. It even disables etb abilities. The only way your opponent has to go through is to destroy it with a creatureless source / or with a ''casting'' effect (like Ulamog has).
Single-handly, Humility tears apart most of the competitive Vannifar lists. However, based on the fact that it is still fragile to enchantments/permanents removals, you'll have to build a defensive shield for your stuff. Vannifar lists often keep a strong package of cheap permanents' removals in their pocket (like Beast Within for example), so you'll need to play carefully.
There's a lot of different ways you can head in order to reinforce your permanents' presence on the battlefield. A pretty simple and most of the time effective, despite of its ccm, you already included is Avacyn, Angel of Hope . I think you still lack a way to cheat her casting cost out to make her a stable and destructive power house.
Stax ''enchantment'' strategy is imo one of the most viable and solid strategy. With Academy Rector (amazing alongside your High Market ), you'll be able to search the exact piece you need to lock the game in your favor.
Notable stax exclusions :
Static Orb > staple
Storage Matrix > staple
Arena of the Ancients > staple
Thalia, Heretic Cathar > staple
Lodestone Golem > Considering all the artifacts you're playing, ~ seems like a consistent pick for your draft.
Ethersworn Canonist > personal preference there. I always loved ~ in my stax deck. Synergizes well with Teshar.
Phyrexian Revoker > another personal preference. Always found ~ useful.
Pithing Needle > destroys Vannifar for 1 mana.
Orb of Dreams > more of an Hokori all stars card, but could also be good here.
Sphere of Resistance > staple, should be played carefully to slow down your opponents combos and not threw away as soon as possible like I see many people casting it
Mana Tithe > unexpected white counterspell - another Hokori all stars... I don't know if it would be any good there
Other cards to consider :
Platinum Angel > slow down combos, create a premium target for every combo player removals.
Greater Auramancy > protection for your enchantments
Sensei's Divining Top > not the best card draw you could find, but provides something White struggles to accomplish
Barl's Cage > strong mana sink against Vannifar and creature-heavy decks
Condemn > more removals
Abolish > more removals
Dispatch > more removals
Catastrophe > clears everything except enchantments/artifacts
Approach of the Second Sun > win con
Idyllic Tutor > searching for Humility
A bunch of meta depending stax tools :
Cards I'd cut from your list :
Martyr's Bond > Slow and unreliable on this brew. As you're not sacrificing any kind of permanent on your own, you'll struggle to get any value out of it outside of a lost political blast deflagrating when the game should already be over. Unless you add in some cards like World Queller , it defenitly doesn't deserve a slot imo.
Bishop of Rebirth > a lot of people seems to give love to this card recently. However, I personally think it is just a bad inclusion. You spend 5 mana on a understated body and you have to wait a whole turn before getting value out of it IF you are in the researched scenario. There will be times where you have Boots or Greaves on board and this will be an insane mini-Sun Titan, but the situation is too rare to justify its presence.
Sublime Archangel > No real interest here. Good creature but doesn't provide anything for the stax strategy.
Gift of Immortality / True Conviction > weird ''win con'' heavily situational cards based on creatures. There is some logic behind Gift, but it's just too much of a unreliable idea. True Conviction has nothing to do here... it's 6 mana spend to lose the control on the game. If you're searching for card advantage and a bit of healing, go for the brand new Dawn of Hope (also is a good mana sink).
Blackblade Reforged > intersting alternative win con. Feels slow nonetheless.
Emeria Shepherd > too slow for my liking.
Whispersilk Cloak > can't understand what this does in a deck full of flyiers and tapping effects.
Finally, as you want to challenge Vannifar, which is a blue deck, you'll need something to deal with the classical Cyclonic Rift . Teferi's Protection is a good solution (and it could also protects you form a lot of various situations / removals / etc.), but I'm sure you can find a lot of other response.
I hope you'll find useful ideas in this comment. Thanks a lot for sharing this, it reminds me good times. Keep up the good work, keep up brewing!
1 week ago
This is honestly a really fun deck! I quite like your inclusions that offer a range of different answers against opposing strategies, such as Knight of Autumn and Thrashing Brontodon . Perhaps, though, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is not a proper fit for the deck, as it contains 25 non-creature spells. A suggestion could be to cut Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Fire and Ice since they are somewhat slow, and add Sylvan Library for card draw and selection, Chord of Calling or Eladamri's Call as additional creature tutors and maybe even Craterhoof Behemoth as a win condition, since the deck already has a few mana dorks that it can take advantage of. After all, a Naya Hoof deck was in the Top 8 of the 2018 Canadian Highlander Championship. Nonetheless, regardless of the way in which you wish to develop your deck, its Naya theme is both interesting and entertaining from a gameplay perspective!
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%
GW (Selesnya): 0.19%
GWU (Bant): 0.08%
All decks: 0.29%
GW (Selesnya): 0.38%
All decks: 0.26%