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Chains of Mephistopheles
If a player would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn, that player discards a card instead. If the player discards a card this way, he or she draws a card. If the player doesn't discard a card this way, he or she puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
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Chains of Mephistopheles Discussion
4 days ago
its actually intended as waste not storm. i own a reservoir and i actually used to run helm/void combo ages ago but found it diluted my strategy and was boringly easy.. leyline is good on its own but helm has been a dead card otherwise, i also used to run the infinite combo with Mindcrank and Bloodchief Ascension but ascension was too slow.
reservoir is good and all, but wheel storm requires very low storm count to work and i only need 2-4 wheels for lethal, 4 reservoir triggers a turn is pretty low.. but thanks for the suggestions!
usually i dont cast any wheels or nekusar until im about to win, so the chance i feed opponents something like protean hulk os very minimal since i will be chaining wheels, meaning they would only be able to cast instants provided they have the mana on my turn. sometimes there is removal or counterspells that happen but thats exactly why i run my own counters and a bunch of 0-drops so i get more wheel value than opponents. i havent had much failure so far.
nekusar is only bad if played bad, a majority of the game is ramp and control, wheels and nekusar only happen when i can win, since using them as a loot or outside the combo obviously feeds cards. wheels can be dangerous yes but not when they have very limited priority in between wheels
i might go more stax route, Torpor Orb is banned in my playgroup but its a great hose i would run otherwise that has won tons of games, but the Waste Not and Chains of Mephistopheles strategies work quite well so far
6 days ago
if you play cedh you know that nekusar is far from tier 1.
i have won on turn 1 many times and turns 2-4 otherwise. it depends on rng and lock. i have won turn 1 with rng with a Winds of Change causing my opponents to start the game with no lands in hand and scoop
i have won turn 2 many times starting with various ramp spells and creating a game lock with Teferi's Puzzle Box + Chains of Mephistopheles and/or Notion Thief to nuke your hand and prevent anyone from drawing anything
nekusar isnt a cedh commander. this deck is a "competitive nekusar" deck but that doesnt quite make it a top tier deck. i simply love nekusar and wheels so i used money, research and play experience to make him as consistent and competitive as possible.
that being said i do run a lot of the same cards as tier 1 grixis storm cedh so i dont know where your claim comes from if you havent played the deck. but yes it will never be tier 1 cedh.
its worth noting that ive had the deck since 2013 and it was better back then, and also worth noting my entire LGS wont play against this deck since its too strong or unfun.. but it can win on turns 1-3 fairly consistently.
1 week ago
Stax commanders aren't just anything, they have to help break parity under stax. Think Teferi, Temporal Archmage untapping lands when you have a Stasis, Krenko, Mob Boss pumping out tokens to kill under enough Sphere of Safety effects while not casting anything else for victory.
Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip is a great example of how to build stax in the opposite way of these previous examples. Stax in cEDH is commonly based around making casting spells impossible, because of them costing too much, or their lands being tapped, they are mana-based hate stax lists.
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf is a good example of the other side to that idea, in which you make their hands to shredded that they can't cast anything, whether or not they have mana. These have the downside of their opponents having the ability to top-deck out of a normal creature lock, but Liliana's +2 is on a walker, so not nearly as much removal hits it, and while Chain of Vapor or other bounce effects still hurt it, that is normally about it, with some minor exceptions.
These types of commanders are greatly important to supporting your gameplan of staxing out your opponents, but, like Krenko, Mob Boss, sometimes a way to win when you get a bunch of effects that stop everyone from winning normally, such as a grindy engine are required. Erebos, God of the Dead is a good example of that type of stax commander. Building a deck that can rely on an indestructible enchantment in the Command Zone is very freeing, and allows the deck to do things that are card inefficient, such as Dark Ritualling out a Trinisphere turn one, which the lost card advantage can be bought back later on in the game.
Both commanders have some level of stax synergy to them, whether or not that makes them high powered is up to interpretation and what list you are using. Black isn't the best mono-colored stax color (White or Blue are! Probably blue.) yet still give a lot of interesting synergy, such as Dark Confidant, Mindblade Render, Phyrexian Arena and other grind engines, as well as good stax cards, from the overbearing Nether Void to the classic Chains of Mephistopheles
1 week ago
Spirit of the Labyrinth is too strong to not play imo. Even better would be Chains of Mephistopheles, the antisynergy with cantrips isn't that problematic when you consider it in deckbuilding and playing...on top of that Rule of Law, Arcane Laboratory and/or Eidolon of Rhetoric are really strong choices for a control Zur.
We have a control Zur in our local playgroup, if you want to compare:
Commander / EDH*
1 COMMENT | 20 VIEWS
It's in the tuning process, so not finished at all, but it already works fine. While Zur is a great engine, you shouldn't rely on him too much and you also won't need too many targets because being able to search two or three turns in a row must already be enough...you can't really expect to get more uses from the commander because everyone knows that letting Zur attack isn't a trick.
3 weeks ago
Nath is a popular discard-stax commander, that uses Necrogen Mists, Sadistic Hypnotist, Oppression, and Bottomless Pit along with a lot of general value cards like Root Maze, Manglehorn, Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void, The Abyss, Magus of the Abyss, green ramp like Birds of Paradise along with colorless rocks to pump its commander and other colorless stax options out onto the field.
Otherwise, the deck runs a normal Golgari-Stax deck, running black-tutors to fetch the colorless silver bullets like Sphere of Resistance against non-Prossh Food Chain lists like Tazri and green to make enough mana to still win.
Other notable cards sometimes run in this strategy are Mind Slash, Cryptolith Rite, Chord of Calling (with tokens it ends up decently), fast mana to cast Nath like Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, Grim Monolith, etc.
Ishkanah is the best golgari Food Chain list in the format, with Demonic Tutor, Grim Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, etc. to fetch the Chain, and to fetch Eternal Scourge there are a ton of green and black tutors.
With Delirium so easy to get between fetchlands, instants, sorceries, and Lotus Petals, Commune with the Gods and other self-mill cards milling over creatures and artifacts, etc. You can reasonably make infinite spiders with Food Chain, and if you can pay Ishkanah's cost you win.
3 weeks ago
Thanks very much. I wasn't sure if one saying "may" and one "must" made a difference, but apparently it doesn't.
I'm sure it was at least incidental, but the Chains of Mephistopheles example is a very appropriate response to my intentionally unununconvoluted question, and for this you get both internet brownie and cookie points.
3 weeks ago
Most of the card advantage in this deck comes from cards that say things other than draw (Only Solemn Simulacrum and Greater Good). A card like Chains of Mephistopheles can take advantage of this unique deck stat. If the average deck follows the Command Zone's direction of including 10 draw card spells, you could disable 10 percent of most deck's out there. It also wouldn't shut down decks or appear over powered, it just wouldn't allow anyone to gain card advantage from cards that say draw on them.
4 weeks ago
Wait... what stax do you run? Stax is general, tax (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sphere of Resistance, Suppression Field), hate (Scavenging Ooze, Stony Silence, Aura Shards), sacrifice (The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Smokestack), tapping (Root Maze, tanglewire, and Winter Orb), and land destruction (Ruination, Armageddon, etc.)
You run some sacrifice effects, maybe 6 that only affect creatures, but stax here is super light, you sure you know what stax is?
(P.S. occasionally Gaddock Teeg, Rule of Law, etc. are also considered stax because they stop players from playing cards, similar to a harsher tax effects, and also mass, repeated discard like Sadistic Hypnotist, and some random effects like Spirit of the Labyrinth and Chains of Mephistopheles)