|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Uncommon|
|Ice Age (ICE)||Uncommon|
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Name a card. Remove the top six cards of your library from the game, then reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal the named card. Put that card into your hand and remove all other cards revealed this way from the game.
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Demonic Consultation Discussion
1 day ago
2 weeks ago
michaelvdhout Carpet checks nonbasics with the island land type, Hushwing Gryff affects ETB's, not cast triggers like Paradox Engine, Ethersworn Canonist shuts down 14 out of the 18 tier 1 lists's combos, as long as it sticks.
I will admit, the list thaqt is up there isn't my favorite, and I have argued repeatedly with biopouvoir over some of the card choices, but respect the list there enough to understand its power level. It is very good, not as you state. My personal list is Sisay Primer (Stax-Combo), it explains all of the card choices and even how to play the deck.
I'll admit you are right, Kess can be a bit of a glass cannon, and even with all of the great interaction, when your Chain of Vapor gets Mental Misstepped as they draw their card off of a cantrip on an empty library and a Laboratory Maniac, all off of a Demonic Consultation and Kess, Dissident Mage turn 3, with no one else having up a removal spell, the deck wins.
It wins off of speed and consistency of combo alone, and though like you, I was suspicious of it in comparison to its Grixis Twin counterpart, I played against it multiple times, and was sometimes thoroughly crushed, It is just a really fast deck at what it does, and unlike some decks, it gets its combo, it isn't a maybe, it will get it. (I mean technically it is a maybe, but the deck runs so much to get the combo, and has such a stupidly good commander for the job it almost always has the combo.)
Also, there are two decks located under Kess, of which are Consulation, the deck you complained about, but also a really efficient Kess Storm deck. I like both, but Kess Storm is actually my favorite, despite me thinking it to be worse than Consultation in terms of consistency, however Dark Ritualing, then recasting it from the graveyard to get 5 black on turn 4, after you cast Kess, Dissident Mage off of a 2 CMC Rock, previously countering spells and/or removing stuff, then casting an Ad Nauseam, winning the game off of a 5 mana draw 30 or something stupid xD. It is great.
Also, asking others to do research for you, when you haven't done a ton is a little rude.
2 weeks ago
The main problem is trying empty yourself out and also having a card draw in hand when you go for the lab man win. I would also recommend lowering the curve for your exile stuff. Here might be some cards to help you win faster or be more consistent.
- Demonic Consultation
- Surgical Extraction
- Gitaxian Probe
- Thought Scour
- Frantic Search
- Windfall/Dark Deal
As for what Doombeard1984 said, tutors are your best ways in Dimir colors to access your win-cons. You can also use a self-mill type theme or Doomsday if you want but that goes away from the theme you are creating. You can use tutors like Entomb to put labman in grave than Unearth or Reanimate him than casting Demonic Consultation and calling a card not in your deck exile your whole library before using a card draw spell to win. This combo only takes 4 mana.
Hope that helps!
3 weeks ago
After playtesting Zur with different builds (refer to my comment from a few months ago), I've found the Tainted Pact / Demonic Consultation version with instant shimmer win to be the most superior version. Tainted pact/Demonic consultation can get us Isochron/Reversal/Reservoir during our necro endstep. I added in more instant speed draw (and recovery), which is really pulling its weight, especially since I've had situations before where I have topdeck tutors and mana at the endstep, but no instant speed card draw. Overall the build I ended up with - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tainted-shimmer-storm/
has the lowest CMC of all my decks - 1.69, and makes the endstep necroing much more reliable and almost sure to win. Let me know what you think and why would you consider a High Tide Doomsday build to be superior to Tainted Pact & Demonic Consultation (which you can play during endstep).
1 month ago
After checking out my Thrull Tribal deck....I'd recommend the following:
1 month ago
1 month ago
I would add Doomsday as an alternative way to get rid of your library. Losing single pieces of this deck can be a huge problem because you only win with lab man...maybe add a Praetor's Grasp to get win cons from other people just in case your lab man is gone?
Amalgam enters EOT, so it won't help with casting dread return.
Cards you should add or at least consider imo: Ad Nauseam, Angel's Grace (would be your backup win con - draw deck, kill with Windfall), Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress, Dimir Signet, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Mox Opal, Windfall, Timetwister, Reanimate/Unearth (you can build better Intuition piles and recover important dead creatures), Shallow Grave, Spellseeker, Demonic Consultation, Tainted Pact (it's also just a bigger Impulse if you aren't going to use it as combo with lab man yet), Yawgmoth's Will, Dark Petition, Praetor's Grasp
1 month ago
Very simple reason, the meta has shifted, and Jeleva storm decks are better as Kess. Kess doesn't need to stick on the table for a whole turn to have value, It doesn't have a 'chance' to hit something good. Kess allows you to double the value on every tutor you have, turning a Demonic Tutor into a 2-card combo that instantly wins, with Laboratory Maniac and Demonic Consultation.
Jeleva was much better when Leovold was around, because it allowed a dekc that might have card draw, or additional card draw turned off, and gave it serious ammunition, yet has less inherit value without it.
Kess storm is also similarly powerful to Jeleva Storm, and Kess Turns is only a little worse, really Kess is almost a strictly better varient to Jeleva in the current metagame, when choosing what commander to helm your deck.
Twin, Consultation, Turns, Control, and Storm are under Kess's toolbox of type of deck, which means that opponents that see a Kess won't immediately know what deck they are playing against, are they going to go infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on turn two with Buried Alive for Pestermite, Kiki, and Phyrexian Delver + Reanimate, or are they going to get turns, Lab Man me out? I don't know.
That level of uncertainty, power, and generally better card advantage than Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge leads me to understand that you might not have a serious grasp on what commander to pick. Jeleva is a fast storm deck, and Kess is that and everything else.
When it comes to big-stuff with an awful mana curve and no real way to tutor to top I don't think cEDH is the place at all for this deck.