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|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Uncommon|
|Ice Age (ICE)||Uncommon|
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Demonic Consultation Discussion
1 day ago
Easy, go with something like Kess Consultation, a Laboratory Maniac list that goes:
Kess, Dissident Mage + tutor.
Tutor for Demonic Consultation , cast Consultation and name Laboratory Maniac , recast consultation from the graveyard with Kess, naming something you don't have in your deck. Exile deck, draw a card, win the game.
1 day ago
3 days ago
As for Niv Mizzet, I need to know the ruling on cards that contain (for example) UW, but are Numot, the Devastator , so aren't just UW, and if I could take that as the Azorius card in the pack. If so it is a 9/10, if not it is only a 5/10.
5 days ago
I wanted to take this time to go over every card I think that will play a role in the EDH format from War of the Spark.
I will grade cards based on how many colors they require, how useful they are in how many decks, and will note where and why each could see EDH play.
Because there are 36 different planeswalkers, I think the planeswalkers are the proper place to start with this list.
The first ones I want to go over are the rare and mythic planeswalkers that will see play like the normal planeswalkers; value engines:
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - 9/10 - This card is a really good engine at 6 CMC in black. It has serious tribal synergies, aristocrats synergies, hits each player on the -4 (which draws you cards), and feels like a better Elspeth, Sun's Champion for black. It is worth it in most 75% black lists and any casual deck that can afford it.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World - 7/10 - Mono-green card? two color decks can use it too, but seriously a powerhouse. Mana doublers are always nice, and while green is perhaps already the best at ramp and so may not need it, but it does also untap a land per turn giving you ~2 additional mana, and the ultimate is insane. The issue with it as a mana doubler is that, being a planeswalker it can just die. It does, however protect itself. Seems possibly great, but probably just another really strong green ramp 5 drop.
Jace. Wielder of Mysteries - 7/10 - This card appears to be a normal Jace Phyrexian Arena effect for most mono-blue decks, but can be really strong givne you are a blue-black deck. If you can afford triple , I think using it with Demonic Consultation , naming a card outside of your deck so you exile your deck, then draw a card with Jace's +1, winning the game. It is a cheeky combo, but I see this card perhaps using it to win some number of games.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God - 6/10 - I know I am not super high on this card, but that mana cost is really the issue. Otherwise, it is a great walker once it hits, giving you huge card advantage, 4 cards in your favor with each opponent exiling and you drawing, and the static gives you a lot of advantage in a planeswalker deck or against them. It has removal, it has a lot. The ultimate seems... weak? Not bad, however.
Ugin, the Ineffable - 6/10 - Great walker for colorless decks. So far all of the colorless walkers has been good before, but they have been good outside of just colorless decks, however, I don't think that makes this bad.
Tamiyo, Collector of Tales - 5/10 - 2 colors makes this worse, and being singleton the +1 isn't great, but the static ability makes up for that a lot, giving it serious value. The +1 is self-mill, so you need a deck that can abuse that to get true mileage out of it. Even without, the -3 is Regrowth and I think is very strong. It feels about right for the mana cost, but need to be in a self-mill deck, or needs to be in a metagame wiht a lot of discard/sacrifice effects running around.
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds - 5/10 Green walker that draws you a card a couple of times maybe and has some flash use. It doesn't seem bad, but not something particularly powerful outside of green lists that need more card advantage or selection.
Chandra, Fire Artisan - 4/10 Red Chandra with card advantage. Static and ultimate seem medium. Not much better in many ways than the enchantment varients on this.
The more specific walkers that need a specific strategy are listed here. I rated them out of ten, only for decks in which they fit, like lifegain for Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord .
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer - 9/10 - Stellar card for artifact decks with the loyalty ability. It works with numerous other archetypes, however, token strategies like Brudiclad, spellslinger decks that storm off and now have a token army to back it up, etc. It works in walker decks and protects walkers whenever you cast more. It is just really strong for its cost, which is very versatile.
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge - 7/10 - A
Ajani, the Greathearted - 5/10 - Good in some W/G walker decks or some +1/+1 counter lists? Bad +1 makes this medium, and you can only use the -2 twice... Still strong as effects go and low cost.
Gideon Blackblade - 5/10 - A white-weenie aggro card that gets around your own sweepers, protects other creatures, and is really good with the -6 as well. Lifegain and other combat tricks aren't bad on this either.
Ral, Storm Conduit - 5/10 - A storm combo card, that has some value effects. It doubles spells and could be strong in some spellslinger lists.
Ob Nixilis,the Hate-Twisted - 4/10 - Good walker for Nekusar, not gonna see play much outside of that.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord - 4/10 - Mass lifegain anthem effect, some targetted damage, and reanimation makes this pretty strong.
Sarkhan the Masterless - 4/10 - Good for dragon decks? Not really great in them, but can see play there.
Domri, Anarch of Bolas - 4/10 - REamp, anti-counter, and anthem effect. Not bad.
Here are the hate-planeswalkers, cards that aren't value engines, but reall like hate enchantments.
Narset, Parter of Veils - 10/10 - Not even bluffing, an effect like Notion Thief or Leovold that doesn't die to creature removal, this is mono-blue, gives you card advantage, and has a high loyalty for its mana cost. It could be really scary with Windfall effects.
Karn, the Great Creator - Becasue sideboards aren't allowed if a single player in the pod doesn't allow them I won't be going indepth with the Mycosynth Lattice combo. Liquimetal Coating is another combo that llows you to destroy lands with the +1, and can kill 0-mana artifacts. It is pretty powerful as a one-sided Null Rod too. Great anti-artifact card.
Ashiok, Dream Render - 7/10 - Anti-graveyards, self-mill or opponent mill, and anti-search? This card hates on a ton of really powerful effects, and is entirely one-sided.
Dovin, Hand of Control - 5/10 - Not a great stax-piece, but technically one. Feels anti-storm. Had benefits against voltron as well.
Teyo, the Shieldmage - 3/10 - You have hexproof, protects itself a bit, great in a deck that uses walls however.
Outside of walkers, there are a ton of other great cards, I will go over the following in sets of cards:
Blast Zone - 10/10 - Perhaps the best card in the set, there are extremely few decks I wouldn't put this in. It is a land that can hit any non-token, nonland, non-0-CMC permanent given some time, enters untapped, and taps for mana too, unlike Maze of Ith or other effects I'd argue are almost worse.
Emergence Zone - 7/10 - Bad flash enabler, but colorless and to all effects, beating Winding Canyon by enabling non-creatures. Enters untapped, for mono-colored decks that want this effect, no reason (mostly) not to run it and not bad.
Karn's Bastion - 6/10 - Needs to be in an infect, +1/+1 counter, or planeswalker deck, but it can do work. Sadly in a deck like Atraxa, I don't think it'd be great since colorless mana is hard to run in the landbase. Still good in numerous decks.
Interplanar Beacon - 4/10 - Strong for some walker lists, that is about it.
Mobilized District - 3/10 - Basically just a wall for some walker decks. If it gets to be free or 1 mana and becomes pretty worth it.
Bolas's Citadel - 10/10 - A huge engine, hard to cast, can fail with double land, but just wins games. Few black decks would miss this in the 75% or casual circles. Like a free-cast Ad Nauseam forever. Comboes with both of Sensei's Divining Top 's abilities.
Vivien's Arkbow - 7/10 - It lets you discard bad cards to hit creatures when you are losing steam and have tons of mana. Really powerful.
Parhelion II - 5/10 - I don't care that this isn't good... look at it...
Oh god I love this. Angellic Helicarrier of DOOOM!!!! <3
BTW the other 2 are bad in EDH
God-Eternal Bontu - 5/10 - Great in Aristocrats, can be really strong for draw, is really hard to kill.
God-Eternal Oketra - 5/10 - Great in some white decks like Karametra, would be a sweet commander with effects like Whitemane Lion , Kor Skyfisher , Stonecloaker , etc. to trigger her a ton of times. Sweet with Odric, Lunarch Marshal , with a token and her out all of your creatures gain doublestrike and vigilance!
God-Eternal Kefnet - 4/10 - Not sure where this fits? It is card advantage, and could work in some decks that draw on opponents' turns? I am not thinking this is a great card. Good Body and is pretty strong with the god invulnerability effect.
God-Eternal Rhonas - 4/10 - Green five-drops are often better than this. Not bad, just kind of not a strong ability. Good with other anthem effects as a finisher if you have some trample enabler.
Finale of Devastation - 9/10 - Reanimate and tutor a creature to the field? This seems incredible. Green Sun's Zenith that also reanimates a card is huge! Also, like instant win if you use it at x=10+
Finale of Promise - 7/10 - Also really strong, this card seems to be for spellslinging. Requires instants and sorceries to double up on freecasting, but is still good.
Finale of Glory - 6/10 - Big White Sun's Zenith at sorcery speed with huge benefit at x=10+. Seems strong? I can't say taht the vigilance on the tokens are bad, but being a sorcery it isn't hard to sweep.
The following cards are not part of a cycle:
Liliana's Triumph - 8/10 - A great removal spell that doesn't target creatures, players, and is instant speed. It is 2 mana, splashable, and gets around indestructible. If you run Lilianas, that is just gravy on top.
The Elderspell - 7/10 - Anti-walker, really good at what it does, and can be used in conjunction with other walkers to hit a fast ultimate!
Narset's Reversal - 7/10 - Just a strong counterspell option, that acts like a Remand or Venser, Shaper Savant with different upsides. Really strong because it gets around "can't be countered" cards, and copies really game-ending x-spells while bouncing them back at the same time. I expect tons of 2-for-1s with this.
Dovin's Veto - 7/10 - Better Negate at the cost of an additional color in its cost. Really strong, and will see tons of play IMO. U/W control variants will take this card and run it over other control decks for some serious power.
Deliver Unto Evil - 7/10 - Strong political card, godly with a Nicol Bolas walker. Feels like it could be breakable, but I don't know how yet.
Neoform - 7/10 - Strong tutor like Eldritch Evolution , doesn't exile itself, adds a +1/+1 counter, etc. I see it with +1/+1 counter decks, or just Simic Creature lists in general I imagine fetching Eternal Witness then recurring this then sacrificing E-Wit will become a common playline to go from 2 drop to 4 drop.
Ignite the Beacon - 6/10 - Walker decks will use this to great effect, but it just seems powerful for some non-walker decks that have a few. Instant speed I really think makes it good for control decks holding up mana for countermagic.
Single Combat - 6/10 - Really good sweeper in white, a color with a ton of really good sweepers, but still, it is strong and will go into a lot of white lists. Don't underestimate this in decks with 0 or just a few walkers/creatures, it gives you turns on many opponents.
Dreadhorde Invasion - 6/10 - Good in zombie tribal, otherwise on its own it seems... weak? It isn't bad, and as a value engine has potential in token and +1/+1 counter strategies, as well as just lists that want chump blockers each turn. Worse Bitterblossom for many decks. Where it shines in in combos with sacrifice outlets and Contamination !
Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin - 6/10 - New Krenko that isn't broken, but is less maan and is a great addition to any goblin deck, while making tokens? Sign me up! The flavor is dripping on this card, and it is a really good tribute to the Mob Boss himself.
Solar Blaze - 5/10 - Not exactly much better than Day of Judgment , and even Deafenning Clarion may be better in some decks, but for decks, with specifically higher toughness than power it can be a one-sided sweeper!
Massacre Girl - 5/10 - Black sweeper, good with big demons? I can't see this being insane, or even a big commander, but could make for a fun control commander, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this in flicker lists.
Domri's Ambush - 4/10 - +1/+1 counter, one-sided fight, hits walkers, instant speed? Seems strong as a budget removal spell in Gruul, but has capabilities in many other lists as a real piece.
Kasmina's Transmutation - 4/10 - Anti-commander enchantment, but unlike Darksteel Mutation , which doesn't leave chump-blocking on the table to kill it off, or even most removal spells, this one doesn't have that bonus. Good in budget blue decks, and will probably see a lot of EDH play in casual circles.
Arboreal Grazer - 4/10 - Strong in decks like Tatyova, Benthic Druid , big land-ramp decks or land-matters for it's 1 cmc effect. Chump duty after. Doesn't seem bad.
Dreadhorde Arcanist - 3/10 - Requires pump effects, self-mill, or a spell-slinging deck, and a lot of setup, and can be blocked without too much difficulty, but does have some power. Not sure where it fits.
This will be updated with ~30 more really cool cards from War of the Spark!
5 days ago
PhotogenicParasympathetic (love the name, forgot to mention that prior)
I think we are in agreement. Wizards should print walkers that aren't busted in the command zone from time to time, but not just make all walkers commanders. I love Aminatou, Teferi (the one that can be your commander), the commander Saheeli, the Izzet partner commanders, etc. I just don't think retroactively adding the commander text to all walkers is smart.
PlatinumOne I hope you didn't play in Theros Standard with Elspeth. It was a card that, due to its high mana cost, and lack of immediate impact, outside of a Captain's Call , wasn't expected to be strong. It took over standard, however, because if you didn't have creatures to deal with it, you'd die to tokens. If you didn't have creatures with trample, you'd get chump-blocked. If your creatures with trample don't have at least be ~4/4, they'd get triple blocked and killed. If the opponent DOES have those creatures, they get swept.
There were weaknesses, small evasive creatures, with flying, etc. can get in, removal for walkers is strong, giving them just the Captain's Call of value, or just a sort-of sweeper. Counter it. Fine. You won't be able to beat it though because it is a commander. It can be recast. It has value forever and is incredibly potent. UW Control in Modern, most every white standard list at the time, etc. It has shown to be a potent card.
I will say I agree with you on a lot. Kokusho, the Evening Star isn't a broken commander. It is a vulnerable deck, and isn't a strong deck compared to cEDH decks, nor is such a one-card engine like Elspeth that it can have a lackluster deck behind it and still do well in casual circles. You need to run reanimation, and most good reanimation costs a lot of money, so the deck sort of requires the money that would generally place it in higher circles than the casual crowd.
I only mentioned that cards like Doubling Season might be a problem for its price. Not effect. There are 20 worse combo enablers I can think of off of the top of my head. Laboratory Maniac / Demonic Consultation / Tainted Pact ... ugh. Anyway, for price concerns, I think you can see the issue, but if it got reprinted into the ground, along with Deepglow Skate / The Chain Veil , I would have no issues with it as a card.
The only true combo I see being broken is Tezzeret the Seeker never has mono-blue had a commander fetch the whole of a combo on its own, with just mana to cast it. Arcum Dagsson takes artifact creatures, and roughly 20 more cards in the deck to go off than a Tezzeret the Seeker deck, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage being the only deck close to Tezzeret, of which Teferi being a tier 1 cEDH deck I'd argue is only about ~2/3rds the power of Tezzeret is the issue. If the best decks in the format are only ~2/3rds the power of a deck (up to debate of course), then that deck is the new best deck in the format, with no decks equal to it.
Because of Fast mana and proper comboing, I expect this deck to average wins with interaction on turn 2-4. The average cEDH fast-combo deck can wins on turn 2-4 without interaction, and turns 3-5 with interaction from the opponents. I play mostly cEDH, and can say this deck is really scary. Against the current field I'd estimate a near 40% winrate, up from 25% for an average 4 player game.
That is my fear. Can you at least say ban Tezzeret or just not get mhim to be a commander if we make this change?
BTW Ugin sounds sweet as a commander.
1 week ago
My bad on reanimate; fair enough with prelate - personally I'd view cutting off all 1/3 drops just the best course of action for stopping all removal.
Thinking about it logically, daxos also does "win" with infinite mana. I'm personally biased against combos utilizing mill as a strategy, as I frequently play Gitrog. If an opponent has Altar of the Brood / Altar of Dementia I'm all over the place with happiness, as the card advantage is like running Compost in a heavy black meta. Conversely it's fun to see tears roll down their face at the unplayable card outside of the combo.
I understand that authority is redundant blind obedience- my interest is in its effectiveness. I like your use of other cards though, and tbf using cards like Aegis of the Gods is surprisingly relevant.
After some thought I see Daxos's value. With infinite mana he does a lot - so well argued. I suppose it's just my own prejudice of playing Serra's Sanctum that makes me feel it's great - though beneath a Winter Orb effect the card puts in work.
Have you considered Grasp of Fate ? Despite this not being zur, it's still one of the best removal spells in the format.
Lastly I feel that your build contains a lot of condensed, easily built combos with redundancy. If you were to jazz up the manabase, would you consider Demonic Consultation / Tainted Pact in order to facilitate faster wins? I've mostly seen it used in bomberman lists such as breya/labman, but you'll easily be able to slip daxos & tokens over once you've landed any win condition.
1 week ago
"The absolute champion of inexpensive dig spells, this card was included since overall the deck is only looking to assemble 2 cards to win the game. Considering that Plunge into Darkness is specifically in line with digging for specific cards, we have included this card to improve the deck’s consistency. In testing, there are some worthwhile notes to share. The first is Plunge a little more conservatively than you would in a deck like Food Chain Tazri. It’s possible you plunge very deep (~30 cards) and then exile your win conditions looking for the card you need, so take care to factor in what else you need to create and utilize your infinite mana engine. On average, look to dig about 8-15 cards blind. If you have other parts in hand, then you can begin to increase your Plunge depth. Ideally, Plunge deep if you really just need a single card, and be more reserved the more parts you are missing. Worst case scenario on a miss, it will replace itself with another relevant card like more draw or a counterspell. "
"We are very often looking for specifics, and this card again is a way to zip through the deck and find single cards with high consistency. Later on, when we talk about alternate packages, one of those includes Laboratory Maniac and Demonic Consultation , which will use this card as combo redundancy. However without Maniac it is another tutor thanks to the singleton manabase."
I'm not a fan of plunge personally since this deck relies so heavily on Ad Nauseam and to a lesser degree Bolas's Citadel that the life loss is a significant downside. It's still a reasonable inclusion if you're a fan of the card.
That being said adding Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac is a fine choice too if you feel like you want more win conditions and tutors in your deck. Labman combo performs well against most stax pieces which are usually a pain to deal with storm/Nauseam builds. Just remember to pact protection so your labman won't get removed at a critical time! Lastly I'll link my other Thras/Silas PST deck for more reference akin to this style of gameplay: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bug-paradox-storm/
1 week ago
Bonus Round + Demonic Consultation is game on it's own and if you're familiar with ReverseMermaid's list it can give you a win without the use of obvious permanents and you don't have to play dead cards
Demonic Consultation occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%