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Demonic Consultation Discussion
2 hours ago
so here we go with the others
first off seriously how come Platinum Angel isn't here? its a safety net
i notice Hive Mind is a card so this cycle should helphttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&name=+%5Bpact%5D&set=%7C%5B%22Future%20Sight%22%5D
- Sprouting Phytohydra + Pestilence/Pyrohemia
- Saproling Symbiosis
- Storm Herd
- oh and all the token doublers Parallel Lives/Anointed Procession are the cheapest
- Infinite Reflection
- Progenitor Mimic
- Rite of Replication this is the most important one
- Spitting Image
- Thought Lash
- Divining Witch/Demonic Consultation (also works with Approach of the Second Sun)
- Enter the Infinite
- Inverter of Truth
- Angel's Grace
- Soulgorger Orgg
- Sustaining Spirit
- Fortune Thief
- anything spell/permanent that involves paying any amount of life my favorite isMinion of the Wastes because this works with Mayael's Aria as well
- Serra Avatar
- Progenitus (promo versions are only $5)
- Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage/Vampire Hexmage
- Primordial Hydra
just one thing Krark's Thumb
Darksteel Reactor/Azor's Elocutors/Helix Pinnacle
note: only proliferate
- Deepglow Skate (all other counter related stuff works too.)
- anything with proliferate Contagion Engine and Inexorable Tide are the best ones
- Kalonian Hydra (the ariel will work as well)
- Gilder Bairn
- Winding Constrictor
- if your are willing to spend this much money. Doubling Season but you can go without it
Felidar Sovereign/Test of Endurance
the celestial convergence win con takes this as well
- Kambal, Consul of Allocation
- Wall of Reverence (with that avatar i mentioned eariler you double your life every end step)
- Debt to the Deathless
- Any of the whenever one of your creatures ETB Soul Warden is the best one
- you have Banishing Light so the family members of this
- Kaervek's Spite trigger just before your turn
- Decree of Annihilation
Demonic Pactjust Bazaar Trader and Zedruu the Greatheartedand theres a few more enchantments you can do the exact same thing with Fractured Identity but you need platinum angel for a few of them though
Triskaidekaphobianothing everything you need for this one is here
Approach of the Second sunjust a couple more tutors thats itlast but not least
Mechanized Production/Hellkite tyrantthe biovisonary and epic struggle stuff works if the target is a creatureFractured Identity it works with leveler just as well as phage
23 hours ago
Eternal Scourge, Tainted Pact, Demonic Consultation, Buried Alive, Necrotic Ooze, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Mogg Fanatic, Oblivion Sower, Anger, Magus of the Moon, Harsh Mentor, Entomb, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, Necromancy, Void Winnower, Sire Of Insanity
1 day ago
Ok, so you have some interesting choices here, but to better suit the deck for cEDH, I think you may want to refocus it on being a combo/reanimator deck. One of the win line would still be to kill the table through a high sotrm count using either Ancestral Statue or Cloudstone Curio + eldrazis, but I think it should not be played as a storm deck, it should be played more like a combo/reanimator. That way, if you can't combo, you will still have some relevant targets to reanimate and some nice things to do.
Also, for this combo, I have found some interesting synergies that could help you tutor it pretty easily: Demonic Consultation/Tainted Pact(For this one we would need to rework the landbase). You also need to have Eternal Scourge in your deck as one of the eldrazi. The idea is to use one of the exile tutor to get Cloudstone Curio. This way, you have a lot of chance to put Scourge in exile, and with any other eldrazi either in your hand or on the battlefield already, you can storm/win on the spot. It is even better if you have an eldrazi with an actual cast effect that can win the game (Oblivion Sowerbeing the cheapest CMC wise at 6).
For the Ancestral Statuecombo, I think Nettle Droneis really nice. It would let us kill the entire table, and the Drone is not dead outside the combo: it would ease us into casting our commander, and it would later help reducing the mana cost of creatures we want to cast by 3. Even if they are less powerful, I would consider other pingers like Thermo-Alchemist (nice things to do is tapping him -> tutor a creature which untaps him-> tap him again for a total reduction of 6, enough for the Cloudstone combo above), Shepherd of Rot, Lobber Crew. Maybe also Heartless Hidetsugu, but it costs more mana, and I never tested it.
As for the reanimator part I talked about, I think it would synergize well with the combo aspect. We already need to draw a lot, so a lot of cards would go to the graveyard, and there are a lot of wheel effects in cEDH to help refill hands (not only from us but opponents also) like Wheel of Fortune. This could be ussed to put a lot of creatures in the graveyard. You could then reanimate them, stuff like Void Winnower, Sire Of Insanity are some really good reanimation targets in rakdos. We can run spells like Animate Dead, Reanimate, Dance of the Dead, Necromancy...
Going the reanimation route would let us cheat big eldrazis for the combo to work easier, if they ever die/get countered we have easier access to them. We could also even try a Buried Alive/Entomb combo with something in the likes of Necrotic Ooze + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Mogg Fanatic and something to give Ooze haste (like Anger in the graveyard). This could be a backup win condition that can be assembled easily by a single tutor, which is not to overlook.
2 days ago
My problem with 'optimized' list is they don't take in account meta specific cards.
GY decks are abundant in my meta with a a sprinkle of FC Tazri list and a couple of stacks decks. The rest are either casuals or total solitare decks. Hence my Prossh list reflects those changes.
I feel like a core 85-90cards can be set for any one deck but the last 10-14 are specific to Metas(hence the Paper player question).
Granted my FC Prossh is still a Shuffle Tribal deck, but it isn't "optimized by the tiered list above".My win rate is higher than 50% most weeks.(Sometimes Demonic Consultation just has it out for you.) Due to the fact I have interaction with my opponents a but more than the listed Prossh deck. I am not saying mine is better overall, just better for my meta. I really think we should have in these lists a 'core set of cards' and slot for 'flex spots' So people who didn't naturally come to build their own deck can understand what's a piece that can be taken out for a card they need for their meta
1 week ago
Been a while since I commented. I'll try to respond primarily to those points that others haven't already addressed.
Thought-Knot Seer is expensive to cast and doesn't really perform a vital function in this deck, given that its abilities don't have a high impact.
Stax is a challenge. This deck does have the means to outpace some stax decks by ramping extremely aggressively, but sacrifice engines in particular are effective at keeping utility creatures from having a great deal of impact. I haven't played in several years (apart from the casual 60-card game here or there), so I'm not really qualified anymore to assess how this deck competes with more modern Tier 1-Tier 2 stax decks.
This deck would rather not play Zendikar Resurgent or Mana Reflection because they need to be hard cast and are more difficult to find. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger would be a stronger choice in that respect (because it's Tooth and Nailable), but even then it hasn't made the cut. I leave that to players' discretion, though. Some people may find that the redundancy is important in their meta.
As a combo deck, this deck can normally outpace most noncombo aggro decks. Certain commander damage decks can pose a threat if unanswered. And don't forget that you can chump block with utility creatures if you have to. Surviving in a difficult position is preferable to being out of the game entirely.
I do feel that way about Consecrated Sphinx from time to time. Unfortunately, having not played in a true competitive multiplayer environment in a long time, I can't say with certainty whether it needs to be replaced. The mana cost is the biggest downside, but it's a powerful backup draw engine that's much less risky than Damia herself.
Stroke of Genius is serviceable, and there are ways to recur cards from the graveyard just as there are ways to get them back from the library. I use Blue Sun's Zenith because mana is not an issue by the combo turn and the win con is safer (from hate effects) in the library than in the yard.
Timetwister is an interesting choice, and certainly something that becomes more potent as this deck becomes faster. I would test it.
Arbor Elf ramps, but Crop Rotation does not. I'm not sure if they're comparable in terms of slot consumption. In some metas, the land tutor may be more important because there may be a greater dependence on cards like Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
I don't recommend playing Demonic Consultation unless you're playing Laboratory Maniac, and I don't really think this deck wants to play either (although it could be built in such a way that they're more viable). Demonic Consultation presents the issue of exiling potentially necessary win conditions in order to find a combo piece, and it's never really completely safe to use. Similarly, Tainted Pact isn't in the deck (and is actually covered in the "Omissions" section). I don't think there are many cases where I'd so desperately need a single card that I could risk potentially exiling every other card for it.
It's true that Crucible of Worlds is a good card, but every card in this deck is a good card. Crucible of Worlds doesn't really provide necessary functionality to this deck, though, so I wouldn't call it one of the best cards and similarly wouldn't be able to justify increasing its redundancy at the expense of some other functionality.
Lots of feedback there. I'll try to respond to as much as I have space for.
Rising Waters is an issue because this deck really wants to maximize its mana availability.
Future Sight was in a much earlier version of the deck, but was cut because the cost outweighed the value. Some people may prefer to run it, but I don't.
Pendrell Mists is a good stax card, but this isn't a stax deck. I'd rather keep my utility creatures at the risk of letting other people keep theirs.
Autumn's Veil has some potential. I've never really experimented with it in the 99, though.
Night's Whisper is not as preferable as a draw engine, in my opinion.
Notion Thief could be good in some cases, and I haven't actually tested it in the deck, but there weren't very many times where I think I would have (and would prefer to spend) the mana on it given its inconsistency from game to game.
Brainstorm was in an earlier version of the deck, and it could still justifiably be run given all of the fetch lands, but I prefer to spend the slot on other cards.
Baleful Strix doesn't really do enough to justify spending the mana.
Trinket Mage is a more expensive and more limited tutor than those already in the deck.
Arcane Denial is in the deck because it's a hard counter for , which I'll gladly take in the final turn.
Three Visits and Nature's Lore are important ramp cards and cannot be cut. Skyshroud Claim could potentially be cut on a cost basis, but it's very powerful and pays for half of its own cost on resolution.
Mindslaver is not something this deck needs. I don't really want to spend to control someone's turn if I could spend much less to get myself closer to actually winning. It's not good without a recursion combo or when facing multiple opponents.
Academy Ruins could be played, but I don't really need to recur any of the artifacts in this deck as much as I need access to on-color mana.
Omniscience is not necessary. My primary win con is an spell, which doesn't benefit at all from Omniscience and does benefit from an infinite mana combo (the latter of which enables just as many other cards as the former).
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
The others are right...this is just a Modern deck with Necropotence and Strip Mine, both of which are restricted in Vintage (yet you're playing multiple copies of both). This deck isn't even using any of the powerful R/B cards for Vintage or Null Rod.
Demonic Consultation, Demonic Tutor, Wasteland, Sol Ring, Dark Ritual, etc. aren't in here, but they should be. How else are you going to deal with the format's established archetypes, like Mentor, Dredge, or MUD? There isn't enough artifact hate (like Ingot Chewer) or ways to deal with your opponent casting a bunch of spells. Sudden Shock is missing in your sideboard to deal with Monastery Mentor.
I guess you can stroke your ego by beating up on some Standard decks?
1 month ago
What about Demonic Consultation ? Might be just a tiny little bit faster then the other tutors. Anyway, +1! That all-in-style reminds me of my old hatred deck.