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|Hour of Devastation (HOU)||Uncommon|
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*Abrade deals 3 damage to target creature.
*Destroy target artifact.
3 days ago
Here are my thoughts, in no particular order
Your land base is just 1 card away from running Tainted Pact for use with Labman lines. You should ditch that 2x island and run it. Also run the new Jace as a back up.
Omniscience + Show and Tell should be cut. Replace with Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter . Its a more compact win, doesn't have the opportunity to blow up in your face, combos with Top and Copy Artifact, and both pieces have higher quality than the pieces they are replacing.
You run a lot of large CMC junk cards that will either end as dead draws or don't win upon resolving. Consecrated Sphinx should be put into play with reanimation, but since you don't run you should cut. Bolas's Citadel is just a bad Ad Nauseum. The handful of wheel cards over 3 CMC should be cut. Why spend that time giving your opponents cards on a soft combo when you could be tutoring and winning with the very easy A + B of Labman + pact? Specifically, Time Spiral Wheel and Deal Reforge the Soul Whispering Madness . Replace those cards with more format staple counterspells and removal. Swan Song Dispel Flusterstorm Red Elemental Blast Abrade Shattering Spree .
Really not wild about Molten Psyche or Winds of Change either. You are losing card advantage on both (-1 to be precise). Notion Thief and Waste Not are both strong when used with a wheel, but it isn't worth devoting that many deck slots to combos that don't explicitly win. You would be better off running tutors instead, which will help you get whichever A or B part of the Notion Wheel combo you don't have in your hand.
You really don't need to run Mission Briefing if you are running Snapcaster AND yawgill AND past in flames.
You should highly consider Chain of Vapor as well as Hurkyl's Recall . Both allow you to gain mana and storm when combined with the mana positive rocks, which feeds into your Aetherflux Reservoir line. They also double as removal and can combo break opponents who are trying to win.
You should include Mana Vault , its much better than Basalt Monolith . Thought Vessel should also be cut, even Prismatic Lens is better. The no maximum hand size will literally never be relevant, because if you are drawing that many cards you should be able to win instead of passing the turn. If you do have to discard down to 7, just keep the 7 that allow you to win and protect the win. You should also run Chrome Mox because of the high card advantage you generate.
28 lands means you're in danger of getting staxed out, very easily. Any artifact hate with early taxes means you're caught and discarding cards for multiple turns. The land base you're running could also use a tune up. You should include the painlands Underground River etc. as they enter untapped and provide color diversity without extra requirements. The two-or-more-opponents lands I'm not a fan of, but playing in a pod means they'll be live. The two-or-fewer-lands lands I'm not a fan of, and firmly believe you should cut. Checklands are fine, but replaceable long term. You should also run more rainbowlands, specifically Forbidden Orchard Gemstone Caverns Tarnished Citadel . If you are running Tolaria West as a 0 drop tutor, don't count it as a land towards your total, if you're running it as an island, it comes out tapped so cut it.
Your cantrips are a bit goofy too. Thought Scour should be replaced with Sleight of Hand , which gives you more flexibility about the card you get as well as gets around draw restrictions such as Alms Collector or Spirit of the Labyrinth . Fact or Fiction is simply too much CMC. I'm personally not a fan of Scroll Rack but that's entirely your call.
Terminate should be Pongify or Rapid Hybridization . Its 1 cmc cheaper and less color intensive, and if you lose to a 3/3 token you were going to lose anyways. Notably, Kess can kill the token by blocking.
1 week ago
Alright lets break down your deck and take a peak.
Nothing too crazy with your land base. I'm not wild about the "two or fewer" lands, or the "two or more opponents" lands, but they work inside an EDH pod. Two or fewer is worse in my opinion. Forbidden Orchard is a card you should definitely consider, Gemstone Caverns as well. River of Tears is not reliable and I'm not a fan. Obviously the original Duals will serve you well here, but those are $$$.
Looks like your land base is trying to run High Tide as well as Tainted Pact . Those cards unfortunately aren't compatible, so you need to choose one package. I think Tainted Pact is a better choice because its a neat A + B with Laboratory Maniac , whereas you don't have a guaranteed outlet for all that High Tide mana. Consider trimming down to just 1x of all your lands, look at one time rainbow lands if you need budget Aether Hub Tendo Ice Bridge .
Simply put, you have too many win cons. Turn the slots from the weaker ones into support for your stronger ones.
Wanderwine Prophets is expensive to cast. It also requires combat damage to a player, meaning your combo is only live as long as you can swing freely. Regardless, its still a strong way to close games. You need to run proper support for reanimating. First, you need to increase reanimation density. Necromancy Apprentice Necromancer Exhume Shallow Grave . Next, you need to ensure you can get your reanimation targets to the graveyard. Careful Study is probably the only one I'd add, although there are certainly more options. Finally, it helps to have extra reanimation payloads in case Wanderwine is unavailable. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Consecrated Sphinx are both strong enough to cause you to run away with games from card advantage, most likely guaranteeing a win.
Next, Tainted Pact / Demonic Consultation + Laboratory Maniac . I think this is the strongest win condition you're currently running. Important that you pack density of "draw a card" effects to guarantee same turn winning. Make sure to optimize your land base so Tainted Pact is a guarantee!
Mind Over Matter + Azami, Lady of Scrolls is your weakest combo. Its needlessly expensive at 11 mana! The pieces are also the hardest to cast and tutor. The 4 blue in MoM makes it prohibitive sometimes, same with the 3 in Azami. The pieces are also found by the fewest amount of tutors you run, while the tainted pact combo is far more easily searchable.
Dualcaster Mage / Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Ghostly Flicker / Illusionist's Stratagem is also relatively weak. Requires you to hold then dump all the mana during the same turn, and 6-8 mana is not a fantastic range. The cards are also rather weak outside the combo, but not horrible. You can add additional value by getting more ETB creatures or blink effects for combo. Twinflame Heat Shimmer Cackling Counterpart Imperial Recruiter
Looks like you know what you're missing as far as moxen goes. You should also consider running the Signet cards, gives reliable ramp that avoids land hate. Also adds artifact density for when you get that Mox Opal . Wayfarer's Bauble is bad and should be cut.
You are lacking some card draw that would help you. Dark Confidant Mystic Remora Rhystic Study . Sensei's Divining Top works extremely well with fetchlands and would provide value here. Top would also allow value wincons to be inserted like Dramatic Scepter or Paradox Engine . Kess, Dissident Mage gives massive value here and helps you escape from grindy mid games against other control decks. Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister will obviously help here, but are $$$. Windfall is extremely strong as it neutralizes opponents who get massive card advantage early in the game, or helps you after you dump a fast hand.
Interaction and Removal
Pyroblast is worse than REB and you shouldn't run it. 13 counterspells is certainly too high, you can also cut another. You currently run three spells that can deal with a resolved enchantment, Chain of Vapor Galecaster Colossus and Venser, Shaper Savant . A Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory that has resolved ends your game. Galecaster is pretty low value and should be removed. Dismember both hits for a lot off of Ad Naus and costs a lot on your Ad Naus to be low costed to cast. You should swap it out for a sweeper like Pyroclasm or Earthquake , you already have strong targeted removal. Abrade is the exception, and should be added due to its flexibility.
You are definitely on the right track. Cast a critical eye towards anything 3+ CMC, as those greatly rob your Ad naus and are harder to cast. Archaeomancer and Galecaster Colossus specifically stand out as removes. Test out a few different Grixis flavored wincons and see which one feels the best based on the paper cards you have. Take a peek at Kiki Jiki + friends, as well as Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal . Kiki fits into reanimator, and dramatic scepter is extremely easy to slot and assemble. Test out Dualcaster/Meha with additional combo payoffs, because there are quite a few that let them combo off. Your deck is currently at a point where you need to start greatly considering card quality and slot intensiveness. The fewer slots, the easier to cast, the more the pieces have value alone outside the combo, the better. You also need to start considering the hate pieces other decks are going to run. How do you handle Torpor Orb for example?
2 weeks ago
I know you're running on a budget, but even then Shock and Lightning Strike are both really bad. You might consider running more Dive Down or Abrade , which will help protect your dudes. You also seem super light on lands. I'd recommend running at least 18.
1 month ago
Demarge Going heavier on black is something Inthought about as well. I've played out tons of hands with this deck and the ones that aren't completely unplayable usually have good t 1/2/3 options in both colors. I feel confident the balance is good.
As far as Chalice of the Void you're right my cmc are pretty diverse and each one has critical components I need. Here's what I was thinking.
- 0: Shutting off Walking Ballista/Hangarback, Mox Opal, EE, And THEIR Chalice provides me a huge benefit, and Affinity is a deck that has the potential to be a very complicated matchup if I don't draw into removal before Walker, Ravager, or Overseer hit the field.
- 1: Death's Shadow, Burn, Elves, Goblins, and potentially Phoenix/Storm. Against these decks, Chalice for 1 makes 70% of their deck unplayable. By T3 I would have probably capitalized on what 1cmc disruption I have, in addition to their fast tempo playing out their hand.
I say potentially for Phoenix/Storm simply because it would depend on the state of the game when I have it if it would be worth it or not. If I've managed to hold them off from pitching Phoenix, it could be worth it just to shut off their enablers and cantrips. I also have the same odds of playing Ensnaring Bridge , which game 1 is a complete roadblock against most Phoenix lists. Storm I think it would be less reliable, but again shuts off cantrips. Against storm I'd board them out and bring in Leyline of Sanctity , Bontu's Last Reckoning , and Smallpox .
- Anything above 1: Probably never see it here.
Post-SB: Against the decks I listed, Chalice is a huge hurdle that still has potential to be game ending, even factoring in sb hate cards like Abrade or Ancient Grudge . Any of the other relevant match-ups, I'd adopt more of the traditional removal strategy.
Honestly though, writing this made me question if there's a card I'd be able to utilize more consistently to help my strategy.
1 month ago
Thanks Demarge! I had Field of Ruin in the list originally over Ghost Quarter, but I thought that the downside of not replacing the land was worth the speed of not having to pay 2 extra mana for the ability. Plains could probably get dropped though, Flagstones of Trokair seems interesting didn’t think about it.
In my head I see the first turns of this deck always having access to removal or disruption, or maybe there’s enough early game plays to where I don’t have to worry about it. Thoughts?
Specifically against uwx Control if they try to race me with 1-for-1 removal like Disenchant , Abrade , or Nature's Claim I feel like the sheer volume of threats in the deck could hold up. Engineered Explosives is just a card that the deck will be vulnerable to no matter what since tokens cost 0, but it is what it is.
Ruinous Path isn’t a bad option for Planeswalkers, but there are still cards that an O-Ring is going to be awesome for, like Leyline of Sanctity or even a Blood Moon . Maybe Utter End or Anguished Unmaking ?
1 month ago
1st case: Opponent cast Murder on another creature. You respond with caged Mirage Mirror targetting a land, then before that resolves activate caged Spellskite . The spellskite ability resolves first and you retarget the Murder to Mairsil and hes considered a legal target so Spellskite limitation from the rules shouldn't apply. Then the caged Mirage Mirror resolves and turns Mairsil into a land. Finally Murder tries to resolve and at this point it should fizzle.
2nd case: I think there won't be need to sacrifice Mairsil att all in this case either. I cast Abrade on your Sol Ring . You activate Mirage Mirror 's caged ability targetting a land, the spellskite, then Mirage Mirror again, targetting Sol Ring . Now Mairsil becomes an artifact, then redirects Abrade to himself, then becomes a land and at the end of all of this Abrade should fizzle.
Rules sidenotes: (2011-06-01) The target of the spell or ability won’t change unless Spellskite fulfills all the targeting criteria, even if multiple instances of the word “target” are used. For example, you can’t change both targets of Arc Trail to Spellskite.
I'm reading this as "fulfills targetting criteria" by the time of the resolution of spellskite's ability, not the re-targeted spell. I'm sure the other guys here will correct me if I'm wrong so I'd wait for their opinion too just to be on the safe side about this interaction.
1 month ago
1 month ago
In EDH, when a player with a blue source and at least mana in other sources open on a field. It is a threat. It is a threat not because of a 7 mana spell, but a 2 mana spell, not a spell that deals damage, counters spell, destroys permanents, tutors, or cheats costs, but a bounce spell.
Cyclonic Rift , C-Rift, the big wave, whatever you call it, people know it as one of the strongest, most backbreaking spells in all of EDH, if not the best card in the format.
I am here to say that is isn't.
Part of my series on why other popular staples aren't good ( Phyrexian Arena , Rampant Growth ), or are simply not good in a specific way ( Rhystic Study ), I am not here to deny the power that a card like Cyclonic Rift has, but simply that it isn't a good enough card to warrant the hate or love that it receives.
Before I go over why it isn't good, I need to go over why at nearly every power level, it is good.
In casual EDH, the 50% or less, the Precons, the jank, lies it's the weakest state.
That is where all removal spells, sweepers, or countermagic is the weakest, especially bounce. If no one has threatening boards, why remove them. You'd rather spend 7 mana on a spell to improve yours most of the time, yet those games go long, the Cyclonic Rift acts as a Fog to save you, Sleep to get in for damage, or real removal if you use it on a player's end step if they have to discard just after.
Almost all cards that show heavy play at higher levels show some play at lower ones, and while the price-tag may limit it for most casual players, it does work.
At the 75% or the middle tiers of EDH, where I think EDH players mostly lie, it where it is the most powerful. IF it destroyed any number of target nonland permanents, it would be weaker, because of three reasons:
75% decks often use permanent-based engines to support their gameplan. Think Beast Whisperer along with a deck full of cheap elves, or Paradox Engine in a deck will a lot of Temple Bell effects and mana rocks.
These decks and their creators often expect opponents to remove threats, so have many threats to remove.
They try to protect against sweepers, the only punishing cards for going so wide, with anti-sweepers, think Heroic Intervention , or Boros Charm , and protect against some single-target removal with effects like Darksteel Plate .
Because of this, and because indestructible and hexproof don't protect against a mass bounce effect, along with Cyclonic Rift being the only mass bounce at instant speed that doesn't affect you at all, and doesn't target, it is truly the best anti-75% sweeper by many standards.
In the competitive setting, while not bad, it is mostly relegated to being a 2 mana Chain of Vapor or a Into the Roil that doesn't draw a card, that can let a combo deck get through stax locks once in a blue moon.
Don't get me wrong, being relegated to a slightly worse Chain of Vapor isn't an insult. Chain of Vapor is possible the best removal in cEDH, as decks like Kess consultation or P-Hulk variants Laboratory Maniac wins, and for 1 blue mana, or two in the case of Cyclonic Rift , you get to bounce their wincon as they draw off an empty deck, so they lose...
That is some powerful stuff.
So why isn't it the best EDH card, an efficient spell in nearly any metagame? 2 options for removal, one that crushes many lists and the other a sleek and useful trick?
Because it isn't hyper-efficient, nor is it unbeatable, nor is it irreplaceable.
To start, many cEDH decks that run it run consistent amounts of countermagic to protect it's possible great effect, and numerous cards could fit the spot. It isn't alone. Blink of an Eye , the second Into the Roil has been used over it in many combo lists that more mana-efficient options and many forget the slot all-together, in favor of a cantrip or other removal spell like Abrade or whatever. It isn't very dominant there, and so is easy to explain why it wouldn't be amazing there.
In casual lists, Cyclonic Rift costs about as much as half of many of the casual decks, or even more than some entire casual decks that I have seen. Bringing money-cards wins there, as would a Consecrated Sphinx that costs less money, and I'd wager would have more powerful an effect. Again, an easy argument, but I believe it works.
The really hard place to argue against Cyclonic Rift on the surface is the middle tiers. The 75% lists. Legitimately, I think it is because in the 75% players don't consistently a highly interactive 'metagame'. They just prefer to be interactive 'ingame'.
This comes down to theory, however, when a deck, for example, an elf list abusing the Llanowar Elves style effects along with untap effects to keep making mana, dumping it into something like Ezuri, Renegade Leader . All of that deck and many others get shut down by Null Rod . While that card may be less powerful than other cards against any random deck, as many players know exactly what decks they face, they can play to those decks.
This means general removal, like Anguished Unmaking may be worse if artifacts and walkers don't see much play, you'd rather Mortify . Or if instant speed doesn't help you much, as a lot of City of Solitude / Dosan the Falling Leaf effects exist in your meta, Vindicate , etc.
This is pretty basic knowledge, however, the point here is that there are many, many replacements for Cyclonic Rift in different metagames, and I want to share the ones, only in mono-blue, that in the 75% are why Cyclonic Rift is overrated.
This isn't to say it isn't the best, but that if many, many replacements cost way less $$$ and are occasionally better, that one card shouldn't be considered the best in every situation.
Aether Gale , sorcery, only hits six things, has to hit your things if you don't have enough targets of only your opponents, targets, etc. Yes, there are reasons this is clearly worse.
Why is it better? Politically, you don't have to hit cards from players you team with. Similarly, if you like the Howling Mine on someone's field, don't bounce it. Someone Banishing Light ed someone else's threat you can't deal with? Don't bounce it.
Also, 18 cents. Compared to ~20 dollars and I think it is a steal for budget lists.
Also, it is 2 mana cheaper, despite not being an occasional Disperse .
Evacuation , the downside is simple, it doesn't hit non-creatures, and bounces your own things.
The upsides are for decks that want their own things bounced. ETB effects like Mulldrifter (You can respond to the sacrifice on evoke if you want!), Archaeomancer (infinite sweepers by returning Evacuation , or just recur another card), Duplicant , Solemn Simulacrum , etc.
It is 5 mana too, still an instant, and is only 2-3 dollars right now.
Other options for this could be AEtherize , Whelming Wave , Inundate , Engulf the Shore , Profaner of the Dead , or Scourge of Fleets if you just want mass creature bounce, each with ups and downs, some that only hit opposing creatures, some that are instants, some with graveyard synergies, etc.
For mass nonland bounce that doesn't target? There are tons of options, plenty with lower mana costs than Cyclonic Rift .
Take Coastal Breach . It does a mass bounce for just 4 mana (with 3 opponents), leaving you enough to rebuild first, and being able to be cast much faster, making up slightly for the sorcery speed.
Or Crush of Tentacles , 6 mana? 5 mana and an 8/8, it needs to be in a deck with enough cheap drops to hit surge to be worth it, but an option.
Devastation Tide is a personal favorite, if you run Aminatou, Brainstorm , a lot of scry, Mystical Tutor , Long-Term Plans , Jace, the Mind Sculptor , or are lucky, it is a 2 mana bounce everything. Really strong, however, sorcery (unless you cast it with Miracle on an opponents turn.
Run really high mana cards? Displacement Wave can be better,
Like a big creature attached? Kederekt Leviathan . It even comboes with flicker effects, or can be repeated for 2 mana with an effect like Animate Dead or 3 mana at instant speed whenever with Necromancy in black/blue.
Only need to target one player for political reasons? River's Rebuke .
A lot of one color in the meta? Wash Out
Artifacts/Enchantments? Reduce to Dreams
Even outside of bounce effects, Ixidron can do work xD
Point is, there are options. Even outside of blue, sweepers that can get around the normal protection is seriously strong. Terminus , Hallowed Burial , along with most mass exile effects in white from Play of the Game to Final Judgement / Descend upon the Sinful to the new Urza's Ruinous Blast , etc. Mercilous Eviction in W/B, the -x/-x effects in black like Toxic Deluge or Black Sun's Zenith , etc. in any color, Perilous Vault exists.
These are half of why I think Cyclonic Rift is overrated. Not because it isn't great at what it does, but that it isn't that much better than the rest.
The other half is simple.
Every color (sorry colorless) has answers to Cyclonic Rift off the top of my head.
Black? Many lists abuse cards like Inquisition of Kozilek or other discard to remove powerful cards from opposing decks.
Green? Ugh... Yeah, I guess some colors don't have answers...
(Gutteral Response if they ever make hybrid legal in mono-colored xD)
That's all. Thoughts?
Abrade occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.09%
All decks: 0.1%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%