Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Legendary Creature — Eldrazi

When you cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, draw four cards.

Annihilator 4 (Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices four permanents.)

When Kozilek is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library.

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Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Discussion

NiceThings on Yidris, Fury of the Maelstrom

2 days ago

Wizno Glad to hear you like my suggestions. I like you've got a really solid deck here, and I'm looking to balance it out between having ways to end the game with combo, AND being a very goodstuff deck, because I feel Yidris especially being both 4 colors AND based around Cascade lends itself well to a goodstuff shell.

I realize because of this you may be less interested in what I'm removing but if you'll indulge me.

REMOVING:

Scourge of the ThroneWorld at WarTwo of the untap cards, I feel like if you're going for the combo these are fine since they get you there quicker, but in the build I feel like putting together, I'm happier with just the ones which end the game. I could be wrong, feel free to disagree.

Panharmonicon I liked your reasoning for adding it, but I feel like 6 cards out of 99 isn't enough reason to run something that doesn't end the game, It's good for sure but unless your deck is built around it. It'll sit on the battlefield doing nothing and paint a huge target on you, since people expect it to do some random broken things.

Darksteel Ingot

Rattleclaw Mystic and Birds of ParadiseThis is just my own personal opinion but outside of elves, I really don't like creature based ramp, seing as it get's accidentally killed by everything.

Unexpected Results

Gonti, Lord of Luxury

Vial Smasher the FierceI'm probably wrong about vial smasher, HOWEVER, I think she doesn't do enough. This deck seems like the kind that doesn't want to be a target, until it ends the game, Vial Smasher is free damage yes, but you're already so consistent in comboing, is it worth adding in a few points of damage, AND painting a massive target on your back.

Xenagos, God of Revels

Bloodgift Demon This could easily be Phyrexian Arena the two are basically interchangeable. Bloodgift can deal combat damage but costs more, and arena can be cascaded into easier, and is more difficult to interact with.

City of Brass

Mind's Dilation You already have plenty of you do a thing for free, adding a symmetrical effect that's so powerful seems counter intuitive

ADDITIONS:

Aetherflux ReservoirBloodbraid Elf

Exploration or Burgeoning You can fun both, but if you had to pick between them, I'd say it's Burgeoning, since at it's worst it's exploration on their turns for you, and at it's best you drop 4 lands in a turn cycle

Ancestral Vision

Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Mystic Confluence Since you're a cascade deck counterspells are risky. Confluence is one of the low risk high reward spells that do well with cascade. Could also be Cryptic Command but I like confluence more.

Rishkar's Expertise DO YOU LIKE DRAWING CARDS? I LIKE DRAWING CARDS. Could also Easily be Baral's Expertise depending on what the deck want's more

Some number of Signets, I personally er on the side of playing ALL the ones you can but I could be wrong, just so you don't have to look it up I'll list your choices bellow.

Golgari Signet

Simic Signet

Dimir Signet

Izzet Signet

Rakdos Signet

Gruul Signet

Since Green is your primary color, I'd prioritize Golgari, Simic, Gruul, and then Izzet, Rakdos, Personally my split would be

Simic, Gruul, Izzet, Rakdos.

Hope you like where I'm coming from. I know I'm diluting the combo, but this is just how I'd build Yidris, I think you've got something great here though.

NiceThings on Yidris, Fury of the Maelstrom

2 days ago

I really like what you're doing here and am planning on building this list with a few nerf's/changes to a little less pure combo and a little more 'goodstuffy.'

With the number of spells you're casting every turn I think it's a mistake to not run Aetherflux Reservoir since the card can just win you games out of nowhere.

In the Vein of ramp, I think it's very worth running the Burgeoning you get in the deck, along with maybe Exploration, and Signets which Iv'e found invaluable in these 4 col decks.

I'd also maybe consider adding back in Bloodbraid Elf, because relevant body and another source of cascade. If you have the money I'm sure an Ancestral Vision could also make an appearance as more card draw to fuel the deck is great.

One other potential change I think bears mentioning, is the addition of either Kozilek, Butcher of Truth , Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Elixir of Immortality Since the deck casts so many cards, free ways of shuffling them back in are worth looking at to basically reset the game and go from there.

Just my two cents, I love the deck and am going to have a bunch of fun tinkering with it.

Kebab_Kebab on Git Down With the Frog (Budget Gitrog EDH)

6 days ago

Try Gaea's Blessing, (or non-budget alternative Kozilek, Butcher of Truth )it enables you to self-mill infinitely, while gaining infinite mana without decking yourself in 1 turn. Fun with Exsanguinate

Daemon6437 on Eldrazi EDH... wait what?!

1 week ago

Kozilek, Butcher of Truth's last ability doesn't work when it's a commander, does it? Because it never enters the graveyard?

catrule3564 on Slaughterhouse 99

1 week ago

Honestly, all bannings aside, I prefer Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth as Commanders. They provide strong removal and card advantage respectivly, which is something that you don't get enough of in colorless commander decks. Emrakul is just big. She is really good at being big and terrifying, but that's all she really does. You have a lot of cards that can be big and terrifying, so I would try to use something with more utility as a commander.

This is just my opinion, of course. If you have fun playing Emrakul and your playgroup is okay with it by all means, you should just play Emrakul.

Your list looks really fun!

The_Traitor on In response...(Clique Duel EDH)

2 weeks ago

Hey just a question: Isnt the Emrakul completly banned now? I lookes it up like 2 days ago for my eldrazi Commander and the Internet told me its banned.

I cann really imagine your deck. Its really annoying to play against pure Counter, and you can barely counter everything. I think if the Emrakul is banned you can also play Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is really nice to draw Counterspells if you have none left, but Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre can control more because of his etb.

Delta-117 on Which booster box to buy

2 weeks ago

Strangely enough here has been my encounters with opening masterpieces/expeditions.

Like 2 1/2 years ago when I still was fairly new to magic I had my brother buy me 2 BFZ packs as a gift during the holidays and the second one turned out to be a Windswept Heath. I regret later when I knew its value selling it for some cards such as a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Spawnsire of Ulamog, etc, which turned out to be a bad idea as me and several other friends only played casually and never was at first aware of formats such as Edh,standard and modern. Later when we became aware of standard, and modern I couldn't in fact use some of these cards either because they weren't all that viable or legal. Now I only have kept the Praetor's and sold the rest.

Then during Oath of the Gatewatch, I attended a Fnm where we did something a bit different for a draft. We did a "whacky draft" where everyone would get 3 standard legal packs, back when DTK was still around. It was absurd what I opened, first BFZ pack was a Prairie Stream expedition, followed by a Fetid Heath in the Gatewatch pack! My third DTK pack still turned out to be an Atarka's Command too. I should have kept these maybe for commander, but I traded them for a bunch of standard stuff which nearly all of it has gone down in value. Wish I had these still for my Atraxa Edh deck that I now have.

Next I got a Sword of Feast and Famine at my third Kaladesh prerelease of a day and as well as two other mythics (Noxious Gearhulk and a Metallurgic Summonings)in my other packs, with that I rather easily went 4-0!

As you can see, all of these have not been from booster boxes. I bought my first box from Oath of the Gatewatch, and my second with aether revolt and so far I have had no luck with opening another, so it's not worth buying one just in the hopes of getting one of those at all. I still want my masterpiece Wurmcoil Engine however :(

sonnet666 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

2 weeks ago

Dunadain, Actually, there was an FAQ written a while back. A lot of peolpe thought it was good idea, but I think it was written at a time when Gigi had a lot going on, so it never got implemented.

<20 Minutes Later>

I dug through the archives and found it:

FAQ

"Why isn't x commander placed higher/lower?

Check below, in "Commonly Suggested or Questioned Commanders. 9 times out of 10, I've already answered that question. Otherwise, just ask! We're pretty nice here, probably, and will answer your question pretty quickly.

"What is the best/worst color/color combination?"

Generally Blue and Green are the best, with BUG being the best color combination. That's why 5/6 of the BUG generals are either tier 1 or 2. BUG's combination of cheap combo protection, tutors, and ramp makes for ridiculously powerful decks. Additionally, mono-red and RW are pretty bad color combinations. You generally won't see one of them that high up. Mono-white is just awful, with very few redeeming qualities.

_"My question isn't mentioned anywhere!"

Just ask. Seriously, a lot of us are more than willing to help you. Most of us have quite a bit of experience in this format, and odds are, your question will be answered.

_"Why is the FAQ so small?"

We're still updating it! Ask a question, and if it's common, it'll probably be added to the FAQ!

Common Misconceptions

Hermit Druid is the best deck in the format, and all the other decks are slower.

No. Hermit Druid is a nice deck, but not nearly the best. People learn to kill the Druid, exile it, and there's usually no backup plan if Dread Return is removed with a timely Tormod's Crypt. Generally the only other plan is to flashback Memory's Journey, getting Pull from Eternity and hoping not to die. Generally Food Chain Prossh and Grixis Storm are the fastest decks.

Voltron decks like Rafiq of the Many can dominate a table.

The problem with voltron decks is that you have to kill 3 players. Assuming commmander damage, that's 63 life points to kill, while they're all trying to combo off and drop locks. Voltron decks are easy to counter and generally are slower than combo or stax decks.

x commander that's highly placed will always work in every meta / My meta deck should be tier 1.

It's important to note that every meta is different. Personal builds may be suboptimal based on what your meta is like. For example, in my meta, there's a Thraximundar deck and a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth deck. Therefore, I run Tajuru Preserver to combat those decks. However, in your meta, you likely won't need to fight sacrifice-based decks. Therefore, you won't run that card. Additionally, some decks work better in some metas than others. If a meta is based entirely on boardstate and mono-black decks that have trouble interacting with the stack, maybe Grixis Storm will be nice. If everyone is running spellslinger decks, you might want to bring Ruric Thar. My point is, just because one deck is high up doesn't mean that it'll always work. Remember that metagames must be taken into account before blindly selecting a deck.

Introduction

I made this list and its explanations because people consistently suggest the same commanders over and over, without reading previous explanations. This will clear up uncertainty surrounding seemingly misplaced commanders like Jeleva or Geist.

Tier One

Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge

It's incorrectly assumed that Jeleva is the centerpiece of the deck. Many casual Jeleva decks run expensive spells like Enter the Infinite to abuse her ability. However, in competitive EDH, Jeleva heads one of the most potent decks around, Grixis Storm. Probably one of the best decks in the format, Grixis Storm is almost unrivaled in speed, and its colors allow for quick turn 3-5 wins off of the busted Ad Nauseam. When you see Jeleva discussed, just assume that it's Grixis Storm.

Scion of the Ur-Dragon

Scion is used as another placeholder for generally any 5c Combo list. This ranges from the famous Hermit Druid to Flash Rector. Again, the general is rarely cast, and only then as a infinite mana sink with Buried Alive and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius.

Teferi, Temporal Archmage

Teferi is the head of one of the best stax decks in the format. His -1 ability allows you to escape your own locks, and keep opponents suffering through Stasis. Finally, when your opponents are miserable and you have enough mana, you go infinite with him and The Chain Veil.

Tier Two

Alesha, Who Smiles at Death

Used as a Mardu stax general. The color combination is nice, and she's used because there isn't a better Mardu stax general.

Arcum Dagsson

Typically a bogeyman of casual tables, Arcum just isn't that strong anymore. People have learned his Myr Turbine engine, and due to how slow the deck is, you can see the Lattice + Disk + Forge combo coming from a mile away. A simple Praetor's Grasp can remove his potency, and any removal against your key pieces is hard to cope with. Additionally, the deck just isn't fast enough for tier 1.

Azami, Lady of Scrolls

Azami is another bogeyman of casual tables. She typically is run with a bunch of wizards, and is a hard control deck that wins through Mind Over Matter. However, she suffers from the problem that all control decks have. In a multiplayer format, 1-for-1 counters and removal are inherent card disadvantage. In fact, the term 1-for-1 is a misnomer, as it should be 1-for-1/3. This makes it hard for any control deck to compete, as your card disadvantage is often too much to overcome. Counterspells don't work too well in a place where you have to pick whether you'll counter Yisan's Craterhoof Behemoth, Zur's Ad Nauseam, or Animar's Ancestral Statue.

Daretti, Scrap Savant

Daretti was a commander that was hit very hard by the mulligan change. Since much of red's acceleration is just 1-shot (think Rite of Flame), the deck relied on Partial Paris to land an early Daretti. Now that Vancouver has taken over the format, the deck can really only get a turn 4 Daretti consistently. The deck liked to run very few lands; that doesn't work too well now. Daretti's just too slow in this format.

General Tazri

He's the head of a unique 5c Food Chain deck. The deck runs the Food Chain + Misthollow Griffin / Eternal Scourge combo, then you can sac Tazri to Food Chain infintely to get something like Kalastria Healer and make your opponents lose infinite life. It's actually really fast, averaging turn 3-5 wins. He might move up later.

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip

Mono-blue High Tide. It's really good. See the decklist in the description for more information.

Jhoira of the Ghitu

Another bogeyman. The problem with Jhoira is that her ability will get your big spells onto the battlefield at turn 7 on average. By then, faster decks have already won. She's in tier 2 at the time of writing this, but she may move down to tier 3 later.

thegigibeast, if Jhoira moves down, remember to update this.

Kaalia of the Vast

While the colors are great for aggro in a 20-life format, this is more of a 120-life format (3 opponents * 40 life each). Aggro decks like Kaalia suffer heavily, and can really only dominate at casual tables lacking in spot removal. In competitive tables, if Kaalia hits the table, you can bet that every Beast Within and Swords to Plowshares will be heading her way.

Leovold, Emissary of Trest

Don't worry, he'll move up soon.

thegigibeast, when Leovold moves up, remember to update this.

Narset, Enlightened Master

Similarly to Daretti, Narset was hit pretty hard when the new mulligans were instituted. She has trouble getting out on turn 3 like she used to. While she almost always kills people when she hits, the Vancouver mulligan brought a new "metagame" of midrangey decks like Yisan (<3), which usually run a platoon of creatures that can block and kill Narset.

Nin, the Pain Artist

Nin's basically the UR artifact combo general until WOTC PRINTS AN ACTUAL UR ARTIFACT COMMANDER. She's used as an infinite mana sink when you combo off.

Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind

The combo is kind of expensive, and it's very easy to disrupt. It also has a heavy colored mana cost, so the combo is hard to ramp out early with Mana Crypt etc.

Selvala, Explorer Returned

Rienuaa's deck is pretty powerful. Green and White have some of the fastest ramp capabilities in the game, and can quickly tutor and play expensive (but castable in this deck) combos like Mirror Entity + Wirewood Symbiote + Priest of Titania, or any big mana engine and Umbral Mantle / Sword of the Paruns / Staff of Domination. (The second one can't be tutored, but is way cheaper.)

Sliver Queen

Basically the same story as Scion, except instead of Buried Alive and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius you have Mana Echoes for infinite colorless mana and slivers.

Tier 3 and below

Geist of Saint Traft

While placing high on French tournaments, he's basically useless in multiplayer. He's basically a 6/2 with hexproof for 3. That really doesn't do anything when your opponents have 40 each and a bunch of chump blockers. A better option would be Bruna, Light of Alabaster who at least can get some interesting synergies with Eldrazi Conscription and the like.

Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon

Mono-black isn't a great color combination. Additionally, putting all your eggs in one basket doesn't typically work. Skittles is nice, and can hit an unsuspecting opponent for 4 poison immediately, but the expensive cost coupled with the weakeness of a creature-based strategy that isn't green doesn't make for a happy outcome. It's still fine, and could tear up a few casual tables, but at a higher level, the deck can't hope to compete.

Memnarch

Memnarch is another pubstomp commander. He does nothing until you either have a big boardstate or infinite mana. As a control general, you run out of cards way to quickly. As a combo general, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip is pretty superior. He's just too clunky to compete.

===panel:FAQ and Common Misconceptions

**FAQ**

_"Why isn't x commander placed higher/lower?_

Check below, in "Commonly Suggested or Questioned Commanders. 9 times out of 10, I've already answered that question. Otherwise, just ask! We're pretty nice here, probably, and will answer your question pretty quickly. 

_"What is the best/worst color/color combination?"_

Generally Blue and Green are the best, with BUG being the best color combination. That's why 5/6 of the BUG generals are either tier 1 or 2. BUG's combination of cheap combo protection, tutors, and ramp makes for ridiculously powerful decks. Additionally, mono-red and RW are pretty bad color combinations. You generally won't see one of them that high up. Mono-white is just awful, with very few redeeming qualities.

_"My question isn't mentioned anywhere!"

Just ask. Seriously, a lot of us are more than willing to help you. Most of us have quite a bit of experience in this format, and odds are, your question will be answered. 

_"Why is the FAQ so small?"

We're still updating it! Ask a question, and if it's common, it'll probably be added to the FAQ!

**Common Misconceptions**

_Hermit Druid is the best deck in the format, and all the other decks are slower._

No. Hermit Druid is a nice deck, but not nearly the best. People learn to kill the Druid, exile it, and there's usually no backup plan if [[Dread Return]] is removed with a timely [[Tormod's Crypt]]. Generally the only other plan is to flashback [[Memory's Journey]], getting [[Pull from Eternity]] and hoping not to die. Generally Food Chain Prossh and Grixis Storm are the fastest decks.

_Voltron decks like [[Rafiq of the Many]] can dominate a table._

The problem with voltron decks is that you have to kill 3 players. Assuming commmander damage, that's 63 life points to kill, while they're all trying to combo off and drop locks. Voltron decks are easy to counter and generally are slower than combo or stax decks.

_x commander that's highly placed will always work in every meta / My meta deck should be tier 1._

It's important to note that every meta is different. Personal builds may be suboptimal based on what your meta is like. For example, in my meta, there's a [[Thraximundar]] deck and a [[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth]] deck. Therefore, I run [[Tajuru Preserver]] to combat those decks. However, in your meta, you likely won't need to fight sacrifice-based decks. Therefore, you won't run that card. Additionally, some decks work better in some metas than others. If a meta is based entirely on boardstate and mono-black decks that have trouble interacting with the stack, maybe Grixis Storm will be nice. If everyone is running spellslinger decks, you might want to bring Ruric Thar. My point is, just because one deck is high up doesn't mean that it'll always work. Remember that metagames must be taken into account before blindly selecting a deck. 

===accordion

===panel:Commonly Suggested or Questioned Commanders

**Introduction**

I made this list and its explanations because people consistently suggest the same commanders over and over, without reading previous explanations. This will clear up uncertainty surrounding seemingly misplaced commanders like Jeleva or Geist.

**Tier One**

[[Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge]]

It's incorrectly assumed that Jeleva is the centerpiece of the deck. Many casual Jeleva decks run expensive spells like [[Enter the Infinite]] to abuse her ability. However, in competitive EDH, Jeleva heads one of the most potent decks around, Grixis Storm. Probably one of the best decks in the format, Grixis Storm is almost unrivaled in speed, and its colors allow for quick turn 3-5 wins off of the busted [[Ad Nauseam]]. When you see Jeleva discussed, just assume that it's Grixis Storm. 

[[Scion of the Ur-Dragon]]

Scion is used as another placeholder for generally any 5c Combo list. This ranges from the famous [[Hermit Druid]] to Flash Rector. Again, the general is rarely cast, and only then as a infinite mana sink with [[Buried Alive]] and [[Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius]].

[[Teferi, Temporal Archmage]]

Teferi is the head of one of the best stax decks in the format. His -1 ability allows you to escape your own locks, and keep opponents suffering through [[Stasis]]. Finally, when your opponents are miserable and you have enough mana, you go infinite with him and [[The Chain Veil]].

**Tier Two**

[[Alesha, Who Smiles at Death]]

Used as a Mardu stax general. The color combination is nice, and she's used because there isn't a better Mardu stax general. 

[[Arcum Dagsson]]

Typically a bogeyman of casual tables, Arcum just isn't that strong anymore. People have learned his [[Myr Turbine]] engine, and due to how slow the deck is, you can see the Lattice + Disk + Forge combo coming from a mile away. A simple [[Praetor's Grasp]] can remove his potency, and any removal against your key pieces is hard to cope with. Additionally, the deck just isn't fast enough for tier 1. 

[[Azami, Lady of Scrolls]]

Azami is another bogeyman of casual tables. She typically is run with a bunch of wizards, and is a hard control deck that wins through [[Mind over Matter]]. However, she suffers from the problem that all control decks have. In a multiplayer format, 1-for-1 counters and removal are inherent card disadvantage. In fact, the term 1-for-1 is a misnomer, as it should be 1-for-1/3. This makes it hard for any control deck to compete, as your card disadvantage is often too much to overcome. Counterspells don't work too well in a place where you have to pick whether you'll counter Yisan's [[Craterhoof Behemoth]], Zur's [[Ad Nauseam]], or Animar's [[Ancestral Statue]]. 

[[Daretti, Scrap Savant]]

Daretti was a commander that was hit _very_ hard by the mulligan change. Since much of red's acceleration is just 1-shot (think [[Rite of Flame]]), the deck relied on Partial Paris to land an early Daretti. Now that Vancouver has taken over the format, the deck can really only get a turn 4 Daretti consistently. The deck liked to run very few lands; that doesn't work too well now. Daretti's just too slow in this format.

[[General Tazri]]

He's the head of a unique 5c [[Food Chain]] deck. The deck runs the [[Food Chain]] + [[Misthollow Griffin]] / [[Eternal Scourge]] combo, then you can sac Tazri to [[Food Chain]] infintely to get something like [[Kalastria Healer]] and make your opponents lose infinite life. It's actually really fast, averaging turn 3-5 wins. He might move up later.

[[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy]]

Mono-blue [[High Tide]]. It's really good. See the decklist in the description for more information.

[[Jhoira of the Ghitu]]

Another bogeyman. The problem with Jhoira is that her ability will get your big spells onto the battlefield at turn 7 on average. By then, faster decks have already won. She's in tier 2 at the time of writing this, but she may move down to tier 3 later.

**[[user:thegigibeast]], if Jhoira moves down, remember to update this.**

[[Kaalia of the Vast]]

While the colors are great for aggro in a 20-life format, this is more of a 120-life format (3 opponents * 40 life each). Aggro decks like Kaalia suffer heavily, and can really only dominate at casual tables lacking in spot removal. In competitive tables, if Kaalia hits the table, you can bet that every [[Beast Within]] and [[Swords to Plowshares]] will be heading her way.

[[Leovold, Emissary of Trest]]

Don't worry, he'll move up soon.

**[[user:thegigibeast]], when Leovold moves up, remember to update this.**

[[Narset, Enlightened Master]]

Similarly to Daretti, Narset was hit pretty hard when the new mulligans were instituted. She has trouble getting out on turn 3 like she used to. While she almost always kills people when she hits, the Vancouver mulligan brought a new "metagame" of midrangey decks like Yisan (<3), which usually run a platoon of creatures that can block and kill Narset.

[[Nin, the Pain Artist]]

Nin's basically the UR artifact combo general until WOTC PRINTS AN ACTUAL UR ARTIFACT COMMANDER. She's used as an infinite mana sink when you combo off. 

[[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]]

The combo is kind of expensive, and it's very easy to disrupt. It also has a heavy colored mana cost, so the combo is hard to ramp out early with [[Mana Crypt]] etc.

[[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]

Rienuaa's deck is pretty powerful. Green and White have some of the fastest ramp capabilities in the game, and can quickly tutor and play expensive (but castable in this deck) combos like [[Mirror Entity]] + [[Wirewood Symbiote]] + [[Priest of Titania]], or any big mana engine and [[Umbral Mantle]] / [[Sword of the Paruns]] / [[Staff of Domination]]. (The second one can't be tutored, but is way cheaper.)

[[Sliver Queen]]

Basically the same story as Scion, except instead of [[Buried Alive]] and [[Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius]] you have [[Mana Echoes]] for infinite colorless mana and slivers.

**Tier 3 and below**

[[Geist of Saint Traft]]

While placing high on French tournaments, he's basically useless in multiplayer. He's basically a 6/2 with hexproof for 3. That really doesn't do anything when your opponents have 40 each and a bunch of chump blockers. A better option would be [[Bruna, Light of Alabaster]] who at least can get some interesting synergies with [[Eldrazi Conscription]] and the like.

[[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]]

Mono-black isn't a great color combination. Additionally, putting all your eggs in one basket doesn't typically work. Skittles is nice, and can hit an unsuspecting opponent for 4 poison immediately, but the expensive cost coupled with the weakeness of a creature-based strategy that isn't green doesn't make for a happy outcome. It's still fine, and could tear up a few casual tables, but at a higher level, the deck can't hope to compete. 

[[Memnarch]]

Memnarch is another pubstomp commander. He does nothing until you either have a big boardstate or infinite mana. As a control general, you run out of cards way to quickly. As a combo general, [[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy]] is pretty superior. He's just too clunky to compete. 

===endpanel
===endaccordion

===endpanel

Interestingly, Sliver Queen vs. Sliver Overlord isn't really addressed, so that's something we would need to add. (We'd also need to update it to reflect the new tier system, as well.)


TronIsloveTronislife, you wrote a lot in response to me, and I do have some counterarguments, but I think we're probably taking up a lot of space here that could be used by other discussions, so if I type up a response I'll message you directly, sound good?


Also, I realized I accidentally left that new Sidisi list I made as private, which was probably (definitely) why the big deck link wasn't working. If anyone's interested, here it is again:


New Sidisi

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

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