|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Dragon's Maze (DGM)||Uncommon|
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Creature — Frog Beast
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
Species Gorger Discussion
1 year ago
After a month and a half of owning this deck: We play very casually at work everyday, so this deck was ideal for a fun deck. (at a company of 30 people, 4 happen to be magic players!) This deck was really fun in 4 player especially, but won a few one on one. I looked at splashing in black for Yargle, but the best combo for late in the game is the Species Gorger with a Haze Frog. I don't think having a giant frog later in the game is as good as having potential mana issues early on.
1 year ago
Thank you very much for the kind words and for the upvote! As for Yargle, Glutton of Urborg, that might actually be perfect! I mentioned in my last paragraph that I was considering adding some more Species Gorgers and the primary reason was because I needed some tougher creatures, but a frog with nine toughness for only five mana is even better! I was already considering splashing black because of The Gitrog Monster, but Yargle looks like he would work better for this deck especially since he can activate the Crocanuras' abilities multiple times. Thank you for the suggestion!
1 year ago
Alright. So here is my opinion:
1) I think that Podkomorka's point that Gatecreeper Vine et al. are bad at ramp is looking at the cards from the wrong angle. In my mind they are extra copies of Elvish Visionary, "drawing" a card on ETB. Yes, you might not always want to get a land, but having two or three of those effects is helpful
2) The token producers I think are a meta call. I have a Changeling Titan deck that utilizes ETB token creators and they are great for gumming up the board and deterring attacks but they don't actively forward your win condition and do nothing to stop common threats like Ascended Lawmage and Enigma Drake. So I'm not going to factor this into my decision.
3) Podkomorka's deck has the Peregrine Drake combo, the most ubiquitous win condition in PDH. It gives an alternate way to close out the game and can eliminate all players at once. This gives Podkomorka's deck an edge in grindy games.
4) rumpy's deck has more options to voltron Species Gorger, but only one other creature to utilize these options (Ulamog's Crusher). Podkomorka's deck is the opposite, less pieces with more potential options.
All of these things considered, I think Podkomorka's deck would be more likely to win a game. rumpy, my recommendations for your deck would be to hammer out a secondary win condition. Voltron is a good strategy and you are in the best colors to protect and recast it but your only backup if Gorger is neutered is Ulamog's Crusher. For Podkomorka, I would optimize your removal and ability to deal combat damage. Both decks have some cards that I feel are not optimal, so I think there is room for both decks to improve.
1 year ago
I prefer @rumpy's gorger to @Podkomorka's for a couple of reasons. The fact that Haze Frog isn't mainboarded in podkomorka's is a massive oversight - this card is so powerful with Species Gorger that it can singlehandedly beat non-blue combat-oriented decks in 1v1 situations (I have known the joys of Haze Frog myself in my Temur Sabertooth paper list). Podkomorka's reliance on playing big vanilla/slightly evasive creatures to close games is also quite offputting as i find they don't do much for you (PDH is notorious for boardstalls) unless they drop early and pile up quickly (see Garruk's Packleader). Also the recursion section seems like wasted slots.
1 year ago
I think this is a really close one and might come down to your meta.
@Podkomorka I like your choice of ETB creatures and share your evaluation of token producers. Your deck seems to be better at grinding your opponents out since you run more Man-o'-War style creatures and card draw. Your deck seems to offer more different angles of attack with the inclusion of heavy beaters, the Peregrine Drake combo, a way to go wide and the possibility to go Voltron (although rumpy excels you in the latter two categories). Despite what I've written so far I think I would cut Gearseeker Serpent and Amass the Components for more interaction cheap interaction.
@rumpy I think you can make a strong case for your deck being more optimized due to a way lower avarage CMC (2.80 compared to 3.39). Species Gorger seems to be a mana intensive general which makes me think one of the goals in building this deck should be to have a pretty low curve (although I might be wrong since I neither piloted it nor played against it). It also seems to be a good general to go Voltron but I think you should focus some more on protecting it if you want to go that route with cards like Elgaud Shieldmate or Shielding Plax or give it trample Pathbreaker Wurm. I think I would also up the amount of card draw by a little. I also prefer your choice of including at least some fight spells in order to kill creatures but I disagree on your assessment of Leonin Bola. I'd rather run Lignify against Voltron decks even though it can't be tutored via Trinket Mage.
After looking at both lists I think I prefer Podkomorka's list by a smidge but this is rather a choice of preferred play style than power level.
1 year ago
There are new decks to discuss up in the "Decks to Debate" section. Please take a look and give your thoughts.
@rumpy Thanks again for the deck, I think it has many good cards, in fact, I took a couple that I liked such as Pounce and Ambuscade. Although my deck is geared towards casual play I feel it has a more solid game plan. My deck consistently can abuse creatures that Rampant Growth when they ETB as this is the strongest ramp effect on a creature compared to something like Gatecreeper Vine that doesn't ramp. My deck then can deal with problems via my creatures like AEther Adept (very powerful effect to abuse, have as many as possible) and my other interaction spells like Lignify (the removal I liked from your list is soon to be worked in). After establishing myself I proceed to play huge creatures which were carefully chosen to give me a bit of a toolbox depending on the best way to get in for damage (Rancor is an auto-include as it turns your commander into a 2-shot kill with trample). The Peregrine Drake combo fits perfectly well into the deck as a fallback win condition, easily abusing any of my ETB creatures like Elvish Visionary to simply draw my deck or Eyeless Watcher to flood the board. I include a strong ratio of good draw spells and ramp spells as I calculate what those ratios should be for each of my decks. I pack good recursion to get back those beaters. Overall my deck is extremely resilient and has a strong gameplan.
Looking at your deck I can see you are trying to attack with Species Gorger which I don't think is a bad idea as it is decently big. We share a good amount of cards but our paths diverge when you include cards that dont ramp like Gatecreeper Vine and Sylvan Ranger. I feel tutoring lands into play is a much for reliable and resilient option. I'm not particularly a fan of how many token producers you have that only net you one token like Eldrazi Skyspawner and Nest Invader as that isn't particularly a strong effect. I also see some cards that I don't think are effective such as Leonin Bola, Explorer's Scope, Scion Summoner (along with the others that make just one token), Multani's Acolyte, Seal of Primordium (use creature based art/enchant removal since you can abuse it), all could be replaced with better cards.
Even with different game plans I'm still able to critique your list (which I'm very willing to talk more about and help out. I love working with people). Hopefully I've explained how I do in fact have a very solid game plan in my deck. (and thanks for bringing some neat cards to the table for me)
1 year ago
Sorry for the hiatus everyone, it's us college-folk's spring break. Thank you for the new lists!
@rumpy I put your list under "Other" temporarily. Please feel welcome to make a case if you think your deck belongs in the "Most Optimized" slot instead :)
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