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|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Rare|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
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|Urza's Legacy (ULG)||Rare|
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Creature — Angel Spirit
Flying, protection from black
Echo (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its echo cost.)
When Karmic Guide enters the battlefield, return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
Karmic Guide Discussion
3 days ago
Mmm I see in that case, than I would definitely recommend a lot of the fast mana rocks. If you can get your hands on them. I think you already know them but I'll list them just for the sake of it. Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Worn Powerstone, Pearl Medallion. I would also recommend some protection spells or recursion spells Faith's Reward, Rebuff the Wicked, Silence, Lapse of Certainty, and Teferi's Protection. If you want to keep the Angel theme some good angels are Angel of Jubilation, Lyra Dawnbringer, Archangel of Tithes, Platinum Angel, Baneslayer Angel, Emeria Shepherd, Angel of Finality, and Karmic Guide.
Hope that gives some insight! :P
5 days ago
Glad I could help! I think I do agree with hkhssweiss to a point. The idea is so unique, and infinite combos are what would be expected from Ghave that it almost takes away from what you're trying to achieve. I was a bit hesitant to bring them up, but they are an option you have available. I definitely think Mikaeus, the Unhallowed will be a great addition to the strategy, though, and you might even consider running Karmic Guide or Saffi Eriksdotter for their single recursion potential in any case.
Meren of Clan Nel Toth is an interesting idea. Play around with her and see how she goes, but I'd say Eternal Witness should be a staple in most decks running especially if you need some graveyard recovery. Emeria Shepherd is a must include for land matters.
I think you can strike a balance between land matters, black control, and a few interactions with Ghave even if those interactions are not infinite. Really you should view Ghave as utility for doing what you need. Being able to trigger Pattern of Rebirth is a good example. Using him in conjunction with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is another.
As far as draw power goes, I don't see Sylvan Library which is arguably some of the best draw power has at its disposal. You could also consider running Necropotence or Phyrexian Arena. I would say you could use lots of ramp to speed up the deck, but you do have a lot of search engines that will help you in that regard.
5 days ago
I really appreciate you going over this and bringing your Ghave expertise to the table.
btw, I think Avatar of Growth is the only etb trigger like that, at least that I've seen
I'm definitely hearing you with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and the ETB/recursion ability. He's a fantastic option for upping the effectiveness of the deck especially considering cmc's and tutors. For example, I could sack Protean Hulk to bring in Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, then after Protean Hulk is brought back, sack him again for Avatar of Growth. Ob Nixilis and Avatar they are both 6cmc, so fit in Protean's limitations! I could do the same with Fierce Empath though he just puts them into my hand. With Mikaeus on the battlefield and Eldritch Evolution or Birthing Pod in place, I could sac either Ob Nixilis or Avatar to bring the other in. Btw...Mikaus with Fertilid and enough mana for activate his search engine trigger? ohhhh man, match made in heaven!
Ultimately, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed becomes another node in the network the gives multiple new routes to the goal - that's what I need in this deck, so thanks for that!
I've seen the Karmic Guide + Reveillark mentioned often and see them ringing alarm bells for people when they are played. Someone's obviously getting up to something at that point! I'm going to play test them, but may keep them on the "maybe" for the sake of trying alternate routes out first. You are so very right though, the recursion package is going to be a big key to this deck hitting a rhythm. I know I'll end up trying them in here, but I'm going to dig for alternatives for now. ... even without those two in here though, Saffi Eriksdotter seems like a great add. I put together a rough version of the deck, set to private, just to play test it. I was missing having early drops that offer value and support to the machine while helping it move forward. Saffri could potentially be one of those.
As for other recursion options: what do you think of Meren of Clan Nel Toth + Skullwinder (who also deters attacks) and/or Eternal Witness? I'm thinking this could be a good alternative for bring back Pir's Whim or another way to get Field of Ruin back. Meren would also get that Avatar of Growth ETB again in a turn - getting up to 6 experience counters with Ghave would be no problem at all.
Also - one that has worked really well in play testing, because of the lands matters aspect, is Emeria Shepherd. She's amazing recursion actually. With all the great land spells I have that can drop larger amounts of land on the battlefield, I can bring in multiple plains at once to return creatures Avatar of Growth, enchantments (Pattern of Rebirth or Wound Reflection), or artifacts Ashnod's Altar back to the battlefield together for a final boom.
Ghave initially made sense with the built in sac engine for Pattern of Rebirth, for fueling fertilid, utilizing the counters Ob Nixilis got, as well as his colours. I also knew that he had such great value engines because the second EDH deck I ever built was Ghave (with many of the combos) and I figured, once it was time to start filling the deck out, I know I have helpful options available. It's started to make more and more sense though as things have progressed.
For example: If I get into the landfall token creation I'm producing good fuel for the sac engines like Ashnod's Altar, food for Skullclamp and triggers for Bloodspore Thrinax or Ivy Lane Denizen type engines and Mentor of the Meek.
Great point on the infinite sacs for infinite flying demon, I didn't even make that obvious connection with Ghave's infinites and his trigger... And let's not forget, he's got trample! So, unless they are blocking with a flying, first strike deathtoucher, that's game for that opponent. I foresee the deck being able to combo off killing all but one opponent in some instances, so having the secondary "death-con" built into the primary is pretty nice.
What I love about going the land-matters route is bringing in Ob Nixilis, the Fallen and taking the "pain" theme further with his landfall trigger. I could bring in mass lands from the big "search engine" ramp, token triggers to fuel ghave/altar/clamp/thrinax/mentor, then deal direct damage and grow a monster (unfortunately non-flying/non-trample). I do see the value in keeping some control in mind as well and am open to ideas for priorities there. Finding the balance will be the journey, for sure.
Thanks so much for taking the time Abzkaban! I'm glad you can appreciate the jankier version of Ghave. He screams for the efficient infinite combos, it's written all over him, and I'll never tire of playing that style of him...
Yet! his abilities and colours are pretty fun enablers and I have a few other ideas for him (though this is the jankiest of them so far). I'm excited to see this keep evolving, and with something that feels so unique in some ways, it's been pretty fun having folks like you step up with new insights that seem to take it to such a greater level. Another example is Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor's idea of Biorhythm... Something I don't think I've seen in a Ghave deck, yet Ghave can use it so well, and it brings everyone within easy reach of a Field of Ruin + Ob Nixilis, Unshackled search to death!
So again, thanks for being part of it :)
5 days ago
I love the strategy of the deck. It's so far removed from what you would expect from a Ghave deck that it'll take most people by surprise.
I personally like the land matters strategy but I feel the black control fits the flavor and theme better. Honestly I think you can have a good balance of both. Once you've got Ob Nixilis, Unshackled out there, I think ETB effects can be your friend especially since you should be able to abuse them. The flicker strategy works really well, there, but I would also suggest Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. He would be good on two fronts. First he'd be great for using ETB effects multiple times, but he's also great recursion to keep Ob Nixilis in play. You just need Ghave to remove the counter and you can bring him back again. If you can manage it you could create an infinite recursion loop with him, Ghave, and Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar. Unfortunately this would be a 5 card combo since you'd need Mikaeus, Ghave, Ob Nixilis, an altar, AND Avatar of Growth or someone similar. I'm not sure if there is anyone else who forces a search like he does, though.
I think you could easily pull yourself into a win with just Pattern of Rebirth using Protean Hulk if you add in a recursion combo. By using Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Saffi Eriksdotter + a sac outlet, you can continuously bring back Hulk and search for any creature in your deck that you want. You could grab Ob Nixilis, Unshackled and Fertilid or better yet Avatar of Growth. As long as you have a free sac outlet, you can continuously bring back Avatar and trigger Ob Nixilis until you drain everyone. Not to mention that they're great single card recursion on their own except that Reveillark isn't able to bring Ob Nixilis back.
Even with utilizing lands and black control, I do think it's a missed opportunity not to utilize Ghave's abilities in some way. If you're using him just for his colors, than any Abzan commander would work. You mentioned on my deck that you wanted to adopt some combos here. Which ones did you have in mind? Adding in some combo pieces with Ashnod's Altar like Bloodspore Thrinax or Ivy Lane Denizen would allow you to use Skullclamp, Mentor of the Meek, or Fecundity to draw into your win cons. Combos like this could also bee good for Ob Nixilis as well. Infinite sacrifices means you'd have an infinite/infinite flying demon. I know that's not the focus of this deck, but it could be an alternate interaction.
Excellent idea! I look forward to seeing how this all comes together.
6 days ago
xander11 Since you checked out my deck, I'll check out yours :P
Some suggestions, you can use Body Snatcher as a pseudo Karmic Guide/Phyrexian Delver that can also swap cards from your hand while you have your big fatties in there, this card is a secret tech that not much people know about! xD
While I know your more creature heavy, there is good in using reanimation type cards like the cheap effect ones such as Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, as well as Reanimate (Luckily it's getting reprinted in UMA so that $20 price tag doesn't stay for long). While this card may be broken, Protean Hulk does a lot for your build when you have to sac him to Vraska or Jarad, getting both value and efficiency. I can see there being loops with it going for infinite recursion, but that's if your all for going the combo route.
Some great cards to also run would be like Oversold Cemetery so you can keep a constant amount of creatures to be fodder and sac over and over again. With this in mind some recent cards like Vindictive Lich and Plaguecrafter get extremely fun! Hell's Caretaker is way too slow and there is a better option in Apprentice Necromancer. I'm also surprised you aren't running Living Death unless you run into a creature heavy meta than it's understandable. World Shaper is also one to think about as it is pure value, especially if you delve into a Dredge route as well.
Hope that gives you some feedback and feel free to ask any questions or advice!
1 week ago
You're off to a good start.
Here are some budget friendly staple removal spells you should consider running (you don't need to run them all of course):
- Swords to Plowshares
- Doom Blade
- Go for the Throat
- Beast Within
- Abzan Charm
- Return to Dust
- Utter End
- Ravenous Chupacabra
- Acidic Slime
- Nature's Claim
Here are some budget friendly cards that can help you feed your graveyard:
Here are some budget friendly big bomb creatures you can use as win conditions and/or reanimate:
- Butcher of Malakir
- Ashen Rider
- Angel of Despair
- Reya Dawnbringer
- Angelic Arbiter
- Avatar of Woe
- Gaea's Revenge
- Giant Adephage
- Hornet Queen
- Moldgraf Monstrosity
- Pelakka Wurm
- Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
If you want to go the reanimator angle here are some budget friendly reanimator spells:
1 week ago
Have you thought about using cards like Wargate? It's a card that can be useful at any point of the game. Especially if you use a lot of flicker effects you can pay x=3 grab it back with Eternal Witness, grab it back with E-Wit, use it again to tutor out for something else. Favorite Bant card of all time.
Some additional cards that can be cosidered:
- Mystic Snake
- Felidar Sovereign
- Peregrine Drake
- Eldrazi Displacer
- Karmic Guide
- Reflector Mage
- Aura Shards
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Chord of Calling
- Brago, King Eternal
- Aid from the Cowl
Hope these help!
1 week ago
Hey welcome to EDH!
Athreos is a cool guy, very annoying to deal with at times as well. Since you said your goal is to apply pressure abusing ETB triggers here might be some cards that can help you get there!
- Merciless Executioner
- Dance of the Dead
- Animate Dead
- Karmic Guide
- Faith's Reward
- Unburial Rites
- Living Death
All the cards I listed should be pretty cheap, if you need any more deck advice feel free to ask! Hope that helps!