Icbrgr , the Sojourner
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This is the best Cruel control deck ive seen. +1
August 10, 2018 3 p.m.
currently this deck dies to Pithing Needle...Ratchet Bomb is my reflex answer for touching artifacts/enchantments in these colors...Annul and Hurkyl's Recall are also options. Maybe a combination of Jace's Phantasm and Wight of Precinct Six could be used for a beatdown wincon?... perhaps Thought Scour/Dream Twist used on yourself could be a sneaky means to "draw."
August 7, 2018 5:56 p.m.
August 7, 2018 12:14 p.m.
@Murphy77 Thanks for the suggestions! I have an appreciation for Fraying Sanity as it basically Doubles the net mill throughout the game; However this particular mill deck is not a turbo-mill brew. Im still working on my description.... but basically this Mill style is meant to be more of a control/slower playstyle. The creatures are more about defending than anything and meant to bottleneck the field; and spot removal for opponents with bigger creatures. when it comes to Memory Sluice its a nice early play especially and the hybrid mana is very appealing because its easy to cast in many situations. in the later game it can double in mill effectiveness which is nice for when Silent Arbiter is in play and the extra creatures for blocking/attacking are not needed. Trepanation Blade/Mindcrank are fun but the success of piloting this deck lies with defense/attrition... If i am swinging with creatures then combat damage is probably gonna be enough to win no matter what... and Jace's Phantasm is the only evasive creatures but a chump block is a chump block either way whether the opponents has an army of Storm Crows or Elite Vanguard. As far as my flex slots are concerned for match-ups in the event that aggro isnt a problem and Silent Arbiter got Sideboarded for Trepanation Blade then the overall effectiveness of both Wight of Precinct Six and the blade are reduced because then the opponent likely has less creatures for wright to feed on and more lands in the deck.
August 6, 2018 11:35 a.m.
perhaps the scry lands from Theros would be nice in the mana base... Temple of Malice, Temple of Enlightenment, Temple of Deceit, Temple of Triumph, Temple of Silence to replace the ETB taped gain life lands?
August 3, 2018 3:19 p.m.
Been brewing and assembling mill pieces for a few years now... outside of fetch lands like Polluted Delta does anyone have any advise/suggestions for improvement?
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August 3, 2018 2:16 p.m.
August 3, 2018 2:09 p.m.
well I'll be darned...i mean im seeing the deck lists... seeing the record... and still surprised/in disbelief that Clancaller would be preferred to visionary...
August 2, 2018 3:02 p.m.
@cdkime yeah i think my issue with my brew at this point is what you fundamentally said about the mill archetype earlier...
"Mill is traditionally a hyper-aggressive deck--a good analogy is Burn. Both generally try to win as explosively as possible, killing an opponent before they can be overwhelmed themselves."
As my list initially looked and even how it is now it isnt really hyper-aggressive nor trying to win as explosively as possible... but rather building around less than ideal cards within the archetype that require a lot of synergy/support to get online/result in winning... again comparing to Burn its like im building around Lightning Strike and Falkenrath Gorger.
I do wish to remain in the creature theme being boosted off of milling the opponent... but I think I need to improve my decklist to facilitate a more aggressive/explosive win approach if I intend to Contend in the Modern formt... Perhaps Bloodchief Ascension + Mindcrank with some evasion is what im looking for... Im not sure but ill keep working/brewing with it.
August 2, 2018 10:11 a.m.
@TypicalTimmy I love Sphinx's Tutelage particularly in mono-blue. When Origins came out I ran it with Teferi's Puzzle Box and Psychic Possession... I was fun but got board with the lack of opponent interaction/spamming cantips.... Which is why I am trying to brew with creatures in ... Self Mill with Skaab Ruinator/Laboratory Maniac was also fun but just a touch too gimmicky for my liking.
August 2, 2018 6:50 a.m.
@cdkime I think those are some pretty good points on all accounts regarding both cards in question... Throughout this conversation and more play testing those points are becoming more and more apparent.
As far as the goal/motivation behind the deck... I am aiming to have it revolve around the creatures mostly... Hedron Crab, Jace's Phantasm, Wight of Precinct Six and or Consuming Aberration/Phenax, God of Deception... I am just a fan of Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver for his +2 making him difficult to kill making him being a "Mill" engine that can also plop down more creatures as well as a devotion enabler tentatively...
But because I want these creatures... It severly limits how many Mill spells I can have so I need as much bang/Mill as I can efficiently have... Hence why I was pretty interested in pursuing Mind Funeral with Howling Mine... But It might not be as great of an idea as I originally thought.
August 1, 2018 11:50 p.m.
August 1, 2018 9:20 p.m.
@HillyerGames my gut initially went with Mindcrank but the problem is that when I play test this My creatures tend to just end up as blockers/deterrence rather than attacking most of the time. That is why Basilisk Collar didn't pan out for me either. But I can see how Fraying Sanity And Profane Memento could be good ideas.
August 1, 2018 8:48 p.m.
Wicked idea Funkydiscogod! Not a fan of the triple casting cost... But otherwise I love it and will consider it.
August 1, 2018 8:01 p.m.
@cdkime I do agree that the biggest concern is the likelihood of an opponent drawing into an answer... but likewise doesnt the same apply for the user and in the end just "speed up" the game as a whole? The only real separating factor being that very first draw....then it just goes back to the typical faith/luck aspect of the Mill strategy that their would-be answer/bomb goes into the Graveyard through milling/Thoughtseize/Go for the Throat.
I dont use Fraying Sanity but its wort a look Considering how this Mill deck isnt exactly geared towards spamming mill spells but rather establishing milling engines through Hedron Crab/Mesmeric Orb/Consuming Aberration and then just aiming to get the most value for casting Mind Funeral.
This is someones math I ripped from the comment section of Gatherer...
- *"I haven't seen any rock-solid math for this card on here yet, so I programmed a simple simulation to see how many cards on average this spell would mill. I used a deck size of 60 cards, casting this spell after the opponent had drawn their starting hand of 7, plus 3 cards, which seems reasonable given that this is a 3-mana spell. I varied the lands between 19 (hyper-aggressive) and 26 (hyper-control) to show the effectiveness spectrum. The simulation was run one million times for each scenario. Here we go:
Average cards milled from deck with 19 land cards: 12.2
Average cards milled from deck with 20 land cards: 11.62
Average cards milled from deck with 21 land cards: 11.09
Average cards milled from deck with 22 land cards: 10.61
Average cards milled from deck with 23 land cards: 10.17
Average cards milled from deck with 24 land cards: 9.76
Average cards milled from deck with 25 land cards: 9.38
Average cards milled from deck with 26 land cards: 9.04
We can conclude from these results that this card is more effective against decks light on lands (obviously), but specifically that this seems to be, on average against the typical deck you would face, strictly worse than Glimpse the Unthinkable."*
In a deck size of 60 cards, casting this spell after the opponent had drawn their starting hand of 7, plus 3 cards for a deck having 24-26 lands It may average out to be worse... but I challenge that with the use of fetch lands like Scalding Tarn and typically only being able to lay one land per turn im making the case that as the draws go on the land hunting mill effects would be a more suitable mill spell/finisher.... thoughts?
August 1, 2018 6:21 p.m.
Although Howling Mine not only gives extra draw for the opponent but also gives that extra draw BEFORE I get a chance to benefit from it... but the motivation behind it being that the extra draw results in less cards in the library to mill as well as making it more likely to draw into lands therefore making Mind Funeral that much more potent.
To cancel out the advantage of extra draw from the opponent precision discard via Thoughtseize/Duress double as removing the most foreseeable threat as well as fuel the opponents graveyard. Mesmeric Orb is the deterrent from opponents going on a casting/attacking spree.
Mill doesn't have to be a win condition by itself. What Mill does in this Decklist is populate the opponents graveyard, which is handy for pumping up Jace's Phantasm/Wight of Precinct Six to act as formidable bodies to block and Consuming Aberration not only being an obnoxious blocker... but Howling Mine providing enough spells to have additional "mini-Mind Funerals" finish off the opponent in the event of a stand-off.
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August 1, 2018 4:09 p.m.
Thank you FullmetalWes! I agree that Luminarch Ascension is a superior wincon and would gladly replace it. I just can never find it for sale as a playset at LGS or Cardkingdom/SCG... been tinkering with this shell for about 2years now... So when I discovered Hoofprints of the Stag I just decided to own it as an alternative... Even got some of the actual Tokens and find the visual amusing.
July 30, 2018 12:44 p.m.
Basically everything ToolmasterOfBrainerd said...be careful with having too many cantrips..when it comes to being "competitive" or "not shit"... at least as far as Netdeckers/Tournament play is concerned... but if in a lax play group/friends or a typical LGS a Chasm Skulker/Lorescale Coatl brew could be tasty.
Have you considered going with help from Simic players like Plaxcaster Frogling and Fathom Mage? Have some guys out there with evolve like Cloudfin Raptor and then using Bioshift or maybe proliferate spells like Steady Progress?.... there are lots of ways to play higher mana spells sooner with things like Explore/Coiling Oracle and classic mana dorks/rocks like Llanowar Elves/Simic Signet.... Shielding Plax for protection?... Kiora, the Crashing Wave for the lulz?
July 30, 2018 8:46 a.m.
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|Playing since||Ninth Edition|
|Avg. deck rating||10.64|
|Favorite formats||Modern, Casual|
|Good Card Suggestions||207|
|Last activity||6 days|