Good day to you!
You probably don't remember me. (You commented on my Chainer deck one time.) Now, that was some splendid advice, whereupon I would like to entreat your trenchant eye once more.
I have recently finished a Bladewing list, one that has had some pleasing results, but it hasn't felt as potent as my other decks. I enjoy drawing cards, I enjoy consistency, yet this strategy seems to lack both. I have playtested some of your decks, they all seem solid, so if you have the time I would love your input.
You may find it here: Lurid Revival
Thank you very much!
September 13, 2020 2:52 a.m. Edited.
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From your response, it's clear we have different deckbuilding styles and metas. My meta is litered with spot removal, if your meta if filled with board wipes, then you're golden because spot removal is worse for xenagos than board wipes as wipes cost more and are at instant speed.
You mention pressure, but say no to Elder even though he has trample? Sure he's not a dragon, but since you don't value card draw as highly as I do, then I understand your reasoning. For me, card draw is critical because you need to kill 4 opponents.
I mention CMC, which on a second look is pretty good for a Xenagos deck actually because my meta has decks which are pretty low to the ground (2.2-3.6ish) so being able to pressure your opponents before they combo off or develop a boardstate in which is difficult to interact with is crucial.
As everyone said above me, Greater Good is too good to pass up. Seriously. Even if your meta has board wipes over spot removal, you can still sac your beater to draw cards so it isn't wasted. The main use of this card is to sac your big beater after Xenagos pump in response to spot removal to draw cards, as your creature is dying anyways, you still get value.
You mention getting 1 dragon out and swinging for 10+, but how many times have you not been able to close out a game and are just top decking? I'm actually curious given how you described your meta, they seem much more casual than mine.
Draw Spell Mana Consumption - Yes a big issue, if you truly don't want to fine, but at the very least, bonder's enclave is a land so it doesn't actually take up a slot. Looking at your mana base and given we are in green, I think it can only benefit you, but it's not necessary.
You mention every turn your board keeps building, but if you're paying 5+ mana a turn for a creature, in a meta filled with board wipes, aren't they just wiping your creature you have on board until your next turn where yo u play a beater?
The Great Henge - I don't see how it's slow? It CMC is usually and pays for itself immediately.
Regarding Subpar cards....
I only now realized you were playing Dragon Tribal lol. But there is one in particular, Seedborn Muse. Muse is used in reactive decks, we are proactive, why not just get another beater rather than hoping to have an instant in hand with seedborn?
Concordant Crossraods - Given you are playing 1 creature a turn usually, why benefit your opponents with haste?
Asceticism - Wipes usually read can't be regenerated in my meta, so this only helps against spot removal which you said isn't much in your meta. Plus paying 5 mana to cast this and pass seems not optimal
September 25, 2020 9:39 p.m.
I completely missed that, oops. I will be sure to read those over again prior to suggesting :)
You mention in that description that aggro isn't huge in the meta, hence no constant mists. But then why glacial chasm? You mention it's an all star - I can see it work well with crop rotation. But the fact you have to sac a land each time it comes in hurts alot unless you have land recursion or a Titania no?
September 25, 2020 3:19 p.m.
Cool deck, curious why you have Akroma's memorial when it gives your creatures pro red? Do you often find yourself casting it and passing without a beater on board? Even if you have a beater, do you find them typically removing it in response to Akroma's cast?
I got some ideas for this deck. Looks prety solid.
September 25, 2020 1:56 a.m.
It's always nice to see a fellow Xenagos player. I have a couple thoughts on your decklist....
- Your average CMC is a bit high, if you were to cut some of the higher costed, less impactful creatures in place of ramp and card draw, the deck would function much more smoothly and consistently.
- There are several cards such as seedborn muse and dragon broodmother which don't fall under the typical Xenagos pattern. You want to ensure a steady stream of beaters. Sword of sinew, lightning greaves are all anti-synergetic with Xenagos as well.
- Related to #1, with the Eldrazi, you don't have enough ramp to hardcast them and cheating them into play with your various effects doesn't give you the cast trigger. While they are nice and powerful, to only be able to reliably cast them through hopefully drawing cheating in effects is subpar.
If you would like, lmk and I can provide you a detailed list of additions and cuts. Deck looks like a good first draft.
September 25, 2020 1:53 a.m.
Cool deck. Curious on your thoughts of swapping Gaea's Herald for Allosaurus Shepherd? Sheperd comes down more quickly, makes all your green spells uncounterable, not just creatures, doesn't help opponents due to it's asymmetrical nature unlike herald and is a decent mana sink in it's own right.
I want to recommend Kenrith's Transformation but I can't find a slot for it, perhaps Vivien?
September 25, 2020 1:03 a.m.
I just read your update. WOW, I really do love your descriptiveness! It's one of the things that I admire most about you as a deckbuilder. Have you considered Deserted Temple in place of Spikefield Hazard Flip/land? It can untap cradle, be used politically (has helped more than you would think, at least in my meta).
Why is Finale of Devastation under the "more lands" section? Perhaps I'm missing something obvious.
What is your meta like? I ask because I'm curious if you would consider swapping Terrastodon for Bane of Progress - Out of your 5 artifacts, top can save itself while compass turns into a land. The remaining artifacts, while helpful, are not crucial to your game plan. Your enchantments are a different story, but if you play against a lot of control, I figure it is worth considering. I see it is in your maybeboard.
How has the swap of adding in Terror of the Peaks and Warstorm surge been for you? Your deck seems to go tall and wide, mostly wide if I'm not mistaken. I can imagine it putting in serious work with something like Titania, Baloths, Scute
Nissa, Vital Force - Thoughts? It's ult is very easy to get, very powerful and relevant. It's +1 untaps cradle (albeit you probably wouldn't want to make it a creature unless you are going off that turn), makes strip mine/waste land a creature so if they threaten to remove Nissa you can blow up a land to make them suffer. Since it's an elemental it works with Angry Omnath. It can even make dark depths a creature (lol). It's -3 provides recursion for 75% of your deck. I find this card to be fun as I usually have a board with avenger + cradle, draw a bunch of cards into this, untap cradle, G-wave for the win.
Speaking of wins... Tooth and Nail? Albeit very expensive, might be worth considering. Avenger + Regal force is a fun time.
September 25, 2020 12:22 a.m.
- I would like a custom picture of Emrakrul the Promised end, something with squirrels preferably :)
- I would like a custom card that is black but does not have to do with creatures
- I love how T/O lets me put a decklist online is a clear easy to understand format despite my personal difficulties, I am able to understand it.
- Pharaoh's Tomb is my pride and joy. Still under construction, but mono black is so fun. Using and abusing coffers + urborg through all the good tutors, best spot removal and wipes, while mitigating black's weaknesses of artifact/enchantment removal. The deck has it's flaws, but despite them I am happy to create a unique mono black list which is still powerful yet tame, a creatureless mono black has always been a favorite of mine as it takes away one of black's greatest strengths. The deck originally had all 10 plagues of Egypt altered but the deck took a different direction during the process. Once the deck is more finalized, I will revisit introducing the 10 plagues of Egypt!
- I LOVE custom MTG products, particularly wooden products. I would recommend everyone who puts 2k+ in their deck to get a good deck box, and custom printed sleeves (I can link if needed).
September 24, 2020 5:38 p.m.
Agree with Plush, this is the lowest CMC Xenagos deck I have ever seen +1
Thoughts on adding Deflecting Swat in place of either pyroblast/red elemental blast or even vines of vastwood? Both blasts are only good against blue while requiring mana open. Swat is free and is much more versatile - Counter counterspells, reditect targetted draw, extra turns, removal, etc.... works on abilities too. Very good utility
I count about 5 draw effects, do you feel that is sufficient given your low CMC? It feels like you will dump out your hand, then maybe get board wiped and then be stuck with little/no draw. Can you give us a breakdown of what your typical T1-3/4 looks like?
I wanted to recommend Yavimaya Hollow but given your blood moon package and mana dorks, I feel it is unwarranted despite being Xenagos.
While anti-synergetic with null rod/ouphe, have you considered Skullclamp? It can provide value with your dorks when you are done with them and can draw you cards when your beaters get removed (assuming they don't remove in response to equip).
I noticed you took out life's legacy but have momentous fall in? I believe it would be easier to cast life's legacy after casting a beater rather than holding up mana for momentous fall. While legacy cannot be used in response to removal, I feel the above points hold more value.
I personally feel Elder Gargaroth > Hydra omnivore, as hydra makes you more likely to get removed as none of your opponents want to take damage. Elder comes down more quickly, is more versatile and draws you cards without making the table hate you.
I count about 13 beaters that put in damage, how often do you find yourself struggling to find a beater?
September 23, 2020 10:59 p.m.
Deflecting Swat > Bolt bend
Yavimaya Hollow - Regen
How have mana dorks been for you? I've seen Xenagos lists with them, they seem very hit or miss. Getting T1-2 dork is great, anything past just seems subpar?
September 22, 2020 2:54 p.m.
Myriad landscape in great in non-green decks. Would recommend you add it. Blighted fen costs too much for what it does and makes you down a land.
Hagra is bad, the ability to have a land or a removal spell isn't worth it IMO.
Sword of Sinew/steel is a cool idea, I would test it to see how it works
September 22, 2020 2:49 p.m.
I agree with you regarding the r/g flip land. For turntimber, I am seriously considering it. Yes, its not as good as genesis wave, but the fact that its a land and not taking up a slot is really powerful and the 3 life is negligible. For me, I find myself sometimes topdecking lands and if I get this land, then I can hopefully get a creature out with it. Just my 2 cents. I would love to see the updates. I'm gonna be updating my deck within the next couple months as everything finalizes. Just played a few games last night and I'm already excited. Can't wait to see your update :D
September 21, 2020 4:20 p.m.
Obscuring Haze > Spike weaver/spore frog? Or do you prefer them to be in creature form so you can tutor them and not an instant because of defense grid? I like it because its free interaction which is onesided unlike sporefrog and spikeweaker.
Conqueror's Flail > Defense grid? Same cmc, although you do need to pay equip costs and how they don't remove in response. But its a static effect instead of an additional tax in which they bypass the entire purpose. The boost is nice I suppose? I'm unsure myself
September 20, 2020 12:49 p.m.
Have you considered the 2x Zendikar rising lands. I forgot their names but
Turntimber Symbiosis(?) and the one that lets it tap for red or green depending on which side you play it. I think both are worthwhile inclusions given they are lands.
September 20, 2020 11:45 a.m.
Aaron Cain/MTG Custom Deck Boxes - Can make you whatever specifications you want
Wrymwood - Similar to above, better quality (so I've heard), more expensive
You can customize them as you wish with felt, request he make it a specific size, etc.... Highly recomend Aaron Cain
You can perhaps try ETSY for custom deck boxes as well that might suit your needs on a lighter budget but they won't get to the level of specification that Aaron Cain does unless they actually know what they're doing. Hope it helps!
September 19, 2020 5:43 p.m.
Thank you for your detailed response, it is much apprecaited as always. There are only 2 themes, land and power, Eldrazi used to be a theme. The 2x Kozilek's are to refill my hand once I drop all my lands, the ulamog is there for removal. My main goal in this deck is to get azusa out on T3, T2 if I get some ramp. Then use one of the many land tutors to search for either kozilek to refill my hand.
The sprinkle of going wide I recently tried to add as it fueled cradle but you are right, going wide doesn't work well. Its very hit or miss, 60% miss. I think by taking out going wide, and perhaps maybe Ulamog (I still need 2x Kozilek's for card draw, badly). Yes, I don't run a lot of interaction myself, I use the excuse of being green and hoping my opponents will kill each other. Not the best strategy, but a fun one.
Zendikar Resurgent - It's been helpful, but I can cut it. Its one of those cards I pay 7 mana for and unless I use it the same turn, they blow it up or else things get out of hand too quickly.
Shamanic Revelation - Super hit or miss. When it works, it works, when it doesn't, it draws me one card. I should note its super fun with rude awakening, but yeah, it's my primary cut for sure.
MAYBE Regal Force - Only ever good with Avenger, Baloths and Titania as it does not synergize with field of the dead of even rude awakening sadly. I want your thoughts on this as it is one of my targets for tooth and nail. Tooth and nail usually goes Greenwarden + Ulvenwald --> Cradle/Deserted temple, bringing back T&N. Then next turn cast T&N to bring Avenger + Regal. Outside of that, it draws me maybe 1-3 cards otherwise. Idk if it's worth it or what to replace it with.
MAYBE Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger - I like him because I use him with Sanctum to find either Kozilek. But its 10 mana to exile 2 cards and eat a path to exile. Costs a lot?
Mind's Eye - I'm unsure about cutting this. With all of the wheels and card draw in my meta, this has saved me from many tight spots. If I were to cut it, I might replace it with a Memory Jar, or perhaps just add in memory jar in place of one of the above cards.
Boundless Realms - WAY too good to ignore. Landfall triggers with baloths, field of the dead triggers, thinning the deck and ramping. This card has been an allstar and even with my relatively low basic count, it still puts in work.
Lightning Greaves - So simple.....idk why I haven't thought of it? Let me give that some serious consideration. I'm pretty sure you're right. Plus its nice to have an additional haste outlet, whether its to swing with only 1 creature after G-waving my entire deck onto the field and they remove akromas, or to give whatever land came onto the battlefield haste from rude awakening.
Crashing Drawbridge - I would add concordant crossroads before I add this. I don't need too much haste, it's not so much aggro as is value.
Green Sun's Zenith - EVERYONE recommends this card to me, I feel like I should add it just for that reason. Finding only green creatures is what bothers me, but I can definitely see it's potential. I'm going to seriously consider this as I think you are right, similar to lightning greaves.
Dryad Arbor - The potential T1 ramp with GSZ does not outweight the fragility of the land as a creature and it's lack of haste. I've often found decks that use GSZ to get Arbor T1 often just boardwiped quickly in my experience, it has happened time and time again in my meta.
Finale of Devastation - The concept of more creature tutors is intriguing for sure. It also acts as a late game haste outlet/finisher which is nice to have. I like the flexibility of it. Again, needs serious consideration. Thank you for bringing this (and others) to my attention.
Ancient Greenwarden - With life from the loam, CoW, Ramunap, I wasn't sure if I needed more redundancy. However, I think you're right. It's second ability is nice with baloths, field, avenger so I'm excited to see how that works. I'm most probably adding this.
Nissa, Vastwood Seer - Already in the deck, a pet card of mine. Not that impactful, but lowkey and helpful enough to give you value without being a target :)
For the distinction of going tall vs wide, I agree, taller is better. I've considered Return of the Wildspeaker, still not sure. Let me think about it. Prowling serpopod is nice, but I try not to put in too many slots just to deal with one of the many colors which I may or may not deal with. I have boseju and cavern for anti blue, I feel it is usually enough. Azusa fills the spot of wayward, hence me not running exploration/burgeoning despite my relatively high land count. I already put most of my lands on the field, so I don't need more land drops, I just need more card draw, desperately. Kogla is cool, nice synergy with Azusa too. Seems like more of a beater that doesn't have synergy with the deck unlike Multani/Ulvenwald, so it doesn't seem right at the moment. Then again, I should add more interaction in the deck so I will see...
Your comments have been very thought provoking, I need time to process it.
September 19, 2020 2 p.m.
Hello my good sir. I appreciate the feedback on Multani. I was hoping for feedback for my IRL deck Azusa. I have it the way I like, but I feel there is always more to improve.
September 18, 2020 5:15 p.m.
Turntimber Symbiosis - I like it because the 3 life is the cost to have the option of an additional card. Given as you said, it isn't like to whiff. Personally, I also refrain from cards like summoning trap and the like for the reasons you mentioned, whiffing and losing your mainphase. But with so many creatures and it taking up a land slot, I personally feel the versatility is warranted, not taking up a land slot but providing options for 3 life seems great.
Bala Ged Recovery - I am on the same page, every point you mentioned.
Moraug, Fury of Akoum - I feel so so about him. On the one hand he can get out of hand (lol). On the other, he is just a big dude with no trample. I dont have many ways of providing trample in my deck as most of my creatures either have trample or some sort of evasion. Plus it sucks to play him as a 6 drop when you have already played your land per turn. The idea with fetches is interesting for sure.
Also, what do you think of Garruk's Uprising and Elemental Bond? They will provide you draw for 25-27 of your creatures. Uprising also provides trample which is nice. I've needed more card draw in Xenagos and has 2 flex slots. I've been considering adding these in my deck link and wanted your opinion, for both your deck and mine. My deck solely relies on burst card draw, so some steady card draw might be worth considering. My only issue with both is that by the time I play them I might draw 1-2 cards before it probably gets destroyed. Its not removal bait, but I feel they take too long to get the value out of. Idk
Cragcrown Pathway - WTF is this? How have I not seen this in the set. It taps for red or green, depending on which side you play on the field? Thats crazy! I NEED this. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Inscription of Abundance - One of those cards I looked at and thought hard about. Your points are well taken, I like the cheapness and flexibility of it. The real benefits are the counters and fighting as life gain is not substantially helpful in my meta (unless of course you're playing against xenagos :P)
Cragplate Baloth - I feel the same way!
Shatterskull Charger - 3 mana on a small beater? You want to smash face, not give them love taps. The fact that it returns unless you kick it bothers me as its a continuous cost you need to pay. All of our creatures are effectively safe from sorcery removal as xenagos provides haste and we only play 1 creature at a time.
Lithoform Engine - One of those cards I'm always on the fence about. Even in my mono black deck where I can abuse it, it seems very winmore. It helps if I have the mana to cast everything I want, but until that point, its not that helpful. More playtesting would need to be done of course....but in Xenagos? You would play this (and maybe something else). Then cast a big creature and not have the 4 extra mana to copy it, or a big permanent spell. Of course it works with fetches, sorcerries, etc... but idk....? Once you add it in, please let me know how it functions.
Crawling Barrens - A worse version IMO of Dread Statuary. Both cost the same to activate. Barrens gives you better value over time, but dread gives you a better immediate effect. I would much rather pay 4 and then pay 5-6 for a draw spell to draw 8 cards (given xenagos boost) rather than pay 4 and then pay 5-6 for a draw spell to draw 4 cards (given Xenagos boost).
September 18, 2020 2:40 p.m.
Thank you for taking the time to go through my deck. Truth be told, I only own 7 decks IRL. This is not one of them, as it was further down my deck list. I completely agree with ALL of your suggestions, but I haven't taken a serious look at this deck in a while. I like to ensure all my decks are as I see fit until I take upon another project. This was/is a very very rough draft. Once I revisit this deck, I will make the changes as you instructed.
September 18, 2020 2 p.m.
Have you considered adding any of the new cards such as Turntimber Symbiosis, Bala Ged Recovery or Moraug, Fury of Akoum? I am adding turntimber for sure in my list, the other 2 I am unsure of. Moraug seems cool, but without trample, requires a trample enabler.
September 17, 2020 9:42 p.m.
What a well thought out and formulated response..... well done
Have you considered Yavimaya Hollow for additional protection? Could be tutored with crop rotation in response to removal for extra spice.
I am curious, if you had to cut retreat, what card from your maybeboard would you replace it with? I've always been partial to life from the loam. Almost guaranteed land drops, albeit, with the new Ancient Greenwarden, recursion might not be as much needed. So perhaps Eternal witness? Am unsure.
Given you have approximately 4 cards that help you ensure T3 commander, have you considered adding another ramp piece? Whether it doesn't take a land slot like Ancient Tomb or even the iconic sol ring?
September 17, 2020 7:05 p.m.
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|Playing since||Magic 2013|
|Avg. deck rating||13.78|
|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH|
|Suppressed formats||Standard, Legacy, Pre-release, MTGO, Heirloom, Vintage, Archenemy, Planechase, Vanguard, Modern, Pauper, Noble, Casual, Hero, Block Constructed, Limited, Tiny Leaders, Magic Duels, Penny Dreadful, Frontier, Leviathan, Brawl, Arena, Oathbreaker, Oldschool 93/94, Pioneer|
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