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Yavimaya Hollow Discussion
9 hours ago
I love Jhoira, it is a storm deck with a crazy powerful commander, two synergistic artifact colors, and the ability to run Mox Amber to its fullest extent, a card that screams commander, yet cannot be played in a variety of decks for many reasons. Captain Sisay actually also uses it to a great extent, abusing the commander that can fetch it because it is legendary to cast cards off of Paradox Engine, but again, that is besides the point.
Jhoira commonly needs to be all in to often storm off perfectly, and though by using Retract, Hurkyl's Recall, and Rebuild effects you can increase the amount of cards you draw to keep going off. Using effects that reduce mana costs is the backbone of the deck, and it is easy to see why this works when your commander can be cast using the artifacts you storm off with after she hits.
The issue comes with not depleting resources before you cast Jhoira, keeping jhoira on the field, meaning you have to run enough countermagic and removal to stop opposition, and also have enough to storm off after her, not fizzling when you draw dead lands or dead interaction. This balance requires a lot of work on the pilot to know when you have to mulligan to find more interaction. This isn't easy even for the best pilots in the best decks for the list.
Compare that to a stax deck that can shut off this deck with a well positioned Force of Will, Silence, Swords to Plowshares, or Dismember can not only stop you for a turn, but for many until you can rebuild at which point if a Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory, Damping Matrix, Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance or other random stax card hits you your out until you find an answer, of which your deck needs to run little of for fear of drawing too many when you try to combo out.
Not to menton some stax is anti-artifact, Kataki, War's Wage, Stony Silence, Null Rod, and a lot others will be nearly impossible to win through. The same is true for a lot of decks, but storm in particular due to their reliance on engines like Jhoira, Ad Nauseam or even Paradox Engine itself. These cards have answers, and will almost always lose given that the answer is found. It is sad, but the issue with storm.
Jeleva, Kess, and Yidris storm run tutors and are in black to make up for this, finding their engine before the opposition can answer it, but the card they find it Ad Nauseam, whereas even though Jhoira has already been found, being the commander of the deck, creatures are the easiest things to remove, and this is at sorcery speed to cast, so is weak to everything in essence. This means it is a weak engine, but still fast.
The biggest issue with Jhoira I haven't gone over though. Storm decks run storm cards. They run cards like Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, and Manamorphose if they are in color, these cards let you storm off with or without the engine, Kess Storm can go off with just some good cards in hand, Jhoira cannot do that. You can't storm off with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Lotus Petal, and a Sensei's Divining Top, it just doesn't work, but with Jhoira it is a perfect kind of hand, you can get her out turn one and have mana up for more stuff, however if your engine is off to any reason, the deck sucks really bad, as sad as it is.
Sisay is a stax deck, not a combo deck, I mean it runs a combo, but that is a finisher after it combos out, you can read more on it, but you are right, it isn't fast, control decks aren't often.
The combo is two turn win, Sisay hits, next turn you fetch Paradox Engine, cast it, cast something, untap sisay, fetch Mox Amber, then Mox Opal, Seton, Krosan Protector, fetch Bontu's Monument, Bow of Nylea, and Mikaeus, the Lunarch, let Mike die, get 3, use bow to put Mike on the bottom, fetch it, then loop this. Monument kills by draining each opponent.
This is all fetchable from the command zone, but also so it stax pieces like Linvala, the Preserver, Kataki, War's Wage, protection like Dosan the Falling Leaf and Yavimaya Hollow and removal like Mangara of Corondor. This outclasses Jhoira on the basis of straight consistency.
Frogger isn't my forteit, so I cannot vouch for it, but going against the deck is rough in many cases, it storms off through the graveyard, so my removal doesn't work. More in-depth descriptions elsewhere are on how it is so fast, but it uses a discard outlet and Frogger to cycle it's deck infinitely, a twocard combo with the commander, of which there are 7 or so other halves. That is insane consistency for combo decks often. Ask someone else for details.
Najeela can be made super fast, control, stax, what have you, it is a five color general with many two card combos with the commander, so that the deck is able to be blisteringly fast, or a slower deck, it is fully up to the pilot, unlike other decks in which the best variants are known. Druids' Repository is a great enchantment that goes through most stax, and it the most popular combo with najeela. She also is 3 mana, and has an occasional win under stax if the commander can just swing around like a kreno deck that doesn't die to Cursed Totem.
I hope you understand my take on this issue, and have cleared up the inherit flaws on jhoira and the reason some decks are better than it, not to say it is trash, just that as is, the deck isn't great in the meta.
2 weeks ago
Hey, looks good, looks fun.
Consider adding these cards:
- Command Tower
- Sol Ring
- Chromatic Lantern
- Greater Good
- Quicksilver Amulet
- Elvish Piper
- Eladamri's Call
- Summoner's Pact
- Eternal Witness
- Nature's Lore
- Woodfall Primus
- Iona, Shield of Emeria
- Day of Judgment
- By Force
Cards to consider cutting:
- Colossus of Akros
- Emrakul, the Promised End
- Nylea, God of the Hunt
- Primordial Hydra
- Ulvenwald Hydra
- Brutalizer Exarch
- Collected Company
- Eerie Interlude
- Boundless Realms
- Primal Surge
- Release the Gremlins
- Boros Garrison
Consider these cards to make the deck more competitive:
- Scroll Rack
- Fetch Lands
- Sneak Attack
- Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
- Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
- Blightsteel Colossus
Rack is busted with Mayael. You can repeatedly use cards in your hand to set-up the top of your library so when you look at the top five with Mayael you'll always have a creature to cheat into play. Sneak is excellent as an alternative way to cheat big creatures onto the battlefield while giving them haste. The Eldrazi: Kozilek and Ulamog are among the biggest and best creatures to cheat into play. Annihilator is busted with haste and when these Eldrazi/Blightsteel are sac EOT they go back into your library.
Competitive Commander manabases use Fetch lands. They're especially good with three, four and five color decks because they give you so many choices of lands since they can tutor for dual lands. ETB tapped lands are not what you want to play when being competitive. You want all your lands to ETB untapped so you can use the mana they provide the turn you play them otherwise you'll get too far behind, not able to cast spells. Consider these lands for a more competitive manabase: Fetch lands, Shock lands (already have them), Battle lands (already have them), Battlebond lands, Filter lands, Check lands, Rainbow lands?
Consider this more competitive manabase example:
- Ancient Tomb
- Arid Mesa
- Bloodstained Mire
- Bountiful Promenade
- Canopy Vista
- Cinder Glade
- Clifftop Retreat
- Command Tower
- Fire-Lit Thicket
- Flooded Strand
- Homeward Path
- Mana Confluence
- Kessig Wolf Run
- City of Brass
- Reflecting Pool
- Rootbound Crag
- Rugged Prairie
- Sacred Foundry
- Spire Garden
- Stomping Ground
- Sunpetal Grove
- Temple Garden
- Reliquary Tower
- Windswept Heath
- Wooded Bastion
- Wooded Foothills
- Yavimaya Hollow
- 5 Forest
- 2 Plains
- 1 Mountain
Good luck with your deck.
1 month ago
Wow, lots of tips Saljen. First of all: Thanks a lot for taking the time to leave some feedback! I think I’ve considered most of your mentions though and ended up not including them due to certain preferences. Lots of cards to respond to, so here goes:
- I used to run Hour of Promise and I like the card. However, I ended up cutting it when other land tutors were printed. I think it was Pir's Whim that has taken its place.
- Constant Mists I also used to run, but I found that I did not run enough cards that synergize with it. I would probably put it back if I ever change the list to be more graveyard-oriented (similar story for Sylvan Safekeeper), or if my meta starts playing more aggro. It is a card I really like though, so I would like to run it again.
- I’m aware of the Abundance Sylvan Library combo, but that situation will occur very rarely (especially as I run no ways to tutor for enchantments). So most of the time Abundance will see play on its own. And as a stand-alone card, I do not think it warrants a spot in the deck. Same story with Prismatic Omen, which only other synergy is it makes Dark Depths and Glacial Chasm tap for mana. These cards are great when they combo, but mediocre when they don’t imo. Gratuitous Violence only works when creatures deal damage, so I don’t see how that helps with valakut…
- Eternal Witness and Skullwinder are indeed great recursion cards! However, I run witness in so many decks already so I wanted to focus on lands in this list for my recursion cards for some variety. I prefer those recursion cards over witness and skullwinder.
- I never really read Realm Seekers well enough it seems :). Will reconsider that card!
- I’ve built this deck to make the lands shine! Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon turn the stars of my deck into mountains… I agree they are great cards for stalling opponents, but it goes against what I want to do with this deck. Also, I tend to steer away from cards that mess with my opponents' lands (already cut Jokulhaups for that reason). That’s also why I’m also not running Vorinclex.
- Yavimaya Hollow is useful, but not necessary in this list I think. I never really considered it for this deck however. So I will do that :)!
- I did not include Realms Uncharted in this list as I’m not focusing on graveyard synergy. But I never considered it in combination with Petrified Field, so maybe that will change things ^.^. However, I do really like the land tutors that are already in the deck.
- Wheel of Fortune is awesome. However, I only have one of them, and I put that one in a Daretti deck, where it is more valuable for the deck strategy. Here I can run other carddraw and not feel bad about it ;). I don’t think it makes a big enough difference here to warrant that price tag.
- T&N I am already considering in this deck, but haven’t decided on it yet :). Insurrection is nice, but does not have any synergy here with the strategy or themes (I do run it in another deck where I think it is more at home).
- I agree Decimate and Gleeful Sabotage are decent removal options, but I prefer the removal pieces I ended up selecting for this list.
- You did see I only run 5 mountains right? I don’t see how Boundless Realms is going to kill all opponents with Valakut unless I have valakut copied a bunch of times and if I have a bunch of other cards in play as well that I don’t run. I actually wrote quite extensively about why I do not run Boundless Realms in my description and I stand by those arguments.
Thanks a lot for dropping by. I will consider realms uncharted, petrified field, yavimaya hollow and realm seekers ;).
1 month ago
Hour of Promise can either grab the full Dark Depths combo, or it can grab Valakut + T-Stage, which gives you a lot of options. It can also pull out any other combination of helpful lands, like Glacial Chasm.
Constant Mists is a way to take advantage of your mass of lands, and can let you stay in the game far longer than you have any right to with this card.
Sylvan Library + Abundance is a pretty sweet little combo that lets you draw 3 cards per turn. Since Abundance "draw" triggers don't actually draw, but rather place the cards in your hand, as long as you trigger Abundance on all three Library triggers, you get to draw 3 cards. Both cards are obviously pretty good on their own too.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is just a stupidly awesome power-house. Not only does he double your mana, but he shuts down your opponents plays for as long as he's in play.
Realm Seekers often comes down with 15+ +1/+1 counters and can single-handedly set up any land combo you want.
Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon are great for stalling out opponents. They have the side effect of turning off Valakut though. I run them in my R/G Borborygmos deck and they pay off more often than they mess you up.
Sylvan Safekeeper can help you keep your permanents safe while throwing lands in the yard for later use.
The main reason to run Boundless Realms is as a win-con once Valakut is in play. It can often give you enough bolts to take out all of your opponents.
1 month ago
Yavimaya Hollow Is a great way of protecting Muldrotha from removal/some board wipes. I've been very impressed with it in my list.
1 month ago
1 month ago
Deserted Temple is great alongside Cradle and the other lands I just suggested.
Tolaria West would already be useful but becomes ridiculous alongside Life from the Loam.
Trade Routes might be strong here.
Arcane Denial over Deprive in a lands list?
2 months ago
While your deck is turned in hyper drive with ramp to get the combo out as fast as possible, 1 counter spell or 1 removal is all it takes to stop this deck.
in Cedh there are a a LOT of those.
I used to run a similar sisay deck with 40 lands, 45 ramp and the rest combo cards (I ran the saffi/yomi combo) and while it worked amazing vs casual groups, when going against Cedh players it got destroyed more then I liked.
I cut a bit of the mana ramp and added protection like:
Dosan the Falling Leaf
Rebuff the Wicked
Lapse of Certainty
Brave the Elements
Now the deck is still super fast, turn 2 sisay still happens but now I also win more.
Your opponents know they need to stop sisay or paradox engine and one of them will have the card to stop you, or worse they have a faster combo then you (flash hulk for instance).
I know it looks super cool beeing able to combo of super fast BUT in Cedh forget it, it aint happening unless you get super lucky that all 3 opponents have a bad opening hand