- 1x Argivian Archaeologist
- 1x Armory Automaton
- 1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
- 1x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
- 1x Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
- 1x Eternal Dragon
- 1x Grand Abolisher
- 1x Knight of the White Orchid
- 1x Leonin Abunas
- 1x Mother of Runes
- 1x Puresteel Paladin
- 1x Recruiter of the Guard
- 1x Reveillark
- 1x Serra Ascendant
- 1x Silverblade Paladin
- 1x Solemn Simulacrum
- 1x Stoneforge Mystic
- 1x Stonehewer Giant
- 1x Sun Titan
- 1x Transcendent Master
- 1x Weathered Wayfarer
- 1x Buried Ruin
- 1x Command Beacon
- 1x Drifting Meadow
- 1x Dust Bowl
- 1x Emeria, The Sky Ruin
- 1x Inventors' Fair
- 1x Kor Haven
- 1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
- 1x Mistveil Plains
- 1x Myriad Landscape
- 1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
- 1x Petrified Field
- 20x Plains
- 1x Rogue's Passage
- 1x Secluded Steppe
- 1x Strip Mine
- 1x Thespian's Stage
- 1x Argentum Armor
- 1x Batterskull
- 1x Champion's Helm
- 1x Conqueror's Flail
- 1x Darksteel Plate
- 1x Fireshrieker
- 1x Godsend
- 1x Loxodon Warhammer
- 1x Masterwork of Ingenuity
- 1x Swiftfoot Boots
- 1x Sword of Feast and Famine
- 1x Sword of Fire and Ice
- 1x Sword of Light and Shadow
- 1x Sword of the Animist
- 1x Sword of Vengeance
- 1x Umezawa's Jitte
- 1x All Is Dust
- 1x Austere Command
- 1x Day of Judgment
- 1x Open the Armory
- 1x Remember the Fallen
- 1x Steelshaper's Gift
- 1x Terminus
- 1x Wrath of God
Comments View Archive
Walking Ballista doesn't offer anything for this deck. Not going to waste space on a card that doesn't do anything.
February 25, 2017 10:14 p.m.
I belive that my deck My deck:
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 1 | 1 VIEW
is a good budget option to something like this, could you maybe give me some advice for how to make my deck better? What to take out and replace and such?
March 4, 2017 11:31 a.m.
"Not going to waste space on a card that doesn't do anything."
Yet you still run Transcendent Master, I mean I know it's a pet card but 9 mana for a 6/6 lifelink or 15 mana for a 9/9 indestructible lifelink is... well... it screams "do nothing" to me.
March 4, 2017 11:42 a.m.
oh in response to the walking ballista thing. Pet cards are pet cards bro. If he doesn't want to run a card that's fine.
March 4, 2017 1:56 p.m.
Noctem I understand pet cards are pet cards, hence me saying "I know it's a pet card".
I was just pointing out the irony of dismissing someone in a rather condescending tone for suggesting a card citing that it "does nothing" while simultaneously running a card that does indeed do nothing.
March 4, 2017 2:45 p.m.
Transcendent Master has a defined role in this deck. It's a back-up threat when Sram is unavailable or I need a deterrent against another player's. It may be just a french vanilla beater, but it's far from a 'do-nothing'.
March 5, 2017 2:13 p.m.
NensouHiebara So, it's a beater. Pure and simple. One that takes 15 mana for indestructible/lifelink. This will come off as a little cruel and whatnot but it's not intended as such, just a analysis of the card versus what your stated goals for the deck are. In advance sorry if I come off a bit harsh.
White has PLENTY of other beaters that are arguably better in slot. The first one that comes to mind is Soul of New Phyrexia because he can cover ALL of your permanents and an also do it from the grave. Now Soul is just an example but as I said, white/colorless has so many better and more efficient options like Etched Champion etc. I mean hell, Darksteel Myr is almost better in slot cause you are only spending on a already indestructible guy. You don't have to pay to find out if they've been sandbagging a Path.
Other than being a beater it IS do nothing. it's a 9/9 indestructible/lifelink for . The turn you play it it's usually for a 3/3 vanilla creature. It has no useful abilities the turn it's played nor does it really impact the battlefield when you play it since people can respond to each activation individually giving them PLENTY of time to respond and it's not like you can level up at instant speed so you can't respond to a wipe or removal by making it indestructible.
So, by your statement of "having no time for cards that do nothing" then you should have no time for Transcendent Master.
March 5, 2017 5:26 p.m.
I have played Transcendant Master in close to a hundred games and never was able to make him a 9/9, even when I tried doing so at the expense of more productive things. I understand your desire to not make this a "glass cannon," but I humbly submit that at least testing with a more combo-is version of the deck might yield some good insights. While Sram Cheerios may be a little glass-cannony, monocolored Voltron decks tend to be pretty flimsy themselves. I've logged a lot of games with 8.5 and, without green for auras and ramp, blue for control elements, or black for tutors and high-quality removal, mono white Voltron often itself feels rather thin, if not itself a glass cannon.That, and combo Sram is literally among my top five favorite decks I've ever played. It is so, so fun.If you haven't watched the Game Knights video with the Sram deck, I'd highly recommend doing so.
March 5, 2017 6:42 p.m.
Well, I don't know about "Glass Cannons" the way Sram has worked for me, I'm pulling off heavy card draw starting turn 2 while usually pulling massive utility & the threat of quickly commander damaging people out of games. All this done without worrying much about ramp, because the average CMC is ridiculously low & mostly colorless. Most decks are worrying about ramping while I'm already kicking them in their teeth. Combine this with a FEW key creatures Puresteel Paladin, Stonehewer Giant, etc... I wasn't saying pull ALL creatures but with the amount of early card draw I get I usually filter through my deck so disproportionately fast that I see my key creatures quicker than if I had loaded it with a bunch of mediocre critters in the first place... I play dirty also, so I tend to have all the MLD in there, once I start doing multi cast to filter through my deck I inevitably get Sram to a favorable board state and have a fantastic post-board wipe hand built up... And as for being taxed out of the game, usually a pretty hard feat for most to accomplish since you should have a TON of low CMC protection included (each one drawing you a card while protecting)... If someone wants to spend a bunch of mana to either creature wipe a 2 CMC or return all to my hand they can be my guest! He just comes out again and draws you a whole bunch of options.
March 5, 2017 10:25 p.m.
Transcendent Master is a 3-drop that upgrades itself, not a -costed creature. And it doesn't cost all that mana at once. If it's not ideal to level up Transcendent Master in a given situation, it's still a cheap, 3/3 body for Equipment and can be leveled up at a later time. It's second form as a 6/6 lifelinker is still potent. It's a flexible threat that's usable at any stage of the game. Not every creature needs a high-impact ETB or cast trigger to be effective.
And what card game are you playing where a 9/9 with lifelink and indestructible isn't doing anything? Is it not denting an opponent's life total? Is it not pressuring an opponent's creatures? Is it not keeping an opponent's threat at bay? A creature like that doesn't just sit around...
Soul of New Phyrexia - Worse than Avacyn, Angel of Hope (which I'm planning on dropping). Holding 5 mana every turn for indestructible is too much of a burden on my manabase. And I'm trying to keep the average CMC low. Adding a 6cmc creature isn't helping this plan.
Etched Champion - One of the advantages of Transcendent Master is that it can function without Equipment. This deck has enough small creatures that need Equipment to be of use as attackers. Compares poorly to Armory Automaton. Has the same P/T and cost as Champion, but with a much more desirable effect.
Everyone's meta is different. If Transcendent Master doesn't work for you, then it just doesn't work. It's not the card's fault that a meta is too fast for it or is more removal heavy.
I'm NEVER going to turn Sram into a combo deck.
I loathe combo decks in Commander. Commander games are supposed to be moderately lengthy good times. Nobody is going to have one when a player has a deck designed to win as fast as possible with a strategy that is a pain to deal with. And after the first game, everyone will either not want to play against it again or will completely collude against it in subsequent games to keep the combo from going off.
This is NOT what I want when I play Commander.
My Sram deck will forever be Equipment Voltron. Trying to convince me otherwise is a wasted effort.
March 6, 2017 1:51 a.m.
Didn't try to convince you of anything, mate; just thought you should look at some lists.;)The lower-to-the-ground Sram decks aren't really combo lists, in the true sense (like, say, an Azami or a Yisan or a Daretti deck); or, if it is a combo deck, it's a really slow one. I rather liken it to enchantress-style decks: lots of consistency and card draw; builds incremental advantage for the win eventual win; does NOT kill everyone at the table on turn 3.I guess there are Sram decks that can conceivably win (against one opponent only) on turn 3 or 4 but, if you watch the Game Knights video, you'll see that it's more about card draw and sculpting the perfect Voltron attack than it is about "comboing off." Yes, people are trying to get even more comboy-y with the deck by adding things like Aehterflux Reservoir but, even still, you're building up to one-shot one opponent; you're not trying to mill the table or anything. I do understand your resistance to pure combo, though.I'll concede, though, that it can be a bit combo-ish and, of course, we all have different tastes.But, as a thought experiment, looking at more (as you might say) combo-ish lists might help you better formulate your own list. Sram can be swapped in for 8.5, sure, but Sram also opens up more design space, even if you want to stay equipment Voltron.Also, if no one has yet mentioned it: Conviction is so good in any Sram deck.
March 6, 2017 7:25 a.m.
When suggested earlier, your reasoning for not including Mox Diamond was due to never needing to cast 8 1/2 tails on turn 2, making the card unecessary. Now, with a general that you "cast as soon as possible" to "begin the Commander Damage death clock much faster", why not reconsider Mox Diamond as a potential candidate to further facilitate the blistering speed of this deck(mox diamond/chrome/opal)?
March 8, 2017 9 p.m.
Is this the video you're talking about? If so,
The Sram player dealt a measly 6 total damage over 5 turns, and then died to poison on Turn 7 due to horrid mistakes and misplays. He never did anything with the cheap Equipment he drew cards with and the 8 additional cards he drew from Sram ultimately accomplished nothing. He was more interested in drawing cards than Commander Damage the entire time.
That Sram list in general very suboptimal. Sram is not an excuse to fill your deck up with crap. There are 15 or so weak Equipment in that deck that are essentially filler to draw cards off of Sram. This is a complete waste of deckspace. Not to mention the deck's lackluster removal, missing Voltron staples, and other questionable card choices...
I don't mind another fast mana rock to enable Turn 1 Srams more often and I'll most definitely consider Mox Diamond, but not the others.
Chrome Mox - Mox Diamond only needs a land. Land are easy to come by and basic Plains can be expendable. Chrome Mox, however, requires a coloured spell. I'm not willing to sacrifice a solid card in the opening hand for an early Sram.
Mox Opal - Can't be active on Turn 1 without specific cards in hand. Metalcraft is enough of a downside for it to be inactive during inopportune times.
March 9, 2017 8 p.m.
I agree with your assessment of Conviction. That card comes with a hefty bill for repeatable cantrip & not really offering any amazing utility, whereas I feel that Flickering Ward has a useful enough effect combined with just the right mana demand to make the cut. Really, IMO you can pay 3 cmc for one of the always-useful swords, get your card draw & probably find something else that will get you more draw anyway. I have found (at least in my deck) that I don't need to sacrifice utility for more card draw, I just draw in to more draw while fielding useful buffs (instead of worrying about 1 card recursion)
I'm sure those guys (in that video) know what they are doing & all, but I think the classic faux pas was made of focusing too much on card draw & too little on utility (even to the point of having 8 cards in hand). Usually at that point in the game that they reached I would have a mildly powerful Sram fielded, probably forcing people to discard on attack or double striking or some other useful ability (while also having some extra cards in hand)
March 9, 2017 10:34 p.m.
If anyone cares, there is a second game in that video (24:38), but it only further reinforces the major flaws that Sram list has.
At the end, with the help of Puresteel Paladin, he suited up Smuggler's Copter with 10 Equipment, but only got 7 additional power and an Inquisitor's Flail boost. Extremely inefficient. It wasn't even enough to finish off the Rishkar, Peema Renegade player with the dominant presence of the board, and he had a creature with reach to block anyway.
Which leads to the deck's bad removal. The Rishkar, Peema Renegade player was given free reign to control the entire table by generating insane plays with his artifacts and enchantments. White has all the tools to stop artifact/enchantment shenanigans, but the Sram player is missing them.
March 10, 2017 5:37 p.m.
Well I think you are spot on for the other game as well Nensou, you don't pull any punches on your comments but I do agree; the guy was fielding "crap" just for more card draw gimmick, I field equip with power & purpose while still getting a draw out of it, I don't fully agree that spot removal is a "must have" but it depends on your preferred method of control.
Equipping the smuggler's copter is lame anyway +7 power is much more significant on Sram. Obviously the opponent had no compunctions about using infect, so I see no reason not to have just tried commander-slapping him early
March 10, 2017 9:26 p.m.
I really like Unexpectedly Absent. It's a fantastic tempo play and has its moments when it works wonders. Instant-speed Planeswalker removal is also hard to come by in Mono-White.
It's also fun against Commanders! for "Return target Commander to the Command Zone" or the opponent losing a fresh card in their next draw is great.
Eiganjo Castle doesn't do enough. There's no reason to have a card that prevents only 2 damage to Sram when he's going to be suited up to always survive combat.
March 10, 2017 10:47 p.m.
Uh, ok and Mirran Crusader, trigger of swords are double
March 11, 2017 9:29 p.m.
Mirran Crusader - No interest. Out of all the available double strikers, Silverblade Paladin is the only one worth using. With Sram out, it's a Battle Mastery for him. If Sram is unavailable, it can pair with anything to have two double strikers to work with.
Double strikers in general aren't really needed when any creature equipped with Fireshrieker can perform the same task.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar - No interest. I've never had any decent results with effects like this. It's either I see them early enough for them to matter, or I draw them mid-late game when everyone's board is developed and are mostly ineffective. And this effect require multiple sources for consistency. This deck doesn't have the space for that.
March 12, 2017 12:24 a.m.
I'm going to assume being a voltron deck that double strike is really nice to have. While you already have Fireshrieker and Silverblade Paladin, would Battle Mastery and even Duelist's Heritage be of any interest even if just for redundancy's sake (even if not equipments)?
March 19, 2017 11:21 p.m.
March 21, 2017 10:59 a.m.
Battle Mastery - Like all Auras, it gets put into the graveyard when the enchanted creature dies, and this deck is low on enchantment recursion. Doesn't play well with an active Eight-and-a-Half-Tails or Sword of Light and Shadow.
Duelist's Heritage - Completely useless defensively. Can't tutor or recur it very well. Doesn't draw off of Sram.
Regardless, I don't want to have too many sources of double strike, as they don't stack and the extras would get stuck in the hand. The two I have is fine for now.
No interest in Helm of Obedience.
This isn't a combo deck. Adding combo wins would undermine the entire Voltron strategy.
March 21, 2017 3:23 p.m.
Good job lol I'm blind and boosted xPI like the deck. I have a Doran Voltron deck that is similar.
April 4, 2017 10:16 a.m.
Extraplanar Lens doesn't work well with a manabase with so many nonbasics.
I've done away with mana doublers in general, as they frequently end up as collateral damage from artifact hate directed at my Equipment.
April 4, 2017 4:20 p.m.
Sorry but there is no reason not to run the 0 drop equipments. It makes your deck a 93 card deck and in a 99 deck format, that's relevant. Their effects are relevant in combat and certainly not useless at all or you must not have played enough Sram. Extra toughness and vigilance matter the most but drawing cards is good regardless. The deck isn't cheerios just because if you run them, you run them because they are good. They are also are broke with Golem-Skin Gauntlets and Puresteel, like most things are. Same with Flagstones of Trokair, Eiganjo Castle, and of course fetches. You run significantly worse land so there is no reason these shouldn't be in over them and yes fetches do help deck thin and do matter with Sun Titan. You should run them. The other 2 swords are still 100% good enough to run and space should be made for them. Flickering Ward is insane and I'd find room for it and Angelic Destiny as well, probably only other aura worthwhile. Skullclamp is broken and should be ran. Dispatch is arguable better than Path as you will almost always have metalcraft which is helped by the Ancient Den and Darksteel Citadel you "dismissed" and aren't running. With those, Mox Opal should be run as it's essentially Mox Pearl. I'd also suggest Mana Vault and Grim Monolith. And the land destruction like Armageddon and Ravages of War are needed and once again combos with Flagstones and Darksteel Citadel. They allow you to control the table and actually kill 3 other players with the time provided or secure your win in a 1v1. Nearly every card in your notable exclusions are great and 100% usable. They certainly should be run, but you come off arrogant when dismissing them for no good reason other than "I dont wanna play these cards because I can't evaluate cards", not to mention you are handicapping yourself while doing it.
April 5, 2017 10:19 p.m.
April 5, 2017 11:11 p.m.
Also, most 0-1cmc Equipment are pure trash. Bone Saw, Accorder's Shield, and other such Equipment have no place in a tuned Voltron list. They don't do enough in an format where you're fighting against multiple opponents with higher life totals.
There's no need to be fancy. Drawing off of Sram should be seen as a bonus, not an excuse to dilute a deck with crap. Bad Equipment that suddenly cantrip are still bad.
Flagstones of Trokair does absolutely nothing unless someone's using mass land destruction. Even in the event of that, one Plains is meaningless as the player who cast the mass land destruction spell should have sealed their victory with it. Otherwise, they're wasting everyone's time and ruined the game.
Eiganjo Castle's damage prevention is extremely narrow and minuscule. Why bother with a land that prevents 2 damage to a legendary creature when this deck has three of the Mirran Swords, Darksteel Plate, Mother of Runes, and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails?
Fetchlands are pointless in a mono-coloured deck. The main purpose of using Fetchlands is colour-fixing, which Mono-coloured decks do not need.
Deck-thinning through Fetchlands is a completely negligible gain. The lone Sun Titan in the 99 doesn't change that.
My land base is extremely tight. I can't just plug in every single utility land available. Some utility lands are simply not that great in this deck or in Commander in general.
I don't use the other two Mirran Swords because they don't generate the same level of value the others do.
- Outside of its impractical milling, Sword of Body and Mind only creates 2/2 Wolves.
- Sword of War and Peace is completely boring and doesn't generate any tangible value at all. Protection from White also causes issues with Godsend and any Aura additions that make their way into this deck.
Why would I force space in this deck for them when their effects aren't worthwhile?
I plan on adding Flickering Ward. It's a really good utility card.
But I don't have any current plans on adding other Auras. This is still an Equipment Voltron deck. I'm not going to fill the deck up with Auras. No intention of using Angelic Destiny.
Dispatch is conditional. It requires metalcraft to be active for it to kill a creature, whereas Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares can always kill a creature regardless of my boardstate. Path and Swords are the King and Queen of White's creature removal. Dispatch is the court jester.
Ancient Den and Darksteel Citadel aren't used because they don't do anything. Every utility land in this deck offers some meaningful ability. The artifact lands only produce mana. Ancient Den is also collateral damage from an opponent's artifact sweeper. There's too little gain from the artifact lands.
I'm keeping mana rocks to an absolute minimum. With Equipment being a central focus of this deck, every other artifact can end up as collateral damage against an opponent's increased use of artifact hate directed towards my Equipment. I have a few mana rocks in my Maybeboard, but Mox Diamond's potential for a Turn 1 Sram will win out. No interest in additional mana rocks beyond that.
Mass land destruction has too much stigma attached to it and I personally don't like them for Commander. Never going to use them. If I'm going to win, it's through an Equipment-boosted creature, not because I popped everyone's land and they couldn't play the game.
I've had this deck for over 5 years. I've exhausted pretty much every option available to construct a deck that I'm comfortable with and enjoy playing. Not every card can fit into a single deck and not every person likes the same cards.
April 6, 2017 11:20 a.m.
Any thoughts on Darksteel Mutation? It's great for dealing with troublesome commanders. Also triggers Sram
April 11, 2017 7:10 p.m.
I don't like Aura-based 'removal'. They don't actually remove the targets from the battlefield, most don't stop static and triggered abilities, and the targets are completely fine when the Aura is removed. They're worse than Oblivion Ring-style removal.
Darksteel Mutation in particular has that weird thing of giving the enchanted creature indestructible. If a creature is causing me grief, I don't want to make it harder to kill, even if it's being reduced to a do-nothing 0/1.
Mono-White is swimming in powerful, efficient removal options. There's no need to use the suboptimal Aura stuff.
April 11, 2017 8:44 p.m.
Ah I remember this beauty with Eight-and-a-Half-Tails years ago glad to see it still owns, and is being updated!! Looks amazing still ;)
May 5, 2017 10:33 p.m.
I personally think Leering Emblem with Flickering Ward would be the coolest thing ever, and they're both useful on their own. The number of board wipes and indestructible guys you run might warrant giving Blade of the Bloodchief a second look, too. Other considerations include Empyrial Armor, Shielded by Faith, Open the Vaults, Captured by the Consulate, and Lightmine Field.
May 8, 2017 1:23 a.m.
Blade of the Bloodchief - Needs too much work for +1/+1 counters and is a terrible late-game draw.
Empyrial Armor - I don't like how varied the P/T is offers is. I could easily have a rough game with Sram stuck in the Command Zone and be left with a dwindling hand like normal. I'm also more interested in effects that offer more than just P/T boosts.
Shielded by Faith - Not too interested in it. I mainly use indestructible as a way to survive combat. Outside of Sram or whatever back-up creature I'm using, most of my creatures stay out of combat. And Darksteel Plate is much easier to tutor for.
Open the Vaults - I don't like mass recursion that affect my opponents. I want my opponents' destroyed artifacts and enchantments to stay in the graveyard.
Captured by the Consulate - I don't like its third ability to redirect spells. Opponents can bank off the others not being able to remove their treats with targeted removal. Only stopping the enchanted creature from attacking also makes it comapre poorly to other effects, such as Arrest.
Lightmine Field - I stopped using defensive effects. If my opponents' creatures are becoming too much of a problem, I'll use a sweeper.
May 8, 2017 11:08 a.m.
If you dont mind me asking, why play Godsend in the deck? was curious when this was Eight-and-a-Half. :) thanks
May 9, 2017 9:48 p.m.
Godsend's triggered ability is amazing, completely skewing combat in my favour.
- Blocking will exile one of their better creatures if they don't have expendable weaker creatures or tokens to chump with.
- Not blocking to save their valuable creatures gives this deck what it wants: Sram dealing Commander Damage.
- Having it equipped to an untapped blocker keeps me protected from any non-evasive threat.
May 9, 2017 11:14 p.m.
Elbrus, the Binding Blade Flip is a very good card because you can put it onto the battlefield for free a lot of times with your deck. Even better in multiplayer because when someone loses the game it gets 13 +1/+1 counters
May 16, 2017 9:18 p.m.
no it actually doesn't. It's just like how you can run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in any deck because it does not actually have the symbol on it. You can for sure run it. there is not a swamp symbol on it.
May 16, 2017 11:29 p.m.
pauldiamond64 Check the flip side of the card, see that little Black dot? That's a color indicator, making the flipside a black card.
Regardless of it's color it's mana cost at 7 mana is laughably too much for a deck like this anyway. Lower curve is better with Sram because you want to take advantage of that draw clause as much as possible.
May 16, 2017 11:44 p.m.
What about Auriok Steelshaper as an addition to your ramp? If you have a few equipments on the board, it could act like a very good mana dork. I feel that your deck needs more ramp options.
The anthem is just a bonus.
May 17, 2017 3:30 a.m.
903.4 - The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that cards mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities or color indicator.
903.4c - The back face of a double-faced card is included when determining a cards color identity.
Auriok Steelshaper is too low-impact. Shaving off isn't as impressive as Puresteel Paladin's metalcraft ability providing free equips or the handful of other cards that completely circumvent costs. It's anthem is also weak. +1/+1 to all Soldiers and Knights isn't effective when I only have so many creatures out at a given time, and there are only 4 Soldier and Knights total in the deck.
I'm currently exploring additional ramp options, but I feel like I don't need too much more. This deck already has six ramp cards alongside four cards that assist in land drops. I can only add so much ramp and land tutor effects before it starts to eat up space for other needed cards.
May 17, 2017 10:24 a.m.
Crucible of Worlds instead of karmic justice. Tormod's crypt instead of rest in peace. Those two would be my suggestions.
May 19, 2017 3:22 a.m.
Also, flagstones and dust bowl are fun together. Especially with that crucible :)
May 19, 2017 3:27 a.m.
Tormod's Crypt - Not strong enough. I used Relic of Progenitus before Rest in Peace was printed and eventually replaced Relic with RIP. In games where grave-hate is absolutely needed, I want the graveyards to be empty and stay that way.
Flagstones of Trokair - Useless. It does absolutely nothing while it waits to be destroyed. I have ZERO interest in it.
May 19, 2017 8:59 a.m.
On the sweeper side, any thoughts on Descend upon the Sinful? Maybe exiling could help dealing with problematic creatures. Also may give you an angel to beat
May 19, 2017 11:34 a.m.
Do you find yourself having to play around that Rest in Peace? It seems like it turns off so much good recursion in your deck. I generally play in 4-6player groups so my suggestion of Tormod's Crypt over Rest in Peace is that I'd rather have a rattlesnake than 3-5 other people all hating on me for having it in play. Crucible is great in my meta due to the land hate, which then makes flagstones good.
May 19, 2017 1 p.m.
At 6 mana, Terminus wins out as the expensive, creture-only sweeper due to its miracle ability. This deck doesn't have a consistent way to enable delirium, making Descend upon the Sinful pretty much the same as Final Judgment, which I also opt not to use.
Rest in Peace keeps all graveyards empty and also stops death triggers, bringing any graveyard strategy to a complete halt until it's removed. Popping one grave once isn't enough. Having a rattlesnake makes opponents bait it to have it pop early. Graveyard decks are going to get more mileage out of the 'yard than my creature and artifact recursion. I don't mind botching my own recursion if it means locking all graveyard strategies in a stranglehold.
My meta isn't trigger happy with land removal. Crucible of Worlds wouldn't be very effective. Only using it to retrieve utility lands is too narrow to warrant a spot in the deck.
Interactions don't automatically redeem bad cards. Flagstones of Trokair is still the severely lacking utility land it will always be even with synergy with other cards.
May 19, 2017 9:04 p.m.
I've never understood why you constantly hate on Flagstones. It doesn't etb tapped and in the case that someone new to your group brings MLD or someone gets nasty with an eldrazi titan you have the flagstones. I mean, if no one has that it's a etb untapped W source but if someone does happen to run incidental LD or "each player sacs a permanent" you can sac it and net gain.
I just don't understand the hate for it. (Also flagstones is NOT a bad card, it may not be the most useful thing in your specific deck but that doesn't make it a bad card.)
Is it a money thing? Cause if it is that's not fair to the people who have suggested it in the past. If it's not a money thing there's really no reason not to run it.
May 19, 2017 9:11 p.m.
Apologies, "constantly" was supposed to be "consistently"
May 19, 2017 10:44 p.m.
There are utility lands have powerful activated abilities, valuable ETB and upkeep triggers, or game-altering static abilities. Flagstones of Trokair just sits there waiting for something to pop it, and all you get is a Plains for your troubles.
There's is no "incidental" land destruction. If a player blows everyone's lands up, it's because the fully intended to. And the player casting the land destruction spell should be securing their victory with it, making the tapped Plains gained from Flagstones of Trokair completely negligible.
I don't understand is why everyone seems to believe that a land that replaces itself with a tapped Basic is meaningful in a 99-card singeton format.
May 20, 2017 12:10 a.m.
Because it's strictly better than a plains. Whether you think so or not it IS strictly better in almost every sense outside of Emeria which is a largely irrelevant argument due to the number is basics and the fact that Emeria is reduculously slow.
Lastly, it's not like you're running Strata Scythe so again, largely irrelevant.
As I said, it's strictly better than a plains. Period. Which is why everyone and their mother keeps suggesting it. There's a reason why it has an actual price tag.
May 20, 2017 7:01 p.m.
Agreed with above, strictly better. Offers solid bounceback for MLD. Not AMAZING in this deck but it is not a "bad card" or "do nothing" card. Always is a nice card to have in my Sram deck due to the speedier recovery from my own MLD.
May 20, 2017 9:17 p.m.
This doesn't change the fact that Flagstones of Trokair doesn't add to my deck in any meaningful way. Replacing a Plains with it doesn't significantly enhance the deck's performance, so why should I even bother? I'm not going to burn resources acquiring a card my deck doesn't need. My money is better spent on other things.
Flagstones of Trokair's price tag comes from the fact that it's a decade-old card with a unique effect that was never reprinted. Supply of it is low and it slowly built value over time. It would be much more expensive if it were used in any notable Modern or Legacy decks.
One land after mass land destruction is irrelevant. If the player casting mass land destruction hasn't essentially won on the spot just by having the strongest board, they're wasting everyone's time.
May 20, 2017 11:32 p.m.
NensouHiebara You asked "I don't understand is why everyone seems to believe that a land that replaces itself with a tapped Basic is meaningful in a 99-card singeton format."
I answered you the exact reason why everyone keeps suggesting it. It's strictly better than a plains in every meaningful way, people see that and try to help but you consistently call it a "bad card" which, in point of fact, it's not.
It does see play in soul sisters, B/W smallpox, Nahiri sometimes plays it, and Death and taxes calls for it as well. (I've also seen it in B/W tokens decks) Mostly fringe decks but all on the edge of being playable in modern and a few of those are quite popular.
Your statement "I'm not going to burn resources acquiring a card my deck doesn't need. My money is better spent on other things." however, indicates that the reason that you don't want to run Flagstones is purely that you don't have one and you don't want to spend the money on it. (Which is what I was getting at when I asked if it was a money thing)
It does help your deck, even in a minuscule way, and saying that your money is better spent elsewhere is not a reason to call a card "bad". Why not simply say "I'd rather not spend $18 for a card that doesn't help me much" instead of trying to say "It's a bad card" every time it's brought up? Because saying that a card is bad, while it isn't bad at all, doesn't make sense to most people. (Especially when those people know that it's a good card)
I can understand not being able to justify spending $20 on something that only helps a deck win .1% more often. Trust me, I get it completely, I do it all the time for my 3 cEDH and 5 competicasual decks. What I cannot understand is telling people that a good card is bad just because you don't think .1% is worth $20. If I can't justify it I simply tell them that I can't justify the expense, simple as that.
May 21, 2017 12:05 a.m.
Even if I did own Flagstones of Trokair, I still wouldn't use it. I own a lot of cards in my Notable Exclusions list, and they're stored in a binder.
If all Flagstones of Trokair can offer is minuscule advantage, I might as well keep the Plains.
I call Flagstones of Trokair "bad" because, at least in Commander, it is. The task it performs is mediocre and has narrow applications. Not every utility land is going to be some all-star or hidden gem. Sometimes, cards are just bad and there are more worthwhile options to use instead.
May 21, 2017 12:33 p.m.
Nope, in a monocolor deck with MLD in play immediate land andvantage is not so "miniscule advantageous" as you claim, especially when you tend to reset with another plains drop the next turn (and your opponents are bottlenecked with multicolor land fetching). I have had several opponents play MLD for many reasons besides a complete gamelock, usually they see they are on a losing trajectory but can right the ship with a manasource reset... But your overaggressive rants are enjoyable so I keep poking the bear, I do agree with about 1/2 or so of them, just not this one.
May 21, 2017 2:38 p.m.
Land advantage shouldn't matter. Mass land destruction spells should seal victories and end games on the spot.
May 21, 2017 2:51 p.m.
In point of fact it does see massive amounts of Commander play. GoST, Kytheon, GAAIV, etc will all use it, these are all cEDH and French (may as well be singleton legacy) decks on mtgtop8 if you don't believe me, feel free to look, it's all there plain as day.
You have missed my entire point of having this discussion though, my point is that you dismiss cards that are good and say they are bad when they are clearly not. You have, in the past dismissed fetches as well citing that they only provide minimal deck thinning and that they are bad in mono color decks.
My only point to this whole discussion is that you shouldn't just dismiss something in that manner because you make the people who take the time to HELP you optimize your decklist feel like their good and valid suggestions are "bad".
I have been simply using Flagstones as an example. A user suggested it and your response was exceedingly caustic. (You have been like this with me in the past as well but I've elected to ignore it mostly.)
What this means is that you are alienating people who are trying to help and thus pushing people away.
If you are kinder about your responses (even if it's just "please see the notable exclusions section, it'll explain my reasoning") then you will get people coming back.
Remember, the people suggesting flagstones, fetches, etc are trying to help you.
May 21, 2017 2:57 p.m.
Since when did TO become so toxic that you can't let someone have an opinion about a card that differs from yours? Why does it affect you people so much that someone doesn't want to run a card that has a 0.01% change on their deck? lol
If someone's opinion isn't yours, why do you feel the need to convince them at every possible turn? At that point you're acting like a 14 year old learning how to debate in highschool for the first time. Have fun kids.
May 21, 2017 3:35 p.m.
That's not the point, the point is that he's being caustic to everyone else about it for even suggesting it.
I'm not trying to change his mind about running a card, I'm trying to point out that the way that it is done is toxic.
I said before, there is quantative evidence that Flagstones (and fetches for that matter) are good cards. However, in single color decks the usefulness is reduced by a large margin. However, that doesn't change the fact that they ARE good cards. Therefore calling them bad is a fallacy. That's not an opinion, that's fact.
It's OP's opinion that they are not worth the marginal gain. I never argued with that. I'm simply calling OP out on trying to say that good cards are bad because its not fair to those who suggested them.
Tl;dr I'm not arguing about an opinion and trying to convince him that his opinion is wrong. I'm trying to show him that there is a better way to state his opinion and not come across as toxic.
May 21, 2017 5:39 p.m.
To to bring someone to your side you decide to essentially berate and harass them instead of moving on with your life? How sad can you, a grown man, be when you've got nothing better to do than regulate how someone responds to getting the same suggestions for their deck despite stating they don't want to use those cards? It comes off as not only childish, but rude and a huge waste of your time.
You think you sound smart and reasonable but you're the one coming onto his decklist and acting high-and-mighty. Get off your moral highground and do something productiive kiddo.
May 21, 2017 5:58 p.m.
I don't care about how effective a cards is in cEDH or 1v1. This deck is neither of them and discussing cEDH and 1v1 here is irrelevant.
I dismissed Fetchlands because monocoloured decks don't need colour-fixing. Without that need, Fetchlands have minimal use. This is the same reason why I don't want to use Flagstones of Trokair: Minimal use.
May 21, 2017 6:14 p.m.
And who are you to come in, not at all involved in this at all, to berate me?
I am not berating anyone, I'm simply trying to explain how being caustic to people wasn't right to do. I've not been nasty this whole time.
However, you have come in and called me a "sad man" and "kiddo". Not once did I resort to name calling so I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
All I said is that he shouldn't be so toxic to other people who are trying to help. That's not moral high ground, that's being a decent human being.
May 21, 2017 6:15 p.m.
Off the rails here... but in a MLD heavy meta from a majority of the games I've played they have not acted in such a game sealing manner as you'd think, They have acted as soft resets (my entire group plays so many self-reliant permanents - think Atraxa, Zur, etc... & MLD is a parallel affect). I think the perception of those spells has been blown out of proportion, it depends, but often enough there is more game to be played after one of those hits
I honestly expected a more surly - Professor Farnsworth style response to my attempted trolling there
May 21, 2017 8:38 p.m.
His other utility lands are more useful to be replaced by Flagstones, cEDH decks don't focus on Emeria, and MLD is a rare phenomenon in his meta, so I understand his point. Stop complain about it!
May 22, 2017 4:02 a.m.
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|Date added||4 years|
|Last updated||4 days|
This deck is not Commander / EDH legal.Highlight illegal cards
|Illegal cards||Recruiter of the Guard|
|Tokens||1/1 Kor Soldier, 0/0 Germ, 1/1 Soldier, Equipment, Elspeth|
|Folders||favorites, Commander, great edh deck, Faves, EDH, EDH Decks, decks i want to build, edh, EDH, Decks Im going to get soon, See all 345|
|Top rank||#15 on 2016-01-25|