Description

Introduction

This is a tournament-level combo control deck. It is designed to win in high-pressure environments by withstanding incoming disruption, suppressing opponents, and using efficient and powerful combos.

This deck is built around a network of synergies; the combos have interchangeable pieces, and the cards that support them can be used outside of the combo as general utility cards. Because the number of combo-only cards is minimized, the deck's resilience is increased, and the odds of drawing dead cards are decreased.


Soundtrack



The Primer



Feedback

Comments, suggestions, criticisms, and ratings are all welcome!

When recommending cards, please remember that this deck is tournament-oriented and must only contain the most efficient and powerful cards available. Please do not suggest casual or otherwise nonviable cards for inclusion. Also, please keep in mind that the deck is based around a network of synergies; combo-related cards should be useful outside of their combos.

Comments View Archive

WakeTheDrummer says... #1

Soz for not checking the Ommissions, I kinda understand, in my opinion situation the worse case scenario is if they can remove Damia, Sage of Stone between an end step and your upkeep since you don't draw up to 7 cards.

You could discard 3 cards and keep some in hand for counter counterspells. Also even if they counter after you discard your hand, if Damia, Sage of Stone is on the feild you just draw a new grip.

Of course it is your deck and upon review I'm glad to see you've previously looked into it. When I've seen other Damia decks i can't see it in the deck and not even included at all on EDHRec last time I checked. This might indicate everyone feels it's too risky but I personally still think it's worth it.

August 12, 2016 3:49 p.m.

XxFATMAN247xX says... #2

Came across this gorgeous deck, is this final, and how often do you update the list? I am going to make this, this weekend.

August 15, 2016 10:20 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

@WakeTheDrummer: I suppose it depends largely on the situation. This is designed to be a competitive deck, so I don't really include big-risk-big-reward cards. I tend to favor more consistent, conservative options if they're available. In a semi-competitive or casual Damia build, I certainly think Insidious Dreams is worth consideration.

@XxFATMAN247xX: The list doesn't really change all that much. Part of that is that I don't really play anymore (if you want to buy this deck, let me know). Part of it is that most new cards just aren't better than anything in the deck. There's also some room for tweaking things according to your meta and your preferences.

August 15, 2016 10:33 p.m.

enpc says... #4

You looking to sell the actual deck again Epochalyptik?

August 15, 2016 10:57 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #5

I've been meaning to sell it for a while. I just haven't gotten around to it. I should probably update my binder, too.

August 15, 2016 10:58 p.m.

XxFATMAN247xX says... #6

Oh, I definitely dont have the money for the 2k deck, this is gonna be a deck in the making. I have about 30 cards, the rest will be proxies until the 1st and 15th of every month, spending about 150-200 each paycheck getting the rest I need :)

August 15, 2016 11:43 p.m.

XxFATMAN247xX says... #7

Oh, I definitely dont have the money for the 2k deck, this is gonna be a deck in the making. I have about 30 cards, the rest will be proxies until the 1st and 15th of every month, spending about 150-200 each paycheck getting the rest I need :)

August 15, 2016 11:43 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

For reference/discussion:
Leovold, Emissary of Trest

August 17, 2016 11:26 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #9

Yeah I was literally just going to link that to you. I'll definitely be using that dude in a 75% capacity. What I don't like is how conditional the card draw is. But what I do like is how much pressure it puts on the opponent if they HAVE to answer what you're doing (i.e combo'ing off) and obviously the mana cost is pretty agreeable.

Upside downside.

I think in reality it might end up like Mystic Remora. Sure it's very conditional card advantage but in reality it always nets you value because opponents want to do stuff and interact with you. Much the same reasoning is applicable here - no draw is concrete but if you're forcing the opponent to answer your board state or lose then it's a different story.

August 17, 2016 11:37 a.m.

I don't think it belongs in here (definitely not commander, probably not in the 75), but I am excited to switch my budget tasigur combo (really bad idea deck) to a Leovold goodstuff deck. Perfect for budget and is still BUG, which is what I want to play.

August 17, 2016 11:59 a.m.

Have you thought about Villainous Wealth as an alternate win card to Blue Sun's Zenith in the off chance the Blue Sun gets taken out of the picture?

By itself it also can be a late game mana sink to steal cards from your opponent.

August 17, 2016 11:44 p.m.

enpc says... #12

Raging_Squiggle: Straight from the primer:

Villainous Wealth

This card suffers from the same awkwardness and general irrelevance that plagues Exsanguinate. It's not relevant outside of the combo, and it's just a win-more card once the combo is initiated. There are other finishers (e.g., Blue Sun's Zenith) that serve practical purposes as utility cards outside of the combo. Further, it's generally inadvisable to rely on an opponent's resources to win the game. A good combo deck should be able to rely on only itself to guarantee victory.

August 18, 2016 1:19 a.m.

Emzed says... #13

Have you ever considered Gemstone Caverns? It seems like it has a high ceiling when in your opener and isn't all that bad if you draw it later.

August 20, 2016 11:55 a.m.

Hey Epochalyptik if there was no ban list, which cards would you change out in favour of Black Lotus and the moxen etc?

August 22, 2016 6:51 a.m.

Matheyru says... #15

What about Recurring Insight instead of Consecrated Sphinx? I find that the sphinx suffers from the same downsides as Damia (namely it's a creature and is therefore very easy to remove) and it does basically the same thing that Damia does at a similiar cmc. On the flip side, Recurring Insight is a sorcery and is much harder to get rid of, plus it gives one cards the moment it's played. Usually it gives me about five cards each time it's cast, and it has rebound. Not sure if my playgroup just plays more spot removal than the tournament level that this deck is made for.

August 22, 2016 12:46 p.m.

IQuarent says... #16

I came upon this deck at the behest of another that credits you as their motivator, and there is a certain quality both their deck and your deck have that flabbergasts me.

Infinite mana doesn't make an auto-win. I have read through this entire description and the only win-con that actually kills an enemy off combo on the spot is Blue Sun's Zenith. Once you go infinite and have sufficient board control, then what? What if you don't have Blue Sun's Zenith or a way to obtain it? Deadeye + Palinchron + Venser?

Blue Sun requires 3 castings and shuffles itself back in on resolution. What is your solution for that? Do you Blue Sun's Zenith targeting yourself first?

The deck has many favorable redundancies to ensure victory and yet don't run more draw X spells? Why?

August 25, 2016 10:35 p.m.

enpc says... #17

IQuarent: Typically when you Tooth an Nail you will get a selection of cards that ends with you having Deadeye Navigator, Palinchron and Rune-Scarred Demon. This will give you access to your entire deck.

And yes, while USZ is the primary win condition for the deck, you can also Venser, Shaper Savant your opponents' entire board and then causally swing through with commander damage over the next few turns. And because you have unlimited access to Venser, you can basically had lock your opponents out of the game while you do it.

August 26, 2016 12:09 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #18

I know it's in your maybeboard already, but I've always preferred Trickbind over Stifle. Despite the 1 mana increase, it can't be countered itself (well, barring a Lunar Force or something) and prevents their combo from continuing that turn (giving some degree of time to disable the combo). I often see people survive a Stifle (continue to combo-kill with Stifle on the stack) but Trickbind destroys a combo utterly (much like Krosan Grip against the right combo). Or you could play both, I suppose.

(On the other hand, it's harder to T1 Trickbind a fetchland, heh. Not the best play, but dear god it's fun to watch people's expression.)

August 27, 2016 1:51 a.m.

IQuarent says... #19

I agree with Trickbind being the more effective answer to ability-based combos. Not as efficient as one blue mana, but I feel the effectiveness to efficiently is a more than adequate to consider the trade out.

Beyond that, I personally prefer Trickbind in most situations myself and find it to be much more reliable. Split Second is such an amazing keyword.

August 27, 2016 2:56 a.m.

@Emzed: Gemstone Caverns is interesting, but I find that the mana base is consistent and fast enough that I don't need to play tons of disadvantageous fixing like it and Chrome Mox.

@Mishras_Twerkshop: I'd probably drop Oracle of Mul Daya for Fastbond, drop Arbor Elf, Skyshroud Claim, Mystical Teachings, and something else for Black Lotus and the moxen.

@Matheyru: Consecrated Sphinx is in a gray zone for me. It's very expensive, and I often wonder whether I'd be better off with some other draw card. Recurring Insight is equally expensive, but I suppose it's the same speed and at least draws cards in batches of (probably) five to seven rather than two.

@IQuarent: It's true that the only immediate game-ender is Blue Sun's Zenith. But that hasn't been an issue thus far. The "Preparing to combo" section of the primer explains how you determine which combo to use and how to set yourself up to use it. The "Using Tooth and Nail" section covers how to get Rune-Scarred Demon, which is then bounced to tutor your deck and continually recur Blue Sun's Zenith.

I run only Blue Sun's Zenith because of the recursion it offers, and because I feel that more draw X spells would make the deck clunkier. I'd probably experiment with other finishers (e.g., infinite turns to attack) first.

@Daedalus19876 & IQuarent: Trickbind vs Stifle is ultimately a preference pick, I feel. Both are very good cards, and it's a matter of which suits your meta and playstyle (e.g., conservative vs tactical) more.

August 27, 2016 1:12 p.m.

How often does Carpet of Flowers work for you? I would assume in a competitive environment, Blue is prevalent in most decks, but in more casual playgroups, how well do you think it would do?

August 28, 2016 5:18 p.m.

I haven't actually played the deck since it was added for testing. In theory, though, it would be worth running full-time. If nothing else, you're likely to get at least one mana off of it, so it'll pay for itself. It's meta dependent once you're outside of competitive, but it's still potent.

August 28, 2016 5:24 p.m.

True. That and a couple other cards are all I have left to grab. But I wanted to be sure before I bought a card that would end up sitting in the binder and not the deck.

August 28, 2016 5:31 p.m.

Ishio says... #24

To piggy back off Epochalyptik on Carpet of Flowers, I run it in my deck here, and have found myself with at least 5 - 6 counters on it by the time I win out. Which really helps.

Since I've adjusted my deck more closely to Epochalyptik's, I find myself winning out with 1 - 3 life.

Epochalyptik: Question, how often, when you play this deck, do you find yourself relying on Damia? Most of the time when I'm playing, my hand is shaped enough to go for the win, or my hand has ~5 cards, but I have Library out, the Top, where I don't need her in play (not to mention her copied vs a shakashima deck that's in my meta).

August 29, 2016 12:23 a.m.

Hjaltrohir says... #25

What would you usually fetch with Intuition?

August 30, 2016 9:36 a.m.

Necrotize says... #26

I can't speak for Epoch, but Intuition in general either gets 3 cards that all perform a similar function(like say, 3 counterspells) so there's no good choice, or they get 3 cards that interact with each other in a way that guarantees you get what you want eventually. Something like Crucible of Worlds, Volrath's Stronghold and the creature you really want. No matter what they give you, you'll always get the creature eventually. Another, potentially better, pile could be Eternal Witness, Yawgmoth's Will, and any card you want. Two pieces of recursion off Intuition guarantees that you can get the 3rd card so it can essentially be used to tutor for any card for any situation at instant speed.

August 30, 2016 10:38 a.m.

Hjaltrohir says... #27

Necrotize ah, thank you!

August 30, 2016 12:06 p.m.

@Ishio: It varies from game to game; your opponents, their decks, and their playstyles, as well as my own resources, impact when (or if) I cast Damia in a given game. It's unfortunately kind of unscientific.

In slower, more stable games, I've tended to find that Damia isn't as necessary because I can get cheaper and more reliable (read: not as easily killed) draw from other sources. In more explosive games, where I have an advantage and want to maintain it, I'll typically push Damia as an "answer or lose" ultimatum to the rest of the table. If it sticks and I'm able to draw 3-5 cards to replace what resources I invested in early ramp and control, then I'll probably win.

@Hjaltrohir: Basically what Necrotize said. The joke about Intuition is that it's exactly that: you're best off just relying on your intuition. Read your opponents' playstyles throughout the game, choose an opponent you think you can manipulate (or that you'll promise to kill last), and offer a stacked selection of cards. The idea is to make it not so much a choice of whether you get a specific effect, but a choice of when you get that effect.

For example, finding Yawgmoth's Will, Eternal Witness, and a card you actually want is a good choice because your opponent can't really get out of you eventually getting access to that third card.

Finding Force of Will, Misdirection, and Pact of Negation is also effective.

August 30, 2016 6:21 p.m.

Added a new section to the primer: Tutoring (under The Strategy).

Anybody think of anything else I should add to the primer?

August 30, 2016 7:42 p.m.

Matheyru says... #30

How do you deal with stax? I recently was completely blown out by a turn 2 Winter Orb against a Teferi, Temporal Archmage player.

August 30, 2016 8:31 p.m.

With the amount of cheap 1 and 2 drop tutors there are, you can search for a Nature's Claim to deal with Winter Orb without much drawback. Or tutor for whatever you need to handle what's slowing you down.

August 30, 2016 8:55 p.m.

Your thoughts on the newly spoiled Gonti, Lord of Luxury?

It can be another backup wincon along the lines of Venser, Shaper Savant, by exiling all opponents' libraries. It's not too mana expensive, and it's ability can mess up opponents who are manipulating what they're drawing or are hoping for a certain card.

September 2, 2016 5:51 p.m.

enpc says... #33

Raging_Squiggle: Generally with a deck like this there's not really much point adding more cards that are a backup win condition only once you've achieved infinite mana, as that's the hardest part of setting up you win condition.

Effectively having Grim Tutor in hand has the same outcome as you can dig for your other finisher. Or using Reality Shift repeatedly with the help of Eternal Witness lets you exile your opponents' libraries. However, both of these cards provide much more use outside of being a combo finisher.

September 2, 2016 6:52 p.m.

Emzed says... #34

It is a possible win con, but not very good outside of that. Quite often, it will essentially be a 4cmc Sea Gate Oracle that can't hit lands and can't find your combo pieces.

September 2, 2016 6:53 p.m.

maddoxmtg says... #35

any particular reason for the lack of Damia's #1 counterspell in Forbid?

September 5, 2016 10:55 p.m.

From the Omission page in the description:

This card is passable in casual and semicompetitive Damia decks, and it's often suggested on the basis that the two discarded cards can be replenished by Damia's draw ability, but the bottom line is that the card is prohibitively expensive to cast and impossibly expensive to buy back. It's not ideal to pay mana symbol 1mana symbol umana symbol u and discard two cards to get a returning counterspell.

September 5, 2016 11:11 p.m.

Matheyru says... #37

I was recently looking at /r/cEDH, I and came across a Leovold DD deck, I know in the primer that you said that this deck in particular does not do well against fast combo or control decks. However, what deck could compete with a consistent turn 3-4 lock followed by DD?Leovold, Emissary of Trest Doomsday

September 8, 2016 11:20 a.m.

klone13 says... #38

Just curious, will you mention Leovold, Emissary of Trest in the why Damia section?

September 11, 2016 11:03 a.m.

Silverf1sh says... #39

Gemstone Mine

now obviously in this optimized list you have the duals, the fetches, etc. My question is, if you're building on a budget, or with less colors (I've brought up my Zegana that combos out the same way here a few times) would the drawback of this card hurt horribly over time, or would the possibility of more consistent early-mid fixing be worth it?

September 15, 2016 9:17 p.m.

BiggestJohn says... #40

I decided to build this deck (cause deep down I am degenerate scumbag), I can say that having palyed with Reverent Silence... It is superb. That card is so crazy good. Only enchantments this deck runs are cheap and more than likely you will only have like 1 out. If this kills even 2 enchantments of your opponents (and trust me it usually nets like 5 of my opponents cards). This card is such insane card advantage, I recommend finding a spot for it.

September 16, 2016 9:38 p.m.

Cirridian says... #41

Hey Epoch,

In Leyline's spot I've been trying out Ad Nauseum to see if it has a place in this slot. Personally, I've been loving it.

Pros: instant speed, 5 cmc, cards given up front, cards staying in hand for a turn (if casted on other's turn), possibility of hitting reliquary tower. Always relevant at all stages of the game.

Con: Awkward cmc costs and aggressive life loss. Conflicts with other life loss (tutors and land base) and so have to be more conservative.

An advantage this deck has over other Ad Nauseum decks is the high density of lands and the ability to play extra lands. I found that tutoring and casting AN almost guaranteed a win, as Ad Nauseum will made your next turn explosive, protected, and gave you the tools you need to combo out and win.

The card is powerful on its own and have some synergies with the deck. Boseiju synergy, tutorable drawpower options to mystical tutor/mystical teachings, synergy with extra land drops, and reliquary tower. It can also be used to try and hit counterspells when you need to react to the spell, as you have a reasonable chance to find a free counterspell and are guaranteed to find cheap counterspells. Minor synergy with oracle of mull daya.

September 21, 2016 1:55 a.m.

ninomiya says... #42

how about the new general leovold emissary of trest ? compare to Damia ?

September 21, 2016 3:44 a.m.

Epochalpytic, what are your thoughts on Long-Term Plans for the deck, seems like a good tutor for damia seeing as you will most likely draw the card during your upkeep while damia is out anyways.

September 24, 2016 12:57 a.m.

Emzed says... #44

Grim Tutor is much better than Long-Term Plans, but didn't make the cut either.

September 24, 2016 7:23 a.m.

BiggestJohn says... #45

being instant and only requiring one colored symbol makes a big difference with Long-Term Plans and Grim Tutor

September 24, 2016 2:03 p.m.

NarejED says... #46

Psst, you should upgrade to Leovold, Emissary of Trest, he's significantly better than Damia as a commander thanks to his much lower cost and generally more oppressive abilities. He doesn't even require much building around-- just a handful of additional wheel effects and Puzzlebox for relative optimization.

September 24, 2016 3:24 p.m.

enpc says... #47

BiggestJohn: Long-Term Plans is significantly worse without Damia on the field though.

September 24, 2016 6:04 p.m.

@Matheyru: Generally, you want to accelerate enough in the early game that you can afford to counter or remove the key stax cards before they hit you too hard. If you can't preempt or quickly respond to stax engines, you don't really have a great chance of winning the game due to the advantage loss.

For your lock and DD question, your best chance is really to either play heavy control early and prevent the strategy from launching or to combo out before it becomes an issue. Competitive pods with fast, powerful decks inevitably turn into a few turns of Mexican standoff followed by a game-ending series of events.

@Raging_Squiggle: I generally dislike playing "wincons" that don't actually win the game when used. Venser, Shaper Savant gets away with it because it's a good utility card as well, but Gonti, Lord of Luxury isn't really something I'd want to play for the effect. That's also why Villainous Wealth isn't in the deck.

@maddoxmtg: The primer has a section dedicated to intentional omissions; you can find a better answer there. But to briefly address your point, Forbid is not good in competitive. It's expensive to start, and you don't want to rely on an even more expensive card to already be out to make it average.

@klone13 & ninomiya & NarejED: I haven't fully evaluated Leovold, Emissary of Trest yet. I have a feeling you could pretty effectively swap between Leovold and Damia depending on the meta.

@Silverf1sh: In a non-optimized version of the deck, it's worth considering. I don't include it because the mana base is already optimized, but if you couldn't afford to build the 3-3-9 foundation for the land base, then Gemstone Mine isn't a bad way to compensate. It lasts long enough for you to get some other mechanism in place to replace it after the third turn. As long as you need it to color fix and you're spending the mana productively, I wouldn't worry too much about the downside.

@BiggestJohn: I'll add it to the maybeboard. I certainly see the utility.

@Cirridian: I wouldn't list 5 CMC as a pro of any card. That's a lot of mana to tie up in a single spell, which is one of the reasons this deck's curve has gotten progressively lower as time goes on.

I also tend not to like "lose life equal to its mana cost" effects in this deck because so many of the key cards have higher mana costs (e.g., Tooth and Nail, Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator). While they're certainly fewer in number than the low-CMC cards, I remain apprehensive about Ad Nauseam and similar effects. I'm open to testing them, but I also haven't played in a while.

@huntersmith878: Long-Term Plans is a very common card in casual and semi-competitive Damia decks, but I don't include it here because I dislike depending on Damia to gain access to something. If I don't have Damia out, I'm limited in how many cards I draw per turn, so I can't always guarantee that I'll get to the tutored card before I need to shuffle due to a fetch or something else. The other part of it is the mana cost. I'm moving toward cheaper tutors in order to maximize resource availability for other cards.

September 25, 2016 3:34 p.m.

Ishio says... #49

So, I've slowly began expanding my deck to make it more consistent, and so far it usually is, but I think I'm at the point where I should be swapping/upgrading cards.

Now my question to you Epochalyptik is should I start with lands or another card set?

Here's my deck.

September 26, 2016 11:13 a.m.

@Ishio: In your case, it depends. The land base probably makes the single biggest difference out of any of the deck's "food groups," but it's also the most expensive to optimize. I would at least consider Drowned Catacomb and Hinterland Harbor as well as some multi-lands like Reflecting Pool.

Your deck does run a number of expensive, "suboptimal" creatures, but part of that may be due to preference. I choose not to run cards like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, for example.

September 26, 2016 5:36 p.m.

Ishio says... #51

@ Epochalyptik: I forgot I didn't have those lands in there! For less than $10 average, they should be in there. Are there any lands I am currently running that I shouldn't be? And, is my land base decent enough with those two duals and a multi-land enough to look into other cards?

You're right finances are a huge thing to an extent, so ABU lands are kind of out.

I've been on the fence about Mikaeus/Glen Elendra and wanting to swap them out for something but unsure really what to. I guess the biggest things would be to get Green Sun's in there and Yaw or Azusa.

September 26, 2016 6:01 p.m.

enpc says... #52

Ishio: if Mikaeus is just in there for Glen Elendra, why don't you just run Sage of Fables? it's a bucket load cheaper and provides some utility with other wizards.

September 26, 2016 7:08 p.m.

Ishio says... #53

enpc: I never knew this existed. Thank you. I will replace Mikeaus for that.

September 26, 2016 7:49 p.m.

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Compare to inventory
Date added 4 years
Last updated 4 weeks
Exclude colors WR
Legality

This deck is Commander / EDH legal.

Cards 100
Avg. CMC 2.44
Tokens 1/1 Spirit, 1/1 Bird
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Top rank #2 on 2012-08-19
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Revision 56 (1 month ago)

+1 Reality Shift maybe
-1 Gitaxian Probe maybe

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