|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|2012 Core Set (M12)||Uncommon|
|2011 Core Set (M11)||Uncommon|
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Spells you control can't be countered by blue or black spells this turn, and creatures you control can't be the target of blue or black spells this turn.
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Autumn's Veil Discussion
1 week ago
Ok so this is my first time on commenting about a Devoted Druid deck but I feel like now I've seen it be used a bit I know what I'm talking about. So 4 of each Vizier of Remedies and Devoted Druid is correct and Quillspike is a great card for redundancy so I recommend putting in 2 copies instead of 3. Groundbreaker is a great inclusion because it's the green version of Ball Lightning. Weird Harvest is a fine card but I personally prefer Uncage the Menagerie, because x=2 searches out you combo pieces and x=1 searches out Mistcutter Hydra. Archetype of Endurance is great, good inclusion. Commune with Nature is great but if you want the turn 3 win I prefer Utopia Sprawl, because this allows you to keep a hand of just one forest (unless someone at your locals plays land destruction). Apostle's Blessing Is a great inclusion for protecting you combo pieces. Grapple with the Past is an interesting inclusion but I like it because it brings back your combo pieces. Harmonize is a great card as a 2 of because it's some redundancy to get to your big stuff. You can now probably put in 2 Autumn's Veil and you will be completely set. I'd also recommend playing some Canopy Vista in the mana base to consistently land green and white on turn 3.
1 month ago
sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.
You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.
I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.
I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.
Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.
Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.
And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.
Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.
As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.
I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.
I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.
When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.
As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).
1 month ago
This looks like a very solid list! Carpet of Flowers could be good for getting Sissay out early and scales well as the game goes on, and in competitive pods it's unlikely that nobody is playing blue. Autumn's Veil seems like another option if you want more ways to fight against counterspells.
1 month ago
Been a while since I commented. I'll try to respond primarily to those points that others haven't already addressed.
Thought-Knot Seer is expensive to cast and doesn't really perform a vital function in this deck, given that its abilities don't have a high impact.
Stax is a challenge. This deck does have the means to outpace some stax decks by ramping extremely aggressively, but sacrifice engines in particular are effective at keeping utility creatures from having a great deal of impact. I haven't played in several years (apart from the casual 60-card game here or there), so I'm not really qualified anymore to assess how this deck competes with more modern Tier 1-Tier 2 stax decks.
This deck would rather not play Zendikar Resurgent or Mana Reflection because they need to be hard cast and are more difficult to find. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger would be a stronger choice in that respect (because it's Tooth and Nailable), but even then it hasn't made the cut. I leave that to players' discretion, though. Some people may find that the redundancy is important in their meta.
As a combo deck, this deck can normally outpace most noncombo aggro decks. Certain commander damage decks can pose a threat if unanswered. And don't forget that you can chump block with utility creatures if you have to. Surviving in a difficult position is preferable to being out of the game entirely.
I do feel that way about Consecrated Sphinx from time to time. Unfortunately, having not played in a true competitive multiplayer environment in a long time, I can't say with certainty whether it needs to be replaced. The mana cost is the biggest downside, but it's a powerful backup draw engine that's much less risky than Damia herself.
Stroke of Genius is serviceable, and there are ways to recur cards from the graveyard just as there are ways to get them back from the library. I use Blue Sun's Zenith because mana is not an issue by the combo turn and the win con is safer (from hate effects) in the library than in the yard.
Timetwister is an interesting choice, and certainly something that becomes more potent as this deck becomes faster. I would test it.
Arbor Elf ramps, but Crop Rotation does not. I'm not sure if they're comparable in terms of slot consumption. In some metas, the land tutor may be more important because there may be a greater dependence on cards like Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
I don't recommend playing Demonic Consultation unless you're playing Laboratory Maniac, and I don't really think this deck wants to play either (although it could be built in such a way that they're more viable). Demonic Consultation presents the issue of exiling potentially necessary win conditions in order to find a combo piece, and it's never really completely safe to use. Similarly, Tainted Pact isn't in the deck (and is actually covered in the "Omissions" section). I don't think there are many cases where I'd so desperately need a single card that I could risk potentially exiling every other card for it.
It's true that Crucible of Worlds is a good card, but every card in this deck is a good card. Crucible of Worlds doesn't really provide necessary functionality to this deck, though, so I wouldn't call it one of the best cards and similarly wouldn't be able to justify increasing its redundancy at the expense of some other functionality.
Lots of feedback there. I'll try to respond to as much as I have space for.
Rising Waters is an issue because this deck really wants to maximize its mana availability.
Future Sight was in a much earlier version of the deck, but was cut because the cost outweighed the value. Some people may prefer to run it, but I don't.
Pendrell Mists is a good stax card, but this isn't a stax deck. I'd rather keep my utility creatures at the risk of letting other people keep theirs.
Autumn's Veil has some potential. I've never really experimented with it in the 99, though.
Night's Whisper is not as preferable as a draw engine, in my opinion.
Notion Thief could be good in some cases, and I haven't actually tested it in the deck, but there weren't very many times where I think I would have (and would prefer to spend) the mana on it given its inconsistency from game to game.
Brainstorm was in an earlier version of the deck, and it could still justifiably be run given all of the fetch lands, but I prefer to spend the slot on other cards.
Baleful Strix doesn't really do enough to justify spending the mana.
Trinket Mage is a more expensive and more limited tutor than those already in the deck.
Arcane Denial is in the deck because it's a hard counter for , which I'll gladly take in the final turn.
Three Visits and Nature's Lore are important ramp cards and cannot be cut. Skyshroud Claim could potentially be cut on a cost basis, but it's very powerful and pays for half of its own cost on resolution.
Mindslaver is not something this deck needs. I don't really want to spend to control someone's turn if I could spend much less to get myself closer to actually winning. It's not good without a recursion combo or when facing multiple opponents.
Academy Ruins could be played, but I don't really need to recur any of the artifacts in this deck as much as I need access to on-color mana.
Omniscience is not necessary. My primary win con is an spell, which doesn't benefit at all from Omniscience and does benefit from an infinite mana combo (the latter of which enables just as many other cards as the former).
1 month ago
From what I can tell, a simple Dissipate ruins your entire plan. Have you thought of any answers to cards such as these? I would definitely recommend Boseiju, Who Shelters All for those pesky counter spells. Autumn's Veil could also be quite good when you're ready to cast Primal Surge. I know it's an instant but counters are so prevalent in EDH that I feel like you need it. Maybe not! Just a suggestion!
1 month ago
Looking to complete my 4c Aluren deck, do you like FREE STUFF?. I need, in order of most to least important:
Additionally, I would be interested in trading for the following cards that I already have but would like another copy:
These are lower priority than the top.
Comment here or on my binder with interest! Thanks!