|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Rare|
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Destroy all nonbasic lands.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
1 week ago
Added thus far:
Mystic Remora: What else could I put for Draw in Enchantments?
Dovin, Grand Arbiter: Because the Planeswalker Deck Dovin WILL relace this anyway...
Forge of Heroes: I wish there is a Planeswalker Commander in 5 colors... & is usable in Superfriends. Only then will this return.
Mox Amber: Replaced w/ Chrome Mox.
Cascading Cataracts: It's better than that other land that produces all 5 colors at once, but what the heck, I'l cut it.
Vedalken Orrery: At least the Leyline has the benefit of the doubt...
/ Nahiri, the Harbinger: Rummaging, & Spot Removal via Exiling prevents any merit to remove.
/ Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast: WHY. Why does everyone oppose this guy? He makes tokens, has spot removal, & even can copy other artifacts, be it on the field, or your grave. 3 great abilities already. I'm keeping this.
? Sphinx's Revelation: This is crazy as card dray as it is... I ponder how to bust it.
? Dovin, Architect of the Law: Not even on this site, but he's known for Lifegain + Card draw; as his first ability; & his Ultimate doubles as a quasi-Silence. I really wouldn't cut him for anything. :/
? (Whatever card that protects Non-Basics): W/ so many cards using Nonbasics against them, be it Back to Basics or Ruination, I wonder what to do about this: Terra Eternal for Indestructible Lands? Mind Over Matter for multitap control? Even Turnabout?
I'll continue from here...
2 weeks ago
Seeing as you have 5 colours to play with you might as well run the best multicoloured cards:
Tutors: Buried Alive
Removal: Aura Shards, Bant Charm (amazingly versatile), Decimate (iffy but playing a 4-for-1 on your opponent feels really good), Swan Song, Sudden Spoiling, Toxic Deluge, Rakdos Charm, Chaos Warp, Cyclonic Rift, Shivan Harvest
2 weeks ago
You might also want to consider Ruination since you're running mostly basic lands it won't hurt you much and will likely, considerably set back your opponents.
Rahvin_dom on ZOa
1 month ago
It sounds like you want to:
- Slow down opponents' ability to cast spells, which forces opponents to keep cards in hand
- Force opponents to discard, limiting their options
- Use discard triggers to punish opponents
This sounds like it can work with Bolas. The risk I'd point out is with the discard punishers, specifically ones like Megrim and Liliana's Caress. They can be a little fragile - once the opponent no longer has any cards, you stop getting triggers. They're nice incidental damage and can add up, but you can't rely on them to actually close out the game. Bolas is also not ideally suited to the stax plan - he doesn't inherently break symmetry, so there are much better options for hard stax.
Wheels that discard are going to be excellent for you, getting a ton of discard triggers. Ignore wheels that shuffle and then draw without discarding.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur would be a pretty amazing, synergistic reanimation target. You should definitely run some reanimation effects if you plan to force opponents to discard - you can grab tasty targets from your own deck or theirs. Reanimate, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Dance of the Dead are a good start.
Back to Basics doesn;t stop you from using your own fetches (even budget slow-fetches) since you only use those once - they don;t need to untap. Blood Moon works, and it sets your nonbasics to one of your actual colors, but it also turns all your fetches into Mountains. Watch out for that.
I'd also look at Ruination. It's MLD...but it only blows up non-basic lands. It's exactly what you're doing with the enchantments, but with removal.
You already seem to know the mana rock drill from your Nekusar deck. You want to lean heavily on the mana rocks - all of the 2CMC signets/talismans/Fellwar Stone. Fellwar is going to get much less useful once you land Bloood Moon though. Star Compass is useful since you'll be loading heavily on basic lands. Coldsteel Heart is useful to plug a specific color hole. Obviously Sol Ring. You're going to be looking for color fixing more than anything, so Chromatic Lantern is worth the extra mana, and any Mox you can afford are worthwhile (except Mox Amber, that one's less useful).
You need land fetching. Grixis Panorama is normally not a recommendation, but it can find any of your three colors, not just two, and you're already basically excluding fetchable duals with the stax effects. Journeyer's Kite and Thaumatic Compass Flip, Armillary Sphere, Pilgrim's Eye, Skittering Surveyor, Solemn Simulacrum, Sword of the Animist, Wayfarer's Bauble are all at least playable. The ETB creatures are useful if you plan to abuse Nicol Bolas, the Ravager Flip's ETB effect - you can use blink effects and Panharmonicon to get extra triggers.
Blood Moon and Back to Basics are great, but they likely are not enough to consistently slow opponents enough to be wroth all of this workaround by themselves. Even Ruination doesn't add enough. Unfortunately Grixis doesn;t have any of the neat land-untap triggers like Nature's Will or Seedborn Muse - if it did, you could abuse things like Stasis and Rising Waters and Static Orb more easily. Still, you could support Winter Orb with enough mana rocks. Be sure to run good one-sided artifact removal like Vandalblast to keep opponents from using their own rocks.
And of course Omniscience can let you blow up all the artifacts and lands and still play what you want. You'll be running a ton of rocks anyway, which could ramp you into it fairly early.
The big thing, though, is how you want to win. Stax doesn;t work super well on its own - you need to be using stax to slow your opponents down so that you can pull off your own win condition. Do you have any ideas on how youd like to win, even if just generally? Combat, combos, punisher effects like Megrim, mill, etc?
1 month ago
1 month ago
1 month ago
I never claimed that perception didn't make it seem worse, however perception doesn't make it worse. Players who don't play around MLD might be screwed, if they don't sandbag unnecessary lands they are asking for it though.
This idea is a very simple one that many players, especially in EDH are familiar with, "overextending into a board wipe". Heard of it?
My points never stated that players should love MLD, they shouldn't, but they can't cope with things they outright ban, and you trying to support their idealistic world of no interaction is downright disgusting. If a player loses to something, they should either
A: Not get mad, because it was a loss out of luck.
B: Not get mad, learn something from it, perhaps play around it, change their playstyle.
C: Get mad, because the loss was unwarranted, and was predicated on collusion (players teaming up outside of the game), something outside of the game outside of collusion (an example is a player conceding when you stole a permanent of theirs, therefor depriving you of a resource you fairly gained), or something inside of the game that is broken for obvious reasons, such as a combo that is particularly degenerate due to game rules that do not work in the given format (many believe Felidar Sovereign falls under this category).
Which does land destruction fall under? No one has been able to convince me that C is the appropriate response, and a deck built around it is most likely much more consistent than A would have me believe.
This implies that B is the proper response.
If you think we should frown upon learning experiences, you know, like any interaction, win, or play in any game of magic, then you might as well not play, or is there something so integrally broken about the removal of lands that it in particular is the focus of contempt?
"MLD leaves many players bitter in a way that no other strategy does."
Leovold shutting off hands, GAAIV stax type decks, stax decks of nearly any kind, decks that use Blood Moon, Contamination, Back to Basics, Static Orb, Hall of Gemstone, Winter Orb, Stasis, Tangle Wire, and other cards of that vein, decks that abuse discard like Nath and any deck with Sadistic Hypnotist for that matter, any deck that takes advantage of infinite turns or particularly long turns that imply storm or another slow to watch, difficult to interact with once it is going off style deck.
Yes, many of these are frowned upon, yet Land Destruction is the target of much more hate. Why? Can you explain that to me?
Above was my argument to anyone like Shrazik who reads your BS, , I honestly didn't dislike you until the last paragraph.
Nope, not one bit, but at that point I was considering going off on you, however thought that anyone who read this would think I didn't have a rebuttal to your first 5 paragraphs. Those are above.
Here is a quote, sentence #2, paragraph #6, comment #26. Don't hand me BS like this anecdote again, as anyone with half-working eyes and a quarter-working brain can see that it won't work:
"Recently, a fairly competitive pod of 4 I was playing in lost to a Lord Windgrace deck that cast Silence + Armageddon + Splendid Reclamation on turn 6 - it was a brilliant play and the game was over in less than 10 minutes from that play."
Nice, a jund (Lord Windgrace's color identity of , , and ) deck that can run Armageddon and Silence. Also, nice that a combo that a third grader could see from miles away is considered "brilliant" in a moderately competitive table. BTW that combo takes 9 mana and seems like hot trash for even moderate cEDH IMO, specifically Splendid Reclamation, as Windgrace can do that effect himself.
Also, try not to claim that Ruination and Autumn's Veil are the cards at hand, or that he cycled Decree of Annihilation, or that Impending Disaster was the real effect, as all of those are extremely different and memorably so.
I almost could respect you.
Shrazik I hope your eyes glanced over the end, so you didn't see 's BS in the last paragraph that you quoted, however I will attempt to answer your questions anyway.
"Going a little off topic here but do you think that delves deeper into a more community based issue? One where players would ignore how wrong or right a strategy/playstyle might be in favor of their own perception of what should or shouldn't be played within their playgroup?"
This is the reason that I personally don't play casual EDH, it is competitive EDH, but less compassionate to new strategies, and is so toxic I just can't handle it.
The vast majority of formats, cEDH, Standard, Modern, Pauper, Legacy, Vintage, etc. are all more accepting than casual EDH, so I have just had to stop playing it. Almost every other MTG community is cool with land destruction, Ponza lists in modern are fun midrange strategies that blow up lands and want to go turn one Arbor Elf, turn two Utopia Sprawl and get 4 mana for some sick plays early on. It is a nice and hilarious deck.
Other times it has occurred in modern like in some newer Ramunap Excavator/Azusa, Lost but Seeking/Ghost Quarter lists with Collected Company in modern the decks have been cool but not oppressive, and though they can be rough matchups for some decks, they aren't ever called out to be banned or anything, and even in Vintage when Shops, a deck with some land destruction (Strip Mine, etc.) was a problem the issue was the turn one Lodestone Golem, not land destruction, and no one really minded or thought Wasteland should be restricted, but the Golem should.
As you can see, toxicity of casual EDH isn't much further, but is a problem for a lot of less toxic players who play EDH casually and want to bring a fun, janky Hokori, Dust Drinker to the table, but are banned from playgroups (anecdotal, and an example, not anyone I know, but I have heard of this situation).
Outside of land destruction, I think combo is pretty fair game as long as it doesn't do something unable to be interacted with. Like Flash Hulk turn two is cool, but Spell Pierce exists, so does Spell Snare, Swan Song, Containment Priest, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Leyline of the Void, Force of Will, etc.
1 month ago
Vman, sweet, short, and to the point. I would be unimpressed most of the time, but I am impressed now, as it apparently really difficult for most people to allow others to do as they want.
Flooremoji. I would beg to differ. I like when an opponent Ruination's my 5 color combo list helmed by the Najeela. I may lose, but I don't mind it, because it is the appropriate answer to the decks in my meta with 3+ colors most of the time. That player won after the Ruination, with twelve turns of lock pieces like Static Orb, Thorn of Amethyst and I think a Tangle Wire or Smokestack, I don't remember which.
Point is, though the other two players hated it, I respect the deck trying to win with Kiki-Jiki, a lackluster commander at a more competitive table. This was a nice play, and while it may slow a game, and not be fun for some players, the same is for losing.
I like getting thoughtseized, killed by infect, getting my lands destroyed, and I really love watching KCI go off (I actually don't like the old Faith's Reward lists, much more a fan of the newer Scrap Trawler decks... they are great!).
Why do I like these things? Well, to start if I lose to infect, it is either in EDH and is hilarious, or is in modern (legacy infect is a meme, not a deck BTW) and I should be holding removal or countermagic or some answer. Otherwise I go to sideboard and probably have the wins the next two games.
Thoughtseize is a skill intensive card that is a staple in Legacy and Modern and even some EDH lists. It is a powerhouse, but needs to be played properly against. In modern, I find that against the decks that play it, it turn one isn't much better than a Inquisition unless they are Death's Shadow. I don't play tron or anything with big cards too often, so I don't find that the two life loss is huge. Against my burn list, it isn't even that good.
Krark-Clan Ironworks decks are just amazing, all their little bobs and bits turning like a mad scientist. They are kind of hilarious, and you can just concede if you don't want to watch them. No one is stopping you, and as soon as they have cast like ~5 cards, they can't really fizzle often enough to matter. Sweet deck IMO. Played it myself for a while, after Scrap Trawler was released with Aether Revolt.