Counter target instant spell.
|Have (3)||NineNotesKnives , Qweksand ,|
|Want (3)||Matthorner1 , Virulent11 , Aurit|
Printings View all
|Mystery Booster (MYS1)||Common|
|Battle for Zendikar (BFZ)||Common|
|Return to Ravnica (RTR)||Common|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
1 month ago
Most of my experience with infect comes from playing simic, but I have played the mechanic in all 5 colors. In terms of power, green is the most effective color to play by a very VERY large margin. You get access to the best infect creature in Glistener Elf (along with the slower and safer option of Blight Mamba), you get trample sources to push through damage with Ichorclaw Myr such as Rancor, Predator's Strike, and Larger Than Life, you get protection bundled with buffs in the form of Vines of Vastwood, Ranger's Guile, and Blossoming Defense, and you get the largest pool of very strong power boosts in the form of Mutagenic Growth, Invigorate, Scale Up, Might of Old Krosa, Berserk, Become Immense, Groundswell, Phytoburst, Noble Hierarch, and Pendelhaven. Since infect is an all-or-nothing sort of archetype, even when running the less aggressive versions, the most important characteristics that you need are speed, protection, and evasion. Green offers two of those things in spades but can struggle with evasion. This is why blue is generally considered the next best color to run. You get the insane threat of Blighted Agent, unblockable buffs with Distortion Strike and Aqueous Form, and protection from spells via Spell Pierce, Dispel, Turn Aside, and the odd Spellskite. Black is the next best. Plague Stinger's flying isn't as good as the unblockable on a Blighted Agent but it's still very powerful evasion as illustrated by the ubiquity of Inkmoth Nexus in every non-budget infect list ever made. Black also nets useful control tools like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Fatal Push, Dismember, and Assassin's Trophy. White was considered the worst infect color for a very long time since its best option (Apostle's Blessing) can be used in any deck, but the recent introduction of Giver of Runes has breathed some life back into the color. Additionally, I've seen a lot of equipment lists popping up that use Colossus Hammer, Kor Duelist, Sigarda's Aid, and Kor Outfitter to see some success. Unfortunately, that leaves red as the current worst color to run in infect. It has some decent buffs but they pale in comparison to green's offerings. The result is that most red infect decks rely on gimmicks like using Razor Swine's first strike to wither enemy creatures, generating infinite mana to pump into an unblocked Ogre Menial, or putting Phyresis on something like a Spikeshot Elder to bypass combat altogether. Your instant tricks definitely fall in this category. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. If your meta is casual enough, red should still work and it will be much more interesting to play with / fun to play against than a more traditional deck. How competitive you want to be is always up to you.
To answer your specific questions, I would probably start by cutting a few creatures. Most lists run about 12 infect sources (and that's including a playset of Inkmoth Nexus). With Hand of the Praetors on your top end, running 16-20 isn't that unreasonable, at least as long as all of them are good. Infect creatures usually become "bad" when they cost more than 2. That's why I wouldn't usually recommend running Ichor Rats or Septic Rats. Both Necropede and Plague Myr are perfectly acceptable inclusions with very similar power levels. They'll rarely be better than Plague Stinger or Ichorclaw Myr but that's okay if you just want more guys to play. As for Vector Asp, it's honestly a pretty bad choice in most circumstances. While you usually won't need to activate it more than 2 or 3 times to win the game, that mana would be better spent elsewhere, and it doesn't even trigger the Hand. However, given the choice of it and a 3-drop, I'd probably take the snake, especially since it would be your only proactive play on turn 1 (barring the inclusion of Glistener Elf or Inkmoths). Better though would just be to run neither and invest in more buff spells to assist in combat and trigger Livewire Lash. I do like the idea of those spells having cycling in theory, but in practice, the mana needed to cycle can short you of the resources needed to close out the game. Plus, cycling spells tend to cost more to account for the added ability. Cycling lands on the other hand should be fine as long as they come in untapped, although it looks like that only describes Ash Barrens and Blasted Landscape. Just like with creatures, I wouldn't run any spells that cost more than 2 unless they can win you the game like Soul's Fire can. This will also allow you to run 20 lands or fewer, opening up even more slots for gas. I apologize if I'm repeating myself about the low-cost-high-speed thing but that is basically the reason the infect mechanic exists. If you prefer a slow and more controlling style, Rakdos wither built around Necroskitter is a fun option that has some overlap with infect.
1 month ago
From a competitive standpoint the deck is running so little interaction and protection as it stands that it won't ever be able to hold up in competitive settings.
You'll definitely want each of these pieces of interaction in a Kinnan helmed deck at a minimum:
As it stands that won't be quite enough pieces to consistently have the access to permission and protection elements to remain in a competitive position in most game states and these pieces are worth running much of the time:
xNegate xDelay xInto the Roil/2cmc bounce spells (UG has very limited access to tools that can remove hate pieces from the board that prevent a win like Grafdigger's Cage, Notion Thief, or Narset, Parter of Veils.) xBeast Within
As an additional note about competitive Kinnan builds, you can lose the Dramatic Scepter stuff entirely. There's no need in a Kinnan deck. The most effective and efficient method of generating the infinite combo needed to win is any dork that can produce U and G mana combined with Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura. Basalt Monolith is worth running in Kinnan decks because it generates infinite colorless with just Kinnan out on the field also, so you can usually get a couple of Kinnan activations off to dig for Thrasios. For the mana dork complement it's best to stick with BoP, all the 1 cmc tap for G elf dorks, and then a handful of 2 cmc "tap for any color" dorks. The most effective back up infinite mana engines for a Kinnan deck are typically Simic Ragworm or Horseshoe Crab paired with Paradise Mantle and the Monolith (which is often why the deck runs Staff of Domination as an additional outlet that's easy to tutor for in the colors) rather than Dramatic Scepter combo as the Scepter combo relies on density of dorks and rocks to be engaged and this can be more difficult than a less card intensive engine (Crab, Mantle, Kinnan is 3 cards with one from the command zone compared to Kinnan, Dramatic Reversal, Isochron Scepter, 2 mana rocks/dorks at 5 cards to engage) and thus less reliable for the game play patterns Kinnan wants to ideally play from. Shapers of Nature and Thrasios, Triton Hero are the standard outlets that will eventually be found from Kinnan activations that allow you to draw the whole deck. From there winning is easy, so stick to win conditions that are more live than things like Blue Sun's Zenith and run Thassa's Oracle plus a looping mechanism (such as Narset's Reversal and Timetwister or Elixir of Immortality) to use the interaction pieces like Swan Song and Pongify as the win conditions (this helps to avoid other issues too, like not being able to win with Oracle due to Angel's Grace, etc, in addition to improving card slot efficiency). Green Sun's Zenith and Drift of Phantasms are generally considered must runs as tutor options for competitive Kinnan lists, but a good number of quality tutor options are available to provide consistency. Incubation Druid+Vigean Graftmage is somewhat popular as another back up 3 card game winning infinite combo line.
1 month ago
1 month ago
Sounds like a fairly standard Consultation line, or maybe a Doomsday set up.
There are a number of ways to punish this line of play that are very effective.
Angel's Grace will prevent him from winning and he won't be able to interact with Angel's Grace when it's cast. This will, at a minimum, give your group a turn cycle to come up with an answer to his board state, or result in him killing himself outright if he used Thassa's Oracle.
Trickbind works similarly, it's got split second so it can't be interacted with on the stack, and it counters the triggered ability of Oracle or the activated ability of Jace, but doesn't really affect Lab Man. Again, with Oracle he just dies on his next turn, but with Jace this option buys the table a turn cycle to find a way to kill the Jace.
Dispel is a good way to interact with both of the Forbidden Tutors (Demonic Consultation and Tainted Pact). Many other counterspells are also excellent in this role. The key is being prepared for him to attempt his line of play and then busting out the countermagic you were saving for that situation.
Spell Snare hits both Oracle and Tainted Pact.
Geier Reach Sanitarium can be used to force him to draw with an Oracle etb trigger on the stack, but is less useful against Lab Man and Jace. Any spell that can force him to draw at instant speed while an Oracle trigger is on the stack will cause him to lose as well.
Any form of instant speed creature removal is an excellent way to answer Lab Man while he has a draw trigger on the stack that would draw on his empty library and win the game. Lab Man will die, he will draw, then he will die.
Meddling Mage and other cards that prevent him from playing important pieces of his line of play are also good solutions but can be vulnerable to removal.
2 months ago
Manabase isn't properly built, and Grapeshot is huge over Banefire, but the deck's archetype has legs. The issue is this deck was good in Pioneer and Modern because answers to creatures were big and this deck ran none, causing the opponent's interaction to be useless.
In this format Dispel, Miscast, etc. are everywhere, and resolving the big spells this deck needs just isn't easy. Veil of Summer is a must-run for this, and this deck not seeing it makes this not a Tier 1 list by far.
2 months ago
Hex Parasite (kills walkers)
2 months ago
2 months ago
Value cards worth exploring: - Creatures: Coiling Oracle, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Ramunap Excavator, Wayward Swordtooth, Thrasios, Triton Hero - Sorceries: Eldritch Evolution, Finale of Devastation, Green Sun's Zenith, Meltdown, Life from the Loam, Merchant Scroll, Nature's Lore, Farseek, Rolling Earthquake, Subterranean Tremors - Instants: Beast Within, Crop Rotation, Dispel, Fierce Guardianship, Force of Vigor, Illusionist's Stratagem, Pact of Negation, Reality Shift - Artifacts: Null Rod - Enchantments: Exploration - Lands: Sunscorched Desert. Strip Mine, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, Mystic Sanctuary, Tolaria West,