Counter target spell. At the beginning of your next main phase, gain an amount of equal to that spell's converted mana cost.
|Want (8)||vidarski , PyreCracker , urzahh , arthur12345 , ImGefest , jobba , habbadash , MarkTaylorTSax|
Printings View all
|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Masters Edition III (ME3)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Mana Drain occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.09%
GU (Simic): 0.6%
WUB (Esper): 0.71%
UBR (Grixis): 0.68%
BUG (Sultai): 0.54%
Mana Drain Discussion
2 days ago
Hey there! I like the list overall. The theme of denying mana from your opponents seems pretty interesting. The main thing I would take a look at is adding some extra control into the deck in order to make sure Zur can get to the battlefield. I would say, with your mana curve and ramp package you could easily cut 4 lands and still remain relativity safe. I think you could also part with some of the less effective / protection enchantments (like Steel of the Godhead, Triclopean Sight, Empyrial Armor, and maybe one of the shroud affects) in order to, again, add more instant speed protection and control. I think the enchantments are strong, but the fact that Zur can tutor out the best ones consistently means that redundancy isn't as important as long as you can reliably cast Zur and keep him around.
In terms of which counterspells I suggest, I would focus on low CMC, non creature counterspells. Counterspells like Negate or Dispel are easy to cast and can be used efficiently to protect Zur against opposing counterspells and instant speed removal. The higher cost counterspells (In terms of monetary cost) are also very strong as well, but that's more dependent on budget. Flusterstorm, Force of Will, Force of Negation, Mana Drain, and Pact of Negation are all fantastic if you can afford them, but spells like Mystical Dispute, Narset's Reversal, and just regular old Counterspell can get you there as well on a budget.
5 days ago
Yarok - You didn't link your deck. You can do it like this:
Also, I tried searching for it on the site and it didn't show up :\
[[deck:The Song of Phyresis]]
Wicker - You can link cards like this:
As for my thoughts on each card? I'll try and keep my tangents short lol.
Disallow: is cool, but not very good in a Sliver deck because it belongs in a Baral, Chief of Compliance deck. I mean, not only does it feature him in the card art, it actually lowers the CMC to , making the card a strictly better counterspell. I slotted in Mana Drain, but if cost is an issue and you want a good to decent counterspell that is not Counterspell i'd consider Forbid, Mana Leak, Arcane Denial, Hinder, Rewind, or Dissipate.
Kindred Summons: Cool. But can be a massive dude of a card if you dont have any topdeck manipulation ala Scroll Rack, Mirri's Guile, or Sensei's Divining Top. Notable combinations with this card would be Worldly Tutor or Vampiric Tutor.
Mystical Tutor: If your deck relies heavily on interaction/instant speed removal then this wouldn't be bad inclusion. The only issue is that MT won't be doing much outside of getting you some potential interaction, meaning that you'll be holding up mana you could be using to better establish your boardstate.
Coat of Arms / Door of Destinies / Vanquisher's Banner: Depends on how you want to build your deck - if you want to rely primarily on combat damage being your wincon then any of the previously mentioned are worth it. I'd run all three in addition to Shared Animosity, Magma Sliver and Sliver Legion.
Heartstone: Be careful with this one. It's effect applies to your opponents' creatures as well. I'd never include this because I like to be shrewd and not unknowingly enable my opponents to win. If you insist on including this you better be sure you're going to win on the turn you play it.
Distant Melody: I generally don't like spells that are contingent on how many creatures I have in play, because it's only good under very specific conditions that can be influenced by opponents. I'd go with Dormant Sliver or Synapse Sliver.
Cryptolith Rite: Is an okay card. I apply the same logic to this card as I would Distant Melody. This card is only as good as the number of creatures you have in play, which can be influenced by opponents. If someone boardwipes and this card is in hand it's literally a dead card.
Unnatural Selection: A fun card that used to be in this deck. I eventually cut it because it was banned in my local LGS which was hosting an EDH league. It obviously has great synergy with Sliver Overlord - but nothing else. The card is pretty niche - but it's fun. If you want to go for a more casual build with Sliver Overlord at the helm, then i'd run this.
5 days ago
1 week ago
Yo philkillpro appreciate your insight.
This deck is built towards cEDH match ups, yes it does mainly require my commander to win because Nivvie himself is a two card combo with any of the Curiosity effects. It is supposed to be slow, we are a control combo deck, we are not rushing to win asap, it's built to out tempo and control the boardstate.
In regards to Mystic Confluence it comes in and out of the deck, the same can be said for Cryptic Command, Dig Through Time, and Treasure Cruise. It all depends on my current meta and how much it interacts with the game. Yes having triple pips on blue and red in the casting cost of the commander is a downside however Nivvie negates it by not being able to be countered as well as netting at least one card draw before anything happens to Niv. I also would like to think that I do have enough sources for mana as I have 10 extra ways of producing color mana aside from my lands. In the part of also for Mana Drain and Sol Ring, they are damn good cards. It's not used for casting Nivvie faster as I mentioned earlier above, it's to out tempo your opponents. Not to mention there are certain tricks you can do like for example using Frantic Search with the excess colorless mana to untap your lands to accelerate into Nivvie faster.
As to Wayfarer's Bauble, Spell Swindle, and Lightning Greaves. The latter is a maybe, you don't want to tap out in a flash hulk meta but it does ramp so I'll take it into consideration. Spell Swindle is too slow and chances are Swindle itself will get countered, free cast spells are your best bet. For the former, our combo itself relies on having enchanted Nivvie with a Curiosity effect, with the low creature count we have, chances are there is no other creatures to equip when we decide to enchant Nivvie making it no bueno to give Nivvie Shroud.
For Mizzix it does no good in this current build and the casting cost is too high. Thanks again for your insight~
2 weeks ago
Sorry it's been a minute but finally getting around to physically upgrading this deck.
I appreciate all of your imput and please don't think it's gone unnoted Here is the list I currently have for replacements
X - Finale of Promise - Idk what to sub...
X - Past in Flames
I know you've spent a lot of time in your previous suggestions, and I really appreciate the effort man Honestly. Would you mind taking a look at what I've come up with and see if there's any room for the X's?
About to put an order in for an upgrade on this. Kessy is going to be my first cEDH deck I wanna upgrade.
on EDH vs cEDH
3 weeks ago
triproberts12 What rulings exactly make them different formats? We are using literally the same rules and deckbuilding constraints, and as far as I know those are the only defining features of a format. Is a tier 1 standard deck a different format to little timmy's first jank standard deck because the tier one is much more consistent? With certain cards having less utility at different levels that would make Mana Drain a casual card, right? Because it is gonna get you the most mana against a battlecruiser meta.
The very first sentence of the philosophy of commander is "Commander is for fun." For some, fun is turning a Shivan Dragon sideways and pumping it up as much as humanly or draconically possible. For others it is casting Necromancy on top of someone's Flash to reanimate somebody else's Aven Mindcensor and make them unable to hulk for the win. Fun is subjective and that is why we communicate before the game what we are playing and how powerful we think it is. Both EDH and cEDH are the commander format.
3 weeks ago
Sorry so late.
Delay's pretty fine. It's a 2 CMC counterspell which we aren't quite as taxed into running since we can afford to be ultra-efficient with slim countermagic and interaction (Summer + Silence is stupid) and abuse stuff like Force of Negation (yuck).
However, if you want to run Delay, it's alright, it's a fine card. Our thinking was since the deck doesn't require reaching into that realm too deeply, we picked the best 2: Mana Drain and Dovin's Veto, or at least ones with a really high powerlevel.
Crazy to think Oracle Hulk now has such good quality cards in it (thanks 2019 WotC) that Delay is just "okay."
3 weeks ago
Your very top tier auto-include for lists is going to look like
- Force of Will "free"
- Pact of Negation "free"
- Swan Song cheap to cast and wide in restrictions
- Mana Drain color heavy but ramps the following turn
- Mental Misstep "free"
- Delay not color heavy and hits any spell, delaying for 3 turns is the same as solving it in very fast competitive EDH
Your situational includes are going to look like
- Force of Negation This can't protect your own combos, so it isn't wanted in every list. This is ran in QUITE A FEW lists though, always worth a consider.
- Counterspell Usually seen in mono or dual color decks as the cost can be hard in some 4 or 5 color shells
- Dispel Sometimes cut for a more general counter
- Muddle the Mixture Limited in scope and color heavy but this is more often slotted as a hard-to-counter tutor with a counterspell as icing on the top
- Narset's Reversal this card is pretty nice. While it does see a lot of play, it definitely isn't an autoinclude yet by any means.
- Spell Pierce Before you mock this card, consider how well it catches ultra fast mana rocks and tutors. Noncreature is very wide, and it stops Sol Ring Mana Crypt Mox Diamond Mox Opal Chrome Mox Mox Amber Mana Vault Vampiric Tutor Imperial Seal Mystical Tutor Worldly Tutor Gamble Dark Ritual and SO MUCH MORE. Even for a tempo card, you're still going to catch weird stuff like someone's Rhystic Study because they tapped out to pay for it. Its very strong against blistering fast combo decks, which is why it sees competitive play.
Other blue stuff is usually just too expensive. Paying over 2 mana for a counterspell just doesn't cut it when there are so many threats for so cheap. Don't pay more than 2 for a counterspell unless it does something wild on top. Counterspells with fewer restrictions on what it can counter are going to be better.
This is where it gets saucy boys
- Red Elemental Blast Pyroblast are VERY good. In a pod, there is almost definitely blue at the table. Every single red deck can slot these for commander without fear. Do note that REB works against any spell that includes blue (multicolor), while pyro only works against spells that are ONLY blue (monocolor).
- Fork Reverberate (Twincast) these allow you to copy a counterspell to create a counterspell. More access for red to counterspells. They also conveniently work very well against tutors, ramp, big draw spells, and extra turn spells.
- Guttural Response Weird hybrid color and somewhat restricted but still a good include in most RG decks.
- Burnout a bit worse then the elemental blasts as it costs 2 mana and it is limited. The cantrip is nice though
- Mana Tithe not that good in EDH but give it a whirl I guess
- Lapse of Certainty costing 3 hurts, but this is more a tempo card than anything.
- Dash Hopes Don't play this card in EDH lol
- Withering Boon on the chunkier end at 2 CMC, but in a color that doesn't get much of this. The 3 life and the restriction hurt, but definitely EDH playable. Every deck runs a commander, 99% of which are creatures
- Imp's Mischief can counter a spell by having it target Mischief, as can Misdirection Shunt Swerve and Ricochet Trap.
- Veil of Summer 1 mana green Cryptic Command
- Autumn's Veil Counterspell + silence against UB
- Bind I bet you didn't even know this card existed. Cantrips. GOOD IN THE YISAN MIRROR MATCH?
- Avoid Fate Weird protection oriented counterspell
- Nether Void Mostly ran in stax builds, brutal lockout card
- Planar Chaos One of my new favorite cards. Brutal with recursion like Hall of Heliod's Generosity. Play when you're ahead
- Deathgrip Lifeforce These are based if you have any method of color shifting. Realistically, you could run Lifeforce in Momir Hackball. These cards can cause scoops on casual tables lol.
- Vexing Shusher can render counterspells useless. Similarly, Dosan the Falling Leaf Grand Abolisher Prowling Serpopard Gaea's Herald can all protect against counterspells. Far more marginal but still worthwhile are Hall of Gemstone and Ritual of Subdual for turning off counterspells for opponents.