|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition||Common|
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|Have (11)||SirFabius , bakeraj4 , jrschnoebelen , , mtgmanatee , maR2307 , saj0219 , pokemate0 , , Sparky41 , cryptoplasm|
Mystical Teachings Discussion
1 week ago
Torment of Hailfire needs around 20 mana to start REALLY putting the screws to people (this is also assuming no one is shitting out tokens and just laughs at you demanding they sac 18 of them). If you have 20 mana in this deck, go win... you can just Yawgmoth's Will to re-use your Demonic Tutor to go find Tooth and Nail, or you your Eternal Witness to get it back, or flashback your Mystical Teachings to find your Snapcaster Mage to replay the Demonic Tutor, leaving you 10 mana to entwine it and have a Flusterstorm backup.
Like he said this deck is about WINNING, not making your opponent suffer through horrible choices. Torment of Hailfire needs to be in a shell that is built to drag the game on a very long time and attrition your opponents out. Damia is trying to end the game by turn 8, if that does not happen by turn 8 it may run out of steam and get taken out of the game because it is not built to win an attrition war. It is built to ramp to, find, and entwine Tooth and Nail to win the game.
1 week ago
Consecrated Sphinx (draw engine that hits things)
Decree of Pain (Draw engine board whipe OR uncounterable board wipe with a draw)
Fierce Empath (Creature tutor that tutors creatures)
Forbid (With damia, the buyback isnt even that big of a drawback)
Green Sun's Zenith (ALL THE TUTORS!)
Increasing Ambition (MOAR TUTORS!)
Mystical Teachings (tutors!)
Phyrexian Delver (high value creature; only life point that matters is your last)
Protean Hulk (Stupidly high value creature they unbanned)
Putrefy (more removal because the deck needs it)
Sakura-Tribe Elder (Ramp and a blocker... just good)
Solemn Simulacrum (Ramp and draw... just good value)
Spell Crumple (Get tucked nerd)
Sylvan Tutor (Tutors = consistency = win)
Swan Song (Cheaper counters)
Tooth and Nail (Blightsteel Colossus + Torrential Gearhulk = crazy value; so many options)
Toxic Deluge (Awesome removal spell)
Venser, Shaper Savant (removal/counterspell on a creature)
Volrath's Stronghold (recur creatures with a land. Nuff said)
Vraska the Unseen (removal and a walker)
Worldly Tutor (Tutors = consistency = wins)
Asceticism (just counter stuff)
Collective Voyage (Symetrical, therefore not helpful)
Coiling Oracle (not strong enough)
Consuming Aberration (just a big fatty... but rarely game swinging)
Darksteel Citadel (I have no clue why you would need an indestructible artifact land)
Devastation Tide (Sorcery therefore too slow & you'll have better options)
Dissipate (You only need about 10 counterspells; this one is just a cut to make room for better cards since you had 11 counters)
Dissolve (getting replaced by Forbid)
Evacuation (better options available)
Far Wanderings (Slow ramp)
Horizon Chimera (I'm not sure you need the life gain so badly that he has to stay, and he's not here for any other purpose. I think you have enough gain with Scooze and Obnoxious)
Isochron Scepter (too likely to get you 2-for-1'd)
Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix (not good on its own)
Leyline of Anticipation (Your deck already has a good half of its castable cards at instant speed)
Naturalize (you are adding enough artifact/enchant removal... should be ok to cut)
Neurok Stealthsuit (just counter stuff)
Rewind (Expensive, and that untapped mana is so rarely relevant in my experience)
Rupture Spire (bad land, and your deck is stable enough with land)
Thing in the Ice Flip (too slow/not good on its own)
Thrasios, Triton Hero (you have tasigur and a ton of ways to tutor him up... probably dont need the "2nd copy" of tasigur)
Time Stop (it's just so expensive)
Exploration (to ramp up to Damia and then let her refill your hand letting you play tons of lands all the time)
Exsanguinate (This provides a wincon or a source of lifegain in a pinch... but I'm not sure you need lifegain that badly, and no good deck will let you kill them with a massive exsanguinate... so if you don't need it for lifegain, you just don't need it).
Courser of Kruphix (same lifegain boat... requires testing to see if he might be needed, although at that point it would be worth looking into boarding Horizon Chimera back in, or maybe running a Wurmcoil Engine).
Fierce Empath allows for a lot of stability with fetching, which is where I am trying to cut off some of the lower curve of your creature base when you have more powerful options available at higher costs, and can spend the first turns of the game trying to keep opponents off of pulling too far ahead of any one other player. Early turns can also be spend casting any of your many tutors to set yourself up.
Similarly I am trying to develop the deck with a lot of cards which have high power and also provide a high level of consistency by tutoring in one way or another, examples being Increasing Ambition, Protean Hulk, Mystical Teachings (which can fetch Torrential Gearhulk, Venser, Shaper Savant, Snapcaster Mage, and Teferi, Mage of Zalfir).
So these suggestions are supposed to bring about consistency in the deck and therefore achieve power by method of consistency. It makes the deck very slow and you'll have to get really good at shuffling and making snap decisions for finding cards from teh deck when you tutor, but from my experience playing control sharuum, consistency is king for control decks, and having just a few high power creatures should be enough to win you games.
1 month ago
Other tutors worth considering:
1 month ago
I like your list. Basically i like everything that spins around zombies. I made my own list
Commander / EDH*
and that's how i stumbled on yours.
I am playing more lands than you, the reason being that they get punished a lot on my playgroup ( Terastodons with emphasis on plural). Just in case you go up against something similar you could try sqeezing a Crucible of Worlds. Perhaps you could also benefit from a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.
Decree of Pain is another card i can recommend. You get to replenish your hand and as you already said so yourself about board wipes, with Vengeful Dead and Plague Belcher it hurts them more than you.
Finally since you rely on a couple of counters to protect your important assets, a decent solution is Mystical Teachings to help you tutor them in instant speed. or it can fetch Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir if you finally decide to include him.
2 months ago
Thanks for the comment. I like it a lot, Torrential Gearhulk is incredibly strong in this deck. You can tutor him up with Mystical Teachings and it can do some neat stuff like block, kill a couple of creatures (flashbacking a Path to Exile or a Fatal Push) and still survive, while acting as a win condition. It's pretty fragile but i tend to use him when my opponent is in top-deck mode. Usually in that scenario you should have a hand full of counters to protect him, or even a semi-lock with Spell Burst, which is pretty strong. Of course Snapcaster Mage is cheaper and overall better, but i like the way the Gearhulk can help you "turn the corner" in this deck. Dragonlord Ojutai is a very strong win-con too, but i dont like to tap out, i love the idea of playing a deck with mostly istant speed spells.
2 months ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't think you can have Mystical Teachings in this deck because Black would be considered part of it's color identity.
2 months ago
With a name like that, I was hoping it was Mystical Teachings.
So, not a fan of your walker line up? Gideon Jura is OK...ish. I would rather play Gideon, Ally of Zendikar though, as the ability to flood the board and have an attacker is good. Plus emblem makes Souls tokens much more threatening. Jace, Architect of Thought has always felt a bit lackluster, especially in a meta where going tall is better than going wide. Liliana of the Veil is also just eh in a control deck, where you want to hold up your cards. Liliana, the Last Hope is IMO better. Able to kill stuff, recurr snappies and her ult is a game winner.
I would also max collonade before I played vents.
3 months ago
Well, hello there.
I see you're running esper control, and I fucking love it. But we need to discuss some points here. This may be a little long, though I'm sure it will clear up some aspects of esper deckbuilding.
- Manabase. Manabase is the crucial point for ANY three-color deck, and especially when we're talking esper, where you'll want to play cards with very color-specific mana costs (e.g. Cryptic Command, Esper Charm, Detention Sphere, Damnation and Supreme Verdict) you need to make sure you have fast access to these colors. In the right order. In the right time. And you really can't assure that using so many taplands. You have literally 0 lands that generate mana in the turn they get on the battlefield. If I had to warn you about one thing only, it would surely be: work your manabase. Right now, I believe the cheapest fetch land is Flooded Strand. With that you have access to get any Godless Shrine, Watery Grave or Hallowed Fountain straight outta the middle of your deck and fixing you really good. For a price, of course, but trust me, 3 lifepoints aren't so much when compared to the benefit of fast manafixing.
- Wincons. Your deck depends on either flipping Thing in the Ice Flip or Luminarch Ascension to win the game. That's not a problem. Spotred has a very awesome deck that wins the game with Myth Realized and that's the coolest thing ever. The problem is you're not moving toward your wincons. Banisher Priest in the same list as Thing in the Ice Flip is horribly bad. And AEtherling, well... Whenever I see and AEtherling I remember a comment I made on Jwillette72's Don't wake horror! (Sung like Don't Wake Daddy), read the comments if you want it, might clear up some stuff too. Basically, Aetherling is awesome and I love the card, but it costs waaaaaaaaaay to much mana and doesn't win you the game. You might as well be dying by turn 6, then you draw one of these guys, cast it and... well, you're still losing the game. As a 6-drop, I'm a great fan of Elspeth, Sun's Champion. She generates a lot of board presence, and if your opponent doesn't handle her in time, she wins the match on her own.
- Strategy. Building esper is hard because there are awesome midrange oriented cards such as Lingering Souls and Geist of Saint Traft, at the same time you have the two best removals in modern Path to Exile and Fatal Push (which should probably replace your 3 copies of Anguished Unmaking for. This card is horribly painful and certainly not better than Path, Push or Sphere), and even counterspells. (friendly reminder: Counterspell is not modern legal). This brings us to some hard dillemas: building a draw-go strategy or a midrange strategy? I play esper draw-go, check my list if you want it: Esper. The main advantage of this list is that you don't really need to play in your turn, and if your opponents don't show anything you need to handle, you have 4 copies of Think Twice for generating an insane amount of card advantage. The midrange strategy is also very consistent, so it's up to you to choose. The main point is: choose one. Not defining what your deck does or how you should play it is very often the biggest mistake by esper players, because you end up with a half-breed of two decks that does literally nothing dues to its lack of strategical consistency.
- Counterspells. Well, this is blue, right? We need to talk about it. Right now, you're using two Counterspells. Since they're not legal, you're probably replacing them by Mana Leak (don't use Cancel. Cancel is bad). There are a few options of good counter magic in Modern right now: Spell Snare, Dispel, Negate, Spell Pierce, Cryptic Command and Remand are probably the best ones, but Remand isn't exactly a counterspell. The point of counter spells is to assure that they cover up your enemies cards. So if your local game store has too many players using creature-based decks, Negate is probably a bad choice. If you have a lot of Jund and Affinity, Spell Snare is a bomb. And so goes, but I believe this sort of analysis is up to you. Just the keep on with the low converted mana cost spells. This is important. And keep the Vendilion Cliques. They're abusively good in any blue control deck.
- Suggestions. I read your comment about Dark Confidant and you don't really need him if you have blue mana. Bob is only good in jund or abzan builds, where you don't have card advantage generators. Snapcaster Mage goes really good here, and I believe he is one of the most interesting cards in all MTG history in terms of gameplay. Sometimes, going off a color might be interesting too. Lately, I took off black and started playing this TrUWe Control, and hell, this is fun. Although, if you really want to keep esper, I strongly suggest using more Esper Charms and Fatal Push. This cards push the esper into a whole new level of control. Lingering Souls is also very consistent in modern right now. There's a small part of the esper fans using Mystical Teachings lately... I don't really like it, but give it a try if you want it.
I hope I helped. I don't really intend to diss your deckbuilding skills or anything alike. I just like to show new control players the ideas other control players shared with me in all these years. If you want to discuss more about esper colors or controls strategies, please feel free to add me.
Anyhow, good deck! Keep it up! +1