|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Common|
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Common|
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Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays .
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Spell Pierce Discussion
2 days ago
I may be a bit off, but the main point was that cEDH and EDH function differently enough that cards that are good in one can be relatively bad in the other and I still stand by it. Spell Pierce as an example is indeed useful in "regular" EDH, but depending on the meta it can often be much worse than the alternatives. It's not as useless as there are simply numerous better/much more reliable options to include. Sure it sill has its uses, especially when going for an early win or when fighting a counter war, but it's outclassed for the spot by more expensive, yet more reliable interaction. I agree that cEDH can cross over to EDH more easily than the reverse, but they work so differently that card quality varies drastically depending on which format is being considered (my experience here comes from researching mostly cEDH decks as a source of ideas for decks and from "converting" those for "regular" EDH).
Probably unintentionally, but there has probably been a misunderstanding on your side. I didn't comment on cEDH tiers, I commented on "regular" EDH and how these competitive tiers relate to that. First thing I noted when I commented here is that I'm not into cEDH and that I cannot comment on tiers there, and hence I thought that it was obviously implied by my constant clinging to EDH as opposed to cEDH. I know, and have witnessed, that a janky or weak deck can squeeze out a win. But if not going for an optimized competitive build but for the deck "fitting" for the commander at "75%" level, the difference in winrate and consistency between tiers 3 and 5 can often be quite significant and this list illustrates that somewhat. I'm not saying that the Best Adriana deck can't win, but that on average in 75%, Aurelia is a better bet for a Boros deck than Adriana.
And I also stated in my first post that I'm aware of difference between pure commander quality and the importance of the build (Tazri/Narset example) and I explicitly said that I don't want to go there since you guys said everything a few weeks back; commander is just part of the mix and a good deck can be built to bypass using a (relatively bad) commander while maintaining a solid winrate.
But we drifted away from my original reason for posting here. I'm not here to teach you guys about cEDH, you play it, I don't, hence I can't discuss it even if I wanted to. I just wanted to drop by and tell you from a non-cEDH perspective how popular and useful this list is for us (more than a few people agreed with me over the course of last 2 years I've been in EDH) and that it would be a shame if you stopped maintaining the lower tiers. It's a few minute's work for 2-4 of you to agree on its approximate placing (and apparently 6-9 months to do the actual update. No ill intentions here, just piling up on the questions/complaints about that xD ), and it helps anyone new to the EDH or to the particular commander to quickly get the idea how good it is compared to the other commanders one might be more familiar with.
Just to be clear; I disagree with the "75% theory". But it's the most widely known expression for the so-called casual competitive and I tend to use it often because of that. Decks weaker and slower than cEDH, but that can steamroll "casual" decks. Just to address that one in advance.
3 days ago
Well, JohnnyCRO, though you say that some cards are crap in each other's meta, I think you are a little off. Some cards from CEDH may not be as useful, or rarely useful at all in a non-CEDH meta, for example, Spell Pierce in a Hermit Druid deck, where all of your opponents are only playing their Steel Leaf Champions and Cultivates, perhaps having no interaction one game, where you'd rather a Ponder, but that doesn't mean that the card is crap. Generally speaking, the Hermit Druid player finds a tutor, goes off, wins, and has that extra Spell Pierce buffer protecting it. Even if it isn't entirely as useful, countering a Cultivate that'd put off an opponent from Iona, Shield of Emeria in some circumstances, or lead them to kill you with a horde of elves given a bad hand on your part.
Really, I find that though many cards are crap from normal EDH to CEDH, the opposite is lesser true.
Also, your point on that tier 5 is too janky to win in cEDH is false, it doesn't have a 25% winrate (average in 4-player given each player is playing at maximum level, knows their opponents decks, and aren't janking out wins) against Tier 1, but 20% winrate isn't awful.
I have found all tiers to house commanders that can helm exceptionally powerful decks, and though you may as a Karona, False God player why don't they run Scion of the Ur-Dragon and up their decks performance by a decent margin, having part of the Worldgorger Dragon combo in the zone, their winrates are about the same, despite being 3.5 tiers apart. I'd estimate the decks average winrates to only be a good 2% different against Tier 1 lists, with the main difference being that the dragon has more win-combos, and Karona replacing some of the dragons with more tutors and consistency with the druid line.
3 days ago
Yea my hand go very fast, I'll put 2x Bedlam Reveler. I also removed 1xShock, 1xLightning Strike, 1xSpell Pierce and 1x Condescend and I've put some Stubborn Denial. SeekerofSecrets hey I'm very grateful to you for helping me.
3 days ago
yeah possibly a 3-3 split, it's not really a big deal that it comes down a turn later but the extra damage is vital for removal, I would also probably remove Lightning Strike and maybe Condescend for 2x Bedlam Reveler. your going to empty your hand very fast so he's nice to reload.
4 days ago
i'm not sure what the win-con is in this deck is it just to attack with Bone Dragon and hope they can't win the counter war if that is the case you probably want some of the lower cost counters i'm not sure how i feel about syncopate it just doesn't feel like it will win you those wars if you are having to tap out to make sure they can't just pay it or they just hit that with another counter anyway Spell Pierce good one and find a maybe a way to push your win-con a little better if it is to attack with bone dragon or find secondary win-con like Revel in Riches i could just be spouting non sense take it with a grain of salt. based on my first look and no play Arguel's Blood Fast
4 days ago
1 week ago
Sideboards are where you put your more narrow answers that might be good against a few decks.
Aethersphere Harvester against aggro
Sleep Against tokens
Also it could be handy to have different removal like: