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Tainted Pact Discussion
1 week ago
Cards that I don't like:
Darkwater Catacombs | In a turn 4/5 build, it's too slow. Basically useless in some situations and opposite of mana fixing
Fetid Pools | Enters tapped needs strong abilities, maybe turn 8 cycling would be good, but in a Turn 4/5 build, it's not a turn 1 through 4 land so shouldn't be in there
Great Furnace | I think you can fetch , a single on Turn 1 though 4 is terrible
Tolaria West | Great land, but what does it tutor for you that's a combo card, Mana Crypt is ok, but none of your combos are land based, I wouldn't run this. If you needed to fetch a specific land for a combo would be ok.
I would go down 1 net land to 36 as well.
Devastation Tide | Miracle is too random, want to control your spells not have them control you. And it's a sorcery, as an instant it would be ok.
Cryptic Command has a pretty High CMC with , it's instant so it's better than some of the other sorcery/creatures, but could be a problem. It's VERY good card though, I would keep it worth the hard casting cost.
Scroll Rack mana sponges, it's too random, and too slow for turn 4/5 deck
Tolaria West go down a land!
Tunnel Vision (when used to tutor) >> Mizzix's Mastery! (Downside is it misses Omniscience so need something it can hit to put a card from graveyard into hand, best would be a card like that with flashback) OR Tunnel Vision >> Yawgmoth's Will. If it discards a Past in Flames get a couple shots. I think Kess, Dissident Mage can cast the Overload cost from the graveyard for Mizzix's Mastery too if you do get it looking for the Yawgmoth's Will which then cast the Yawgmoth's Will.
Summary: Harder to tutor items (Enchantment) should be priorities, Necropotence or Omniscience. Kess, Dissident Mage let's you recast and pull another item in most cases to finish the combo Omniscience + Enter the Infinite, lots of tutors pull Show and Tell for you.
Capture of Jingzhou and Temporal Manipulation are good too, but not necessary, you're really just trying to combo win with Show and Tell + Omniscience + Enter the Infinite would focus on getting there.
Frantic Search is better if you have a way to recur-it, like a Nivix Guildmage, but it does give you more control on the discard. The problem arises when you only have 1 card in hand, becomes the same issue I'm sure you experience with the Scroll Rack.
Dreadbore could just be another tutor that pulls Hero's Downfall they do the same thing anyway (or a Yawgmoth's Will if you need to recast Hero's Downfall and have used Kess, Dissident Mage. And it's a sorcery (YUCK)
You need the Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots for Phage the Untouchable and Laboratory Maniac. You could lose the Swiftfoot Boots since you do have Artifact tutors, but I bet they are pulling mana sources not boots.
Temporal Extortion could be wasted spell, since i doubt your doing the extra damage, but in multi-player perhaps it may resolve due to politics.
Time Warp could come out too if needed, high CMC extra turns. Useful for mid-range play though.
Need to research a way to bring a card from graveyard to hand, if it has flashback, that would be AMAZING!
2 weeks ago
freakingShane: Glad you like it! Here's the answers:
Chain of Vapor is unconditional removal: it removes any card that's preventing you from winning (stuff like Torpor Orb, Stony Silence, Null Rod, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Arcane Laboratory, etc., etc. PLUS, it's also a mana trick, if you target your own Mana Crypt or Mana Vault or Mox Opal, or all three, you can really generate a lot of mana to fuel your combo.
Dack Fayden is probably one of the weaker cards in the list, but Tezzeret is a lot worse. Dack's really here for his +1 ability, which is awesome. It dramatically improves your card quality in hand, it helps you find mana when you need, helps you ditch too many lands when you don't need it, and it puts combo pieces in the graveyard, where they're needed. If you can activate Dack's +1 for 2 or three turns, it's really very powerful. The only downside is that it's sometimes hard to get blockers for Dack, but if you can cast Breya that really solves that problem.
Pull from Eternity is great if people are trying to exile your graveyard combo pieces. It's also great with Tainted Pact and sometimes Doomsday, Yawgmoth's Will, or Chrome Mox. Try it. I think you'll like it.
2 weeks ago
I guess Impulse and Whispers are the weakest cards in the deck. I guess the deck could use an additional removal spell and maybe Mystic Speculation.
Now heres a dumb question. How good is Angels Grace? I know it wins the game when used with Ad Nauseam but is that enough to justify its spot in the deck? This is the first time I will be using it and I havent had much luck with Ad Nauseam so I havent exactly relied on it that much. Hopefully Angels Grace will change that.
3 weeks ago
Hey mmcgeach! I like your list too! Obviously it has had a lot of influence on mine :P
Prepare for an essay... :)
Tainted Pact has been nuts. The card is excellent had has been instant speed Demonic Tutor on multiple occasions. I have never done the Laboratory Maniac thing with it cause it has just never really lined up that way. I tend to play Breya a little more conservatively too so if my hand is lab man + tutor I am never gonna go for T. Pact in that spot.
Pull from Eternity is also nuts. Ironically when I first looked into playing Breya it was one of the first things I wanted to cut but I wanted to give it a legit show before cutting it and am eternally grateful I did. The card is just soooo much better than it looks on paper.
So Timetwister is an interesting one. I noticed your lack of inclusion of the card and tried the deck without it at first but quickly realized the card is waaaay to busted to not play. Even the times where you have been setting up your graveyard for a few turns and you are hit with twister it doesn't really matter cause you are getting 7 cards out of it. And I have cast it more than once as a way to disrupt the rest of the tables' graveyard shenanigans because our combo isn't that hard to set up at our leisure once the noise of the first few turns has played out. Once again, we are more of the "control" deck of the table than a true all in combo, so the time it stalls the table from comboing generally favors us. Obviously the times with a bunch of mana rocks into Twister on turn 1 or 2 is just over the top powerful but I have honestly found it to be as good as Wheel of Fortune despite apparent disynergy. Note: The card isn't anywhere near as good as it is in Competitive Yidris Storm which is the other deck I play a lot of (I like my 4 color monstrosities) so we are honestly one of the decks where twister is at its worst, but ultimately I think it is still too good not to be an include. I have been happy with it.
Completely agree with your points on Dark Petition. I considered both when making the swap and ended on Grim Tutor because it was a card I didn't really mind taking my entire turn to cast, but the card has been incredibly mediocre so I began considering Dark Petition again. I have honestly considered switching back to like Thirst for Knowledge or Night's Whisper over it or something. I haven't HATED it but its not exciting. I mean ffs, its only one mana off of Diabolic Tutor and that card is completely unplayable.
Yea... I cut Pyroblast. There is a lot more Hermit Druid decks, Food Chain decks, Elf decks and random creature decks like Captain Sisay in my local meta so the card just wasn't really doing much for me. I would probably consider it for a more open meta but locally the card is pretty dead. (To be honest, I think I would still consider like Ricochet Trap or something I feel is slightly more flexible in a more open meta game). I have considered Fatal Push or Forked Bolt as potential adds for my local game. The ol' "kill two mana idiots on my turn 1" is really tempting to try.
Izzet Charm is GREAT. It kinda does a little of everything we want to do. I use all three of the modes on that card pretty consistently and its flexibility is intoxicating. I don't see myself ever cutting that card to be honest. And as mentioned above, the fact it let me splice in another creature removal spell was really important for my creature heave meta. I haven't actually found very many times where the creatures I want to kill have had more than 2 toughness though to be honest.
The thing about Thought Scour is that the card feels free. Like even if you don't want to USE the graveyard for your Doomsday piles, it still lets you churn through the cards faster. If you draw it, it doesn't really cost that much to just cycle it, it makes your Brainstorm into "perfect Brainstorms" acting as another shuffle effect, and it kinda has synergy with Vampiric Tutor making the aforementioned tutor into an Entomb. All around the card feels so free to include, and tbh, I am kind of awful at Doomsday piles. I think I have only one once casting DD and in general find any other way to win. So the more options I have with DD after casting it the better off I would like to think I am. I would be open to cutting it but haven't had any really negative situations with it. Plus you can shut off other people's Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Vampiric Tutors which is pretty sick.
Angel's Grace is really interesting. There aren't very many games I lose casting Ad Naus, albeit, like Timetwister, we don't make Ad Naus look nearly as busted as Yidris Storm does and that is moderately frustrating. I have definitely had some underwhelming flips but it is still so rare that I lose with it that I think trying to include a. grace just for that is probably not good enough to justify a spot. But I am pretty enchanted with the idea of a. gracing as another copy of Silence to disrupt other people's combos. Probably worth trying but I don't see it being a major player. Like I said, I am eyeing cards like Ricochet Trap, Forked Bolt, and/or Fatal Push as pretty reasonable adds. Though it still bugs me to no end that I can't fit a Preordain in this deck but have room for a Thought Scour.
4 weeks ago
Hi Dake, I like your list. I'm glad you like the Tainted Pact - Pull from Eternity lines. I think those cards are so insanely powerful that it really makes Breya a stronger general, since Breya is the deck that really maximizes the potential of them. Having the win-condition in the command zone means you're never in danger of exiling the win with your tainted pact. And being a reanimation shell makes pull sooo good. Then you get to play Lab man with Tainted Pact and Doomsday; there's just so much synergy with a tutor that's also a combo piece. I think these lines are sneakily some of the best things about the deck.
Can I ask about some of the switches you've made?
I wasn't running Timetwister cause I didn't want to be emptying my own graveyard... but, early wheels are so good. How has it been?
How is Grim Tutor? I don't own one, so I haven't tried it, but it looks mediocre. I wouldn't replace this with Dark Petition... I tried Dark Petition for a while and this Breya list just doesn't generate enough mana. Other storm decks like Thrasios actually have a lot more acceleration so the 5 cmc is a reasonable play on turn 3 or 4, frequently with backup. Breya wants to use every point of mana as efficiently as possible, so dark petition is just a little too much.
You cut Pyroblast? Is that just a meta decision because of a lack of opposing blue decks? I always thought it was the 6th-best counterspell in the format; which, you know, makes it really strong.
Similarly, I cut Izzet Charm from my list due to meta game reasons: there were a lot of people playing Yisan and Selvala (both toughness >= 3), so I just couldn't devote an interaction slot to a card that didn't deal with those generals. I'd put it back in now, I think.
FYI, I've sometimes cut Thought Scour since I usually want to go for a Doomsday pile that doesn't use the GY. It limits the potential for some really early doomsdays, but I found those to be pretty unlikely anyway. But Thought Scour is pretty dead outside of certain doomsday piles.
How do you feel about Angel's Grace as a possible include? How are your typical Ad Naus plays?
1 month ago
1 month ago
Tainted Pact is a card that first seems like an obvious pick for a deck that wants to rush into its "one-card" combo (Gitrog + Dakmor Salvage) as soon as possible, but unfortunately it really isn't that great here as the combo has so many moving parts in it. The deck also relies heavily on these moving parts, which is why exiling combo pieces can be a real pain if not a complete blowout.
Flipping a Kozilek is the main deal breaker as you never want to exile him, and to add he's more or less a completely dead draw. Furthermore, assuming we hit Dakmor it's another must-keep, even though it has at least some use outside of the combo. And finally, if we have any part of the combo in exile (which almost certainly will happen when we dig more than a dozen cards with Pact), we never ever want to exile our one-of Riftsweeper as then we lose access to the pieces permanently.
I will admit that I haven't counted the numbers on the odds of flipping these pieces, but seeing as there are potentially several cards that you will almost never want to flip off of Pact, it really has some bad blood with this sort of deck to be a viable tutor candidate (unlike in a deck that dives to their combo piece head-first or has several one-card wincons like Food Chain Prossh or Doomsday/Shimmer Myr Zur respectively).
Thanks for the recommendation though, it's not something that has been asked before so it's a good card to be discussed about.
1 month ago
I don't know whether or not you'd already considered it, but since you only have two of each basic, you could replace one each with a snow-covered variant and safely run Tainted Pact. This would make it so that you could never brick with it.