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|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Rare|
|Portal Three Kingdoms (PTK)||Rare|
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Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it. You lose 2 life.
Imperial Seal Discussion
3 days ago
Breya is always an interesting deck. I personally like the infinite-mana options; repeatedly casting Breya, then sac-ing her and one of the thopters to bolt an opponent results in game over immediately. I see three ways that are easiest to achieve that goal.
Second, reanimated dragon combo: Worldgorger Dragon with Animate Dead , Necromancy , Dance of the Dead , or any other reanimating enchantment. The Worldgorger (which is reanimated from the yard) trigger exiles the reanimation enchantment, which lets it die, which returns the enchantment, which brings back the dragon... tapping all your lands/mana rocks for mana when they flicker in results in infinite mana. You really need another creature to target to end the loop, but it isn't too difficult to make sure this is the case.
Note that combos 1 and 2 accommodate Entomb effects as a tutor. So if you want to run those combos, Entomb , Buried Alive and/or Faithless Looting and the like are your friends. Note also that 1 and 2 generate infinite ETB triggers. Pairing them with Altar of the Brood allows you to win even if your commander has been countered or removed to oblivion. Furthermore, running Sculpting Steel or Phyrexian Metamorph to copy Sharuum the Hegemon creates a loop where you sac one to the legend rule and then bring back either the original or copying artifact. That also generates infinite ETB triggers, and is a pet combo of mine.
I strongly advise tutors outside the transmute ones. Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Imperial Seal , Enlightened Tutor , Reshape , Whir of Invention , Gamble and Transmute Artifact are all in your colors (though some are more easily obtained than others). These will increase your deck's consistency, regardless of whether you decide to use the combo-build.
Depending on your deck's budget, you might want to consider your mana base as a work-in-progress. Slow Fetches like Rocky Tar Pit and Flood Plain are well under a dollar, and work well enough as a replacement for Bloodstained Mire or Flooded Strand . Mana Confluence and City of Brass are also powerhouses in a 4-color deck. You should at least consider Forbidden Orchard .
Ramp is important in any EDH deck. Mind Stone is a good addition, along with Ancient Tomb . I typically don't care for 3-mana rocks, but Chromatic Lantern is good in 4- or 5-color decks. Izzet Signet is a good idea in addition to the other two signets you're running. Non-blue ones aren't nearly as good, but if you really need another, I advise Orzhov Signet over Boros Signet or Rakdos Signet . Sculpting Steel and Phyrexian Metamorph are good ways to copy opponents' rocks as well as your own, or even creatures in the case of the metamorph. Copy Artifact is another option.
Because you're in black, you have access to some real good card draw. Phyrexian Arena and Staff of Nin are good as permanent sources of card-advantage. Ambition's Cost , Ancient Craving , Painful Truths and Chart a Course are all good ways to draw cards as well.
Good luck with deck building.
3 days ago
Ripwater, thanks for the reply. I always look forward with much anticipation to your input.
Everytime I try to move away from Control_Train's list I end up putting back in his card's that I cut.
Silhana Wayfinder is subpar. We have discussed my view that Destructor Dragon is overcosted. I agree with your theory that Massacre Girl would threaten Meren so I am hesitant to play her. I like having Kukusho and Sheoldred to help close out games. Am I wrong that Control_Train's list lacks any closers?
He has played Mindslicer in the past. The theory behind this card's inclusion is solid. We should be able to play top deck much better than our opponents by utilizing the graveyard. It is a nice inclusion for our Birthing Pod chain. How has it performed for you?
Is Sylvan Safekeeper a recent addition? I thought for sure you were not playing this card as of last week.
Pattern of Rebirth , Dismember , Mausoleum Secrets , Casualties of War , and Final Parting were replaced by Birthing Pod , Sylvan Library , Survival of the Fittest a Imperial Seal and Guardian Project in my list.
I only have reservations concerning Casulties of War. The three tutors (or tutor engines) I am playing have proven to be superior to his across all formats. Sylvan Library is a green staple, and is an extremely strong early turn play. You made a convincing argument in defense of Guardian Project. Dismember seems like the weakest of the removal spells.
I cut Sol Ring but it was like pulling teeth and may make way back into the deck. I tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper frequently and the deck tutors creatures easier than artifacts. Still, Lightning Greaves should be in my list. Safekeeper is the superior card in my opinion but this deck has to have Meren on board. Has Lightning Greaves been effective for you?
As a side note, it does not seem Control_Train reinserts cards he cuts. I wish I could say the same. I put Prowling Serpopard back into the deck. Chalk it up to an irrational fear of blue countermagic. No attempts at justification will be made for its inclusion.
3 days ago
Frank_Glascock. Getting the tribe elder means I'm getting a recurrable sac piece to my hand that ramps my board state. Another option would be the Spore Frog. But it depends a bit what you are playing against.
Yeah Necrotic Ooze I changed my mind about. I forgot it is a backup sac outlet among other stuff. So he is back in for now. I'm still in the process of testing control_trains list, and I'm just not convinced about all the picks he made.
Only play Birthing Pod if your curve with creatures is good enough. I checked mine last time and it was quite alright. Worldly tutor I don't think you need, but you can run it if you prefer another tutor I guess. But don't underestimate a well placed Victimize. It's both an incredible reanimate card and a sac outlet.
Again with the Imperial Seal ;-) Okay for the last time, It is an awesome card and if you really want a spot for it you can basically take any tutor out. I have a lot of expensive cards (Cradle etc) unfortunately this one I don't own. Thats why it's not in the deck. Although Mausoleum Secrets is a pretty okay tutor as well. Instant speed and goes straight to your hand.
And massacre wurm I'm gonna look at today, all 3 of the cards are amazing destroy effects I'm quite reluctant to cut + I'm gonna put him in for a creature.
About the birthing pod, still trying it out. He really performed last week. Often I stick around saccing a 3 mana creature to go to 4 mana. It's not about getting to 7 as fast as possible, the deck is all about getting what is needed in the situation we are in.
4 days ago
Ok. So you said you want degenerate, so... here goes.
First off, Braids, Cabal Minion is banned. So you might want to remove it.
You should either be running the fetches, including the off-color ones like Flooded Strand , or run Suppression Field ; this also is a somewhat broader and more applicable answer to planeswalkers than The Elderspell , as it has non-planeswalker target. It puts a damper on the planeswalkers, but I feel like they might be better replaced with board wipes like Wrath of God , Day of Judgment , Damnation or Toxic Deluge . When I played this general, I don't think I ran any creatures; they tend to be easily removed, but their effects may be replaced by enchantments/artifacts (ex: Thorn of Amethyst replaces Thalia, Guardian of Thraben ). Additionally, because Athreos, God of Passage is indestructible, it survives most board wipes. I recommend Erebos, God of the Dead as a second useful god; and in an Oloro meta, it seems particularly applicable. Sphere of Safety and Lightmine Field can serve as further deterrents to attackers; Maze of Ith also fits in well. Serra's Sanctum also is a powerhouse, if combined with a high-enough enchantment count. If you take the creature-less rout, I advise Night of Souls' Betrayal to remove the ability of elf- or dork-based decks to function. You might also consider Cursed Totem .
I see you have Vampiric Tutor in the maybe board. It's massively superior to Diabolic Tutor , if only because of its much lower mana cost; Imperial Seal is a strictly worse version I run in my Kess list, but it is also very good. Bitterblossom is a great inclusion, especially if you're running something like Contamination to mess with everyone's mana.
Mana Crypt is invaluable in cEDH decks. Fragmentize is a good white equivalent to Nature's Claim , especially in metas with low curves. Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace are good techs against graveyard decks like as Gitrog, with the added advantage of allowing a win with a Helm of Obedience activation.
I've never been impressed with 1-for-1s in EDH; by that token, Mortify and Doom Blade may be on the chopping block. Utter End is alright, simply because of its universality. I'd replace these with the above boardwipes, but I also suggest Pox or Smallpox . Pox has the additional advantage of severely lowering your opponents' life totals, so ad nauseum players tend to just cry, and your Painful Quandary becomes more oppressive. Stab Wound , which is another type of 1-for-1, might be better replaced with Palace Siege . Swords to Plowshares is the single 1-for-1 I highly recommend, because of its low cost, exile-based removal, and relatively small downside.
Good luck! Stax em out.
5 days ago
I find it very interesting that your first tutor is for Sakura-Tribe Elder . I have only played a couple of games with the deck. My first tutor is usually Spore Frog or Sylvan Safekeeper . It would seem your opponents would target Meren. How do you keep her on the board? Is your reasoning that you use Sakura-Tribe Elder to ramp so that you can just recast her?
Has your thoughts on Necrotic Ooze changed? You posted on May 15 on Control_Train's thread, "The other one that I've cut is Necrotic Ooze again, rarely pulled it's weight and often he turned into a sakura tribe elder... Not what I want to do for 4 mana."
I have tried to not add cards that either you or Control_Train are not playing. The logic being why not utilized two players who have games upon games to tune the deck. Keeping that in mind would you think it would be prudent to cut Pitiless Plunderer for Birthing Pod , and Victimize for Worldly Tutor ?
Now, having said that, I now am going to ask your opinion on cutting Mausoleum Secrets for Imperial Seal and Pernicious Deed , Maelstrom Pulse or Casualties of War for Massacre Wurm . The first cut I do not envision being controversial. Imperial Seal is a top deck, sorcery speed unconditional tutor. Mausoleum Secrets is instant speed but requires creatures in the graveyard and only gets a black card.
The second cut may get down voted by you. The deck already plays a top of spot removal and sweepers. Massacre Wurm is already on your radar and it makes another great etb effect at 6 mana for Birthing Pod .
Speaking of Birthing Pod, you only have one good etb creature at five mana in Sidisi, Undead Vizier .
1 week ago
Your right that I should reconsider Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker . This includes even having them in the 99 as I do have worse creatures than them in the deck. It would be fun to change it up and run them as commanders occasionally. This would mean removing Hatred and possibly running something like Tainted Strike instead. The Spark Double interests me, though with my build focusing on alot of X cost creatures, it may not be as potent as in your deck, especially when running Atraxa as commander. I had actually considered Phantasmal Image however that card has that annoying sacrifice clause. Blade of Selves is a card I must start playtesting immediately, it sounds really interesting though I may want to add a few more good creatures with ETB effects. Sticking Blade of Selves on a Recruiter of the Guard just sounds amazing.
I also found some interesting cards to consider while looking at your deck. I should reconsider Crop Rotation to get that cradle. Eladamri's Call sounds like a tutor I should consider if I cant get my hands on an Imperial Seal . Selfless Squire looks funny as hell and I want one immediately.
1 week ago
skillz2125, so true. Especially the good ones like: Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor and the most expensive of them all: Imperial Seal . The best one I own is Diabolic Intent but that's in another deck. I suppose Corpse Harvester is, and he's obviously in here but thats on a creature. Other than that though, I have Diabolic Tutor and Razaketh's Rite and Mastermind's Acquisition available but theyre so expensive CMC wise. And I wouldnt even know what to cut for them.
1 week ago
To answer your questions:
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win? I'm in no way on the move to play a combo. Plus a 4 card combo in my opinion is maybe a bit janky to pull off. I don't have the feeling I miss the mana/ramp to include Pitiless Plunderer . Chainer, Izoni and Savra all stand on their own and perform a lot of work.
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ? Short answer? No. Craterhoof Behemoth is a typical go wide card. Most of the time I have around 3-4 creatures on the board. Craterhoof would do nothing for my deck.
I really liked your inclusion of Mindslicer . I just pulled one from my box last night and was planning to put it into the deck. Sheoldred, Whispering One had been on my radar for a while. Well credits for that one go to you, my friend. ;-) I had it in my binder and when you mentioned it I looked at it and went why not! Let's at least give it a try. Sheoldred, Whispering One is an all star and I would always run it in any meren deck.
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards. For now I don't have the feeling I'm running too much removal. The goal of the deck is pretty much winning the grind. So wiping the board + destroying and removing stuff is the main goal of this deck. I need to playtest waaaay more to figure out if I run too much. To look closer at the cards you mentioned. If I need to cut Damnation would be the first one. I just always have the feeling it's a welcome card to draw. Toxic Deluge is brilliant and it's an early boardwipe to disrupt our opponents. Living Death serves more as a reanimation card, then it is a boardwipe. My creatures are most of the time in the graveyard. It's basically a win con on it's own.
Could I make an argument that Imperial Seal is superior to Final Parting ? Would you include both? What would you cut? Superior, absolutely. It's basically another Vampiric Tutor . Unfortunately I'm not made of money and I simply don't own that card. That being said, most of my games I got to play Final Parting. And with Meren out on the table I would rather draw into a Final Parting then a Imperial Seal . Playing Final Parting means I get one card to my hand (any) and one creature to the battlefield at the end of our turn. That's where the power comes in from this tutor! Next to this. Imperial Seal is sorcery speed. So if we have no draw engine, we need to wait an entire turn. But if you have one laying around, I would just playtest them both a bit. See wich one feels better.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland? I love fetches and normally I stuff my deck full with them :). But in this deck I don't have the feeling I'm missing them too much. I have 5 decks and 3 of them run all the fetches they can. One is Omnath, Locus of Rage (dont think I need to explain). Queen Marchesa a control deck, so it's important I get my colors and shuffle effects. This deck is more, if I have green and black I'm good to go. The fetch is more there to go to my shock. If I had more lands that gave double color and that I could fetch I would run 1 more. In my opinion, 3+ color decks and decks that want their decks shuffled benefit more of fetches. It's a personal preference.
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient? Earthcraft I'm still in doubt on as well. I mentioned it at Control_Train as well. The card often feels a bit underused. But early game it helps to get my bigger dudes out faster. The card is not in there to be super abused since we often only have about 3-4 creatures on the field. So yeah you might be right on that. For now it stays in but it's on the shitlist.
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said? I totally agree with his argument. I own one copy of Gaea's Cradle and I run it in Omnath, Locus of Rage where it does all the work and really keep the engine going. In meren we probably will have a cradle tapping for 2-3 lategame. And tbh we don't need the ramp. Cradle is a super nice card, but it's a bit of the same argument why I don't run Craterhoof Behemoth
You didn't follow Control_Train's lead and cut Dread Return or Soul of the Harvest . As we speak I have my deck in front of me ;) And those 2 are laying outside of the deck. Now just checking what to put back in. Solemn Simulacrum is on it's way into the deck I think. Since he ramps and draws cards, but as you just mentioned I only run 13 basics and with also 2 other creatures who do so he might not be the strongest pick. I also laid out my curve and Birthing Pod might be on its way back in. Phyrexian Obliterator might also going back in, since he is a nice target to recur at 4 mana for a 5/5. It also stops people from attacking you. If you have any other good suggestions I would love to hear them!
What would you cut if you added Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves ? Do you not have issues with Meren getting removed? If you really want to play a sol ring maybe Dread Return ? Honestly I never really had the feeling I missed not having a sol ring in a deck. Lightning Greaves is maybe a good addition. The thing is with Sylvan Safekeeper he is recurrable. Lightning Greaves will definately get destroyed. Or at least in my meta people love blowing up boots/greaves. If you really want to play it, I think Prowling Serpopard if you run it now?
Dark Confidant in theory seems very dangerous in a deck with as high as a mana cost as this one. Am I way off base? The thing what makes Dark Confidant so good and for example Dark Tutelage absolute trash, is the fact that it's a creature. He is the one example where you don't want him to stick around. Enchantments stick around, creatures don't. Early game he is a powerhouse and an awesome target to dump in a meatgrinder after a few turns!
Imperial Seal occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%
W/U/B (Esper): 0.44%