|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Rare|
|Planar Chaos (PLC)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
|Promo set for Gatherer (PSG)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated.
|Have (3)||, lorddarkstar , saj0219|
|Want (11)||brokendwarf , A_Naked_Equinox , ThirdOf5 , madman-from-space , paperstax , derpyplatypus , Daddy1ong1egs13 , Harliti , drowninja321 , KillDatBUG , cantcmenoobz|
13 hours ago
I'm an Espers player, looking into your deck and i have one thing to say, Muldrotha, the Gravetide it's not a deck wich looks for an answer but a way to get through...
Destroy what's in front of you and don't waste ur time in disrupting others play in their turns.
If you need to sac your things do it in the way everyone loses with you, those things are going to return in ur side pretty easy... i think you need more boardwipes, and tutoring to create the concistency, Diabolic Tutor , Toxic Deluge , Damnation Black Sun's Zenith , Mystical Tutor , Prime Speaker Vannifar for name some... also, Rampant Growth , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach you need to get your lands ASAP if you don't have to many Rocks/Dorks so take advantage of your "green side"
the more mana the best for Muldrotha, the Gravetide
that's my oppinion! :D
1 day ago
Good cheap killspells I can recommend would be Tyrant's Scorn , Victim of Night , and Languish . Languish is just a poor-mans Damnation, but i find some kind if board wipe pretty useful, and most of the time this should buy you and extra 2-3 turns. Victim of Night is strong, but the double-black can be pretty restricting, so Tyrant's Scorn might be a better option (or a mix of them both).
1 day ago
Ok. So you said you want degenerate, so... here goes.
First off, Braids, Cabal Minion is banned. So you might want to remove it.
You should either be running the fetches, including the off-color ones like Flooded Strand , or run Suppression Field ; this also is a somewhat broader and more applicable answer to planeswalkers than The Elderspell , as it has non-planeswalker target. It puts a damper on the planeswalkers, but I feel like they might be better replaced with board wipes like Wrath of God , Day of Judgment , Damnation or Toxic Deluge . When I played this general, I don't think I ran any creatures; they tend to be easily removed, but their effects may be replaced by enchantments/artifacts (ex: Thorn of Amethyst replaces Thalia, Guardian of Thraben ). Additionally, because Athreos, God of Passage is indestructible, it survives most board wipes. I recommend Erebos, God of the Dead as a second useful god; and in an Oloro meta, it seems particularly applicable. Sphere of Safety and Lightmine Field can serve as further deterrents to attackers; Maze of Ith also fits in well. Serra's Sanctum also is a powerhouse, if combined with a high-enough enchantment count. If you take the creature-less rout, I advise Night of Souls' Betrayal to remove the ability of elf- or dork-based decks to function. You might also consider Cursed Totem .
I see you have Vampiric Tutor in the maybe board. It's massively superior to Diabolic Tutor , if only because of its much lower mana cost; Imperial Seal is a strictly worse version I run in my Kess list, but it is also very good. Bitterblossom is a great inclusion, especially if you're running something like Contamination to mess with everyone's mana.
Mana Crypt is invaluable in cEDH decks. Fragmentize is a good white equivalent to Nature's Claim , especially in metas with low curves. Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace are good techs against graveyard decks like as Gitrog, with the added advantage of allowing a win with a Helm of Obedience activation.
I've never been impressed with 1-for-1s in EDH; by that token, Mortify and Doom Blade may be on the chopping block. Utter End is alright, simply because of its universality. I'd replace these with the above boardwipes, but I also suggest Pox or Smallpox . Pox has the additional advantage of severely lowering your opponents' life totals, so ad nauseum players tend to just cry, and your Painful Quandary becomes more oppressive. Stab Wound , which is another type of 1-for-1, might be better replaced with Palace Siege . Swords to Plowshares is the single 1-for-1 I highly recommend, because of its low cost, exile-based removal, and relatively small downside.
Good luck! Stax em out.
1 day ago
Hiya, thanks for the compliments. You do touch on some issues with the deck that are somewhat hard to fix but let's go through your points:
1) They are mainly in there for sheer fun. I like legendary stuff, Krav is a slamdunk in the deck for its abilities, Regna is a pretty angel. That being said, they are high on mana and especially Regna can be a bit lackluster. However, you should read them as "Krav, do awesome stuff, draw Regna". "Regna: meh, draw Krav". I'm never sad when I draw either of them. Either I draw Krav and the Regna I get out it is just gravy or i draw Regna (which is still a 4/4 white flyer with upside) that tutors for Krav.
2) I run: Teysa, Gearhulk, Elesh Norn, Massacre Wurm, Plaguelord, Anguished Unmaking, Vindicate, StP, Return to Dust, Tragic Arrogance, Attrition, Dictate, Abyss and Parallax Wave for removal. That's 2 board wipes (gearhulk and arrogance), 2 conditional wipes (Elesh norn and massacre wurm), 1 onesided wipe (parralax wave). Stuff generally dies. You don't want many board wipes in a board-centric strategy as this one. I could play Damnation but that only plays fine from behind, you don't really want to play that when even or ahead. Imagine having a decent boardstate and someone else plays Avenger of Zendikar . Suddenly I have to sacrifice everything just to halt that player. Gearhulk and Arrogance fix that very neatly on top of disrupting players that rely on too many permanents of the same sort. Granted, they will cost you some enchantments most of the time.
3) They are very low impact that rely on either going infinite (which I don't like) or a commanding boardstate (why are you not winning at that point). Imagine it being turn 9 or something and you draw... a 0/1 that drains the opponent a few times. They do trigger Regna but i'd rather find a card that is useful while also gaining life.
4) True, I'd love for a few more sac outlets but the ones that are free are very low impact (for example Viscera Seer ) and more combo-centric. I use to have Ayli in the deck and she might find a spot again but she's not impactful either on top of being expensive in use (this deck is mana hungry). I really hope for a card that fits in one of the other categories while also having a sac outlet but most of the times those cards are balanced by making the it cost "2B: sac a creature, do something" like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet .
Just as a generic comment, don't take my list as the best version of Orzhov midrange. Just because I don't play Path to Exile , doesn't mean I have something against the card and therefore you shouldn't either. Truth is, I'd love to play the card but I've stuffed so much in this deck that I have no idea what to cut to make room for it. Same with more sac outlets or pretty much any card in the extensive update history that you can read through. If I had the space, they would probably be in there. It's a curse (I want to play em all) and a blessing (my deck keeps evolving).
3 days ago
Then I don't think you need Countersquall , how about swap that for a Swords to Plowshares , Putrefy , Path to Exile , etc. I think you have a couple too many counterspells, in my Atraxa deck I don't play really any counterspells except for well Counterspell . I rely on Supreme Verdict , Damnation , Merciless Eviction , Swords to Plowshares , Assassin's Trophy , etc to remove threats rather than bother with trying to counter them. While, your not a control deck obviously, 1-2 boardwipes could nonetheless be useful. Then I figure there must be a reason that you don't have Cyclonic Rift in here right? Otherwise, Recoil is an easy swap.
I also feel that you can cut some of your other instant/sorceries that read … proliferate. Cards like Merciless Eviction , Supreme Verdict , might just serve you better. I think a little more ramp could be used here also, such as Simic Signet , Commander's Sphere , Fellwar Stone , Kodama's Reach / Cultivate and such (1-2 mana of these would help), So I think cutting a card like Contagion Clasp and or Temple Bell would be a good choice.
So, in summary I would cut some of these cards: Wanderer's Strike , Countersquall , Grim Affliction , Steady Progress , Juniper Order Ranger , Recoil , Temple Bell ( Otherworld Atlas could be more interesting, I use it in Nekusar, the Mindrazer :).
And add some of these, Scavenging Ooze , Flux Channeler , Winding Constrictor , Simic Signet , Orzhov Signet , Golgari Signet , Commander's Sphere (1-2 more mana rocks would help, Crystalline Crawler could also work maybe) Merciless Eviction , Cyclonic Rift , Putrefy , Swords to Plowshares , and Mortify .
Even though my list has been converted to superfriends now, you could have a look at it for some still possible ideas. I hope some of this helps.
6 days ago
To answer your questions:
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win? I'm in no way on the move to play a combo. Plus a 4 card combo in my opinion is maybe a bit janky to pull off. I don't have the feeling I miss the mana/ramp to include Pitiless Plunderer . Chainer, Izoni and Savra all stand on their own and perform a lot of work.
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ? Short answer? No. Craterhoof Behemoth is a typical go wide card. Most of the time I have around 3-4 creatures on the board. Craterhoof would do nothing for my deck.
I really liked your inclusion of Mindslicer . I just pulled one from my box last night and was planning to put it into the deck. Sheoldred, Whispering One had been on my radar for a while. Well credits for that one go to you, my friend. ;-) I had it in my binder and when you mentioned it I looked at it and went why not! Let's at least give it a try. Sheoldred, Whispering One is an all star and I would always run it in any meren deck.
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards. For now I don't have the feeling I'm running too much removal. The goal of the deck is pretty much winning the grind. So wiping the board + destroying and removing stuff is the main goal of this deck. I need to playtest waaaay more to figure out if I run too much. To look closer at the cards you mentioned. If I need to cut Damnation would be the first one. I just always have the feeling it's a welcome card to draw. Toxic Deluge is brilliant and it's an early boardwipe to disrupt our opponents. Living Death serves more as a reanimation card, then it is a boardwipe. My creatures are most of the time in the graveyard. It's basically a win con on it's own.
Could I make an argument that Imperial Seal is superior to Final Parting ? Would you include both? What would you cut? Superior, absolutely. It's basically another Vampiric Tutor . Unfortunately I'm not made of money and I simply don't own that card. That being said, most of my games I got to play Final Parting. And with Meren out on the table I would rather draw into a Final Parting then a Imperial Seal . Playing Final Parting means I get one card to my hand (any) and one creature to the battlefield at the end of our turn. That's where the power comes in from this tutor! Next to this. Imperial Seal is sorcery speed. So if we have no draw engine, we need to wait an entire turn. But if you have one laying around, I would just playtest them both a bit. See wich one feels better.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland? I love fetches and normally I stuff my deck full with them :). But in this deck I don't have the feeling I'm missing them too much. I have 5 decks and 3 of them run all the fetches they can. One is Omnath, Locus of Rage (dont think I need to explain). Queen Marchesa a control deck, so it's important I get my colors and shuffle effects. This deck is more, if I have green and black I'm good to go. The fetch is more there to go to my shock. If I had more lands that gave double color and that I could fetch I would run 1 more. In my opinion, 3+ color decks and decks that want their decks shuffled benefit more of fetches. It's a personal preference.
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient? Earthcraft I'm still in doubt on as well. I mentioned it at Control_Train as well. The card often feels a bit underused. But early game it helps to get my bigger dudes out faster. The card is not in there to be super abused since we often only have about 3-4 creatures on the field. So yeah you might be right on that. For now it stays in but it's on the shitlist.
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said? I totally agree with his argument. I own one copy of Gaea's Cradle and I run it in Omnath, Locus of Rage where it does all the work and really keep the engine going. In meren we probably will have a cradle tapping for 2-3 lategame. And tbh we don't need the ramp. Cradle is a super nice card, but it's a bit of the same argument why I don't run Craterhoof Behemoth
You didn't follow Control_Train's lead and cut Dread Return or Soul of the Harvest . As we speak I have my deck in front of me ;) And those 2 are laying outside of the deck. Now just checking what to put back in. Solemn Simulacrum is on it's way into the deck I think. Since he ramps and draws cards, but as you just mentioned I only run 13 basics and with also 2 other creatures who do so he might not be the strongest pick. I also laid out my curve and Birthing Pod might be on its way back in. Phyrexian Obliterator might also going back in, since he is a nice target to recur at 4 mana for a 5/5. It also stops people from attacking you. If you have any other good suggestions I would love to hear them!
What would you cut if you added Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves ? Do you not have issues with Meren getting removed? If you really want to play a sol ring maybe Dread Return ? Honestly I never really had the feeling I missed not having a sol ring in a deck. Lightning Greaves is maybe a good addition. The thing is with Sylvan Safekeeper he is recurrable. Lightning Greaves will definately get destroyed. Or at least in my meta people love blowing up boots/greaves. If you really want to play it, I think Prowling Serpopard if you run it now?
Dark Confidant in theory seems very dangerous in a deck with as high as a mana cost as this one. Am I way off base? The thing what makes Dark Confidant so good and for example Dark Tutelage absolute trash, is the fact that it's a creature. He is the one example where you don't want him to stick around. Enchantments stick around, creatures don't. Early game he is a powerhouse and an awesome target to dump in a meatgrinder after a few turns!
1 week ago
Ripwater, I really liked your input on Control_Train's Meren page.
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win?
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ?
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland?
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient?
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said?
1 week ago
Murphy77 Thank you so much for your suggestions!
You can totally build an EDH deck around turning lands into creatures. The deck would definitively run a lot of the ramp that I run in my deck. However in EDH with Wrath of God , Damnation and many more field wipes in existence it is a risky strategy. Eldrazi Monument would be an auto include for this idea as well as Ramunap Excavator and Crucible of Worlds .
As far as planeswalkers: If I were to build Simic Superfriends I would run Gilder Bairn , Deepglow Skate , and Doubling Season in addition to a lot of the Blue and/or Green planeswalkers. However as far as this deck I like winning too much off of Avenger of Zendikar , Rampaging Baloths and other landfall triggers. If I was to add in a lot of planeswalkers I feel that I would cut down on the lands matter synergy and end up weakening the deck as a whole. Not to say I wouldn't run a planeswalkers. If wizards printed a planeswalkers with a good + ability Kiora, the Crashing Wave 's -1 and and Nissa, Vital Force 's -6 ability or something similar I would totally run it. But as it stands there aren't any planeswalkers that fit the synergy of the deck enough for me to run with out changing to Simic Superfriends.
As for counterspells other then Force of Will which I would include if it cost less money. I have been considering Familiar's Ruse for the shenanigans that can be pulled with Eternal Witness and other ETB triggers. However I don't know if I have enough ETB triggers to justify it. I plan on testing it soon. Now that general tucking isn't a thing I typically try and not run counterspells over the CMC of 2 that don't have alternative casting costs. As for Rewind I would not run it in cEDH. But in a deck that can dump lands out and with Kruphix, God of Horizons 's ability to float mana on the opponent's end phase before your turn it is basically in this deck is a free counterspell and nine times out of ten you aren't losing the mana for.
Thanks again for the suggestions. I noticed you have a lot of standard and modern deck on your page. Are you thinking about getting into EDH? If you need any help I would be happy to help!
Damnation occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.08%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.09%
U/B (Dimir): 1.11%
U/B/R (Grixis): 0.55%