|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Rare|
|Planar Chaos (PLC)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
|Promo set for Gatherer (PSG)||Rare|
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Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated.
|Have (3)||, lorddarkstar , Luckeyawesome|
|Want (17)||ichliebedland , beastboyrolf23 , LordZZX , 801Hellfire , fnichols , rapha_seraph , Neettan , metalmustaine , metalriders , VonBears , jteck , Elynia , icefire033 , Isaia , Jbarino , TheBl0b , Asyriel|
2 days ago
SideBae This is some great advice! I appreciate all the help!
I like your thoughts on 2 mana rocks as opposed to 3 mana rocks. I'll be making a change there to increase the deck's speed.
You make a really good point about Approach of the Second Sun that I haven't thought about before. I'll most likely be cutting that in favor of another card that will help me with my deck's plan.
My budget doesn't really allow for the fast fetches but I didn't even know about the slow fetches! I'll be including some of those for sure. City of Brass , Mana Confluence , and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are some great suggestions too, I'll find room for them. When it comes to the land count, I'll try playing with different amounts, as I have some other decks with similar curve and a lower land count that can screw me sometimes.
I agree with your thoughts on card advantage, it's definitely very important. I've heard Varina, Lich Queen can produce a lot of card draw on her own, so I went a little light on the cards for that. After some playtesting I'll be able to see if I need to find some room for more card draw spells. One card in particular I was considering was Frantic Search , but I also like your suggestions a lot.
I agree that tutors are great cards, but I tried to limit myself with how many I was using when building this deck. In the past I've had decks with lots of tutors, and I found that it made my games always play the same. This time I wanted to try to cut down on that so I can see more of my deck and try to win with the tools available in the moment. This may also change after some playtesting too!
The Liliana's are great, Liliana, the Last Hope is a little out of my budget at the moment, but I'd love to find room for the other two.
I've definitely got my eye on Damnation and Toxic Deluge , I'd like to pick those up when I'm able to. My main reason for running the Anguished Unmaking and Utter End is the versatility they have. Any nonland permanent is really strong, and an exile is also great, due to the amount of graveyard-heavy decks in my playgroup. Another big reason for including them is to deal with problem cards that might be hard to deal with otherwise, such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void . These cards can show up pretty often in my group, and I'm worried their effects would completely shut off my deck. But again, I'll learn more once I playtest.
I wanted to include some more counter magic, but my downfall in deck building is always deciding what to cut. There's always too many things I want to include in the deck, and nothing I want to cut. Any suggestions to help with this?
I do have access to both Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render , and I was heavily considering playing Ashiok in the early stages of deck building. I'll be taking another look at those cards.
Patriarch's Bidding is definitely on my list of cards to eventually get, I can imagine how strong it would be in a deck like this. I hadn't thought of Living Death 's interaction with Wonder , hopefully that won't screw me up too often!
Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate all the suggestions!
2 days ago
My first suggestion involves your artifact ramp. Dimir Signet and Orzhov Signet are worse than Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Hierarchy in the majority of situations, mainly because they don't need mana to begin activating. Talisman of Progress is also worth considering, though I'm assuming blue and white are your lesser colors. In that vein, I suggest cutting Chromatic Lantern for another piece of two-mana artifact ramp. In my experience, there is a big difference between 2 and 3 mana rocks in EDH, and anything you can do to increase your deck's speed will be a good thing.
Considering the win conditions: I think Approach of the Second Sun is superfluous. In my experience, zombie decks are perfectly happy just trying to get away with the aggro win condition, though the Gravecrawler loops are certainly an interesting second. The problem with Approach of the Second Sun is that it is not good by itself; generally, you want to run combo pieces that also serve some utility even without the combo. (For example, this is why I hate the Isochron Scepter in my Kess, Dissident Mage list.) Drawing it in your opener or when you don't have the mana to cast it leaves it essentially dead, and I think the aggro or Gravecrawler plans are just better.
Once you hit three colors, mana base becomes extremely important. City of Brass and Mana Confluence are excellent cards, and I've had excellent luck with them. Ideally, you'd run fetch lands like Polluted Delta and Misty Rainforest as a sort of 'additional dual land,' but these can be very pricy. If that's an issue, I advise slow fetches like Bad River , Flood Plain , Rocky Tar Pit and Grasslands . Cavern of Souls is an expensive card, though it is excellent in any tribal deck -- if you have access to it, you should run it. Unclaimed Territory is another thing to consider, as is running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of one of your basic Swamp s. I also think you're running a few too many lands. Thirty-three is generally my upper limit, and since your curve is so high, I think that's about what you'd want. Thirty-five is too many.
I like that you're running zombie lords. Though anthem effects do greatly reduce the synergy of Gravecrawler with Skullclamp , I think their bonus to the aggro plan is high enough to justify their inclusion. In that vein, Lord of the Undead and Zombie Master are worth considering.
Card advantage decides most EDH games -- for example, yesterday I had someone concede not because I had pressure on the board, but because I was drawing five more cards than them a turn. Though this may have been a premature concession, it does illustrate my point. Thus, I highly recommend running cards like Graveborn Muse , Phyrexian Arena , Painful Truths , Chart a Course , Slate of Ancestry , Glimmer of Genius , Pulse of the Grid , Night's Whisper , Notion Thief , Thirst for Knowledge and/or Windfall . Similarly, cantrips like Ponder and Preordain are almost auto-includes in a blue list. Brainstorm 's efficacy is dependent on the number of shuffle effects you run, though if you choose to include fetches (slow or otherwise), I highly advise it. Many of these cards involve paying life; if life becomes an issue, try Whip of Erebos or a non-lethal Exsanguinate in addition to your Gray Merchant of Asphodel .
Tutors are good cards. I'm a fan of Entomb in addition to your Buried Alive , as it gets Gravecrawler in the yard for your combo and, if you pair it with reanimation like Reanimate , Animate Dead or the Victimize / Stitch Together you already run, it allows you to cheat in fatties. Grave Titan and Massacre Wurm are two of my favorite reanimation targets, but they're both around $20 these days. Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are the gold standard for black tutors, but these can also be inaccessible because of their price. Diabolic Tutor is a fine substitute, and I've had good success with Lim-Dul's Vault .
Liliana is also a good zombie-include, be it for flavor or for the power she offers. Liliana, Death's Majesty is great in zombie decks and is pretty affordable; Liliana, Dreadhorde General has been dropping in price recently and is also great. Depending on your playgroup's meta, Liliana, the Last Hope may be a powerhouse, though she is $40 these days.
Generally in EDH, one-for-ones are not where you want to be. There are usually three opponents, so on average you'll be facing 3x as many cards as you have. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are good cards, but they are not as good in EDH as they'd be in 1v1 formats. Supreme Verdict and Merciless Eviction , which I see you're running, are better. Might I suggest Damnation , Wrath of God , and/or Toxic Deluge ? You may want to lean toward black board-wipes, as this is already where your mana will be when casting zombies. An overloaded Cyclonic Rift is also great, especially if paired with the aforementioned Windfall .
Perpetual Timepiece is a cool include. Consider Cephalid Vandal . Because you're not running Call to the Grave (which I think is overrated anyways), there is little to no cost of running non-zombie creatures in your deck. I think Cephalid Vandal is another good way of trying to keep your deck churning with self-mill.
Another thing that takes good EDH decks to the next level is counter magic. I see you're running Counterspell , which is good, but you should consider running at least three to four other counter spells as well. Force of Will , Mana Drain and Pact of Negation are all good if you want to sell a kidney. If you're a slightly more reasonable player, cards like Narset's Reversal , Negate / Countersquall / Dovin's Veto , Swan Song , Disallow , Arcane Denial and Archmage's Charm are also worth considering.
Depending on your meta (and your personal level of sadism), Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render should be considered. Turning off tutors and extra-draws with asymmetrical effects is brutal. Personally, I don't think those two cards should ever have been printed, but what the hell -- they're here, so we might as well use them.
Patriarch's Bidding is a good way for a tribal deck to recover after a board-wipe, and Living Death is just good for black creature decks in general. Living Death is a sort of nonbo with Wonder , but that may be worth the trouble; play-testing will iron that issue out.
Good luck man!
3 days ago
There are a couple cards I would suggest. Some of them are a bit more pricey tho.
- Felidar Guardian
- Gilded Drake $$
- Gonti, Lord of Luxury
- Hostage Taker
- Perplexing Chimera
- Ravenous Chupacabra
- Reflector Mage
- Sun Titan
- Torrential Gearhulk
- Venser, Shaper Savant
- Leonin Relic-Warder
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- Anguished Unmaking
- Generous Gift
- Path to Exile
- Swords to Plowshares
- Rapid Hybridization
- Reality Shift
- Swan Song
- Mystical Tutor
- Enlightened Tutor $
- Vampiric Tutor $$
- Eerie Interlude
- Animate Dead
- Dance of the Dead
- Imprisoned in the Moon
- Oath of Teferi
- Mystic Remora
- Rhystic Study $
- Smothering Tithe
- Ghostly Prison
- Fellwar Stone
- Mind Stone
- Thought Vessel
- Talisman of Dominance
- Talisman of Progress
- Talisman of Hierarchy
- Mana Vault $
- Sensei's Divining Top $
I hope these suggestions are of some help to you. Many of the cards are simply upgrades of the weaker removal/ramp/draw cards contained in the precon.
If you want to make the deck more competitive, cards like The Chain Veil or Felidar Guardian can outright win the game in combination with Altar of the Brood or Vela the Night-Clad .
5 days ago
First of all, great list! I have been thinking about building around this commander myself for quite some time now as I found this list on Reddit. You were asking for critique/suggestions so here we go:
The new land Field of the Dead seems like a great utility land for this deck, essentially turning all your infinite mana combos also into infinite creatures. It also seems like a solid target to blink for value.
Animate Dead but neither Dance of the Dead nor Necromancy ? If you don't want that many recurion spells I personally would opt to run Necromancy . It costs 1 mana more than Animate Dead , but it can be played at instant speed, if needed.
I know, it's a bit boring, but how about Rhystic Study ? Also maybe Smothering Tithe ?
Propaganda but no Ghostly Prison ?
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver seems way less optimal than the new Ashiok . He also can infinitely mill your opponents, while providing graveyard hate instead of a mediocre creature steal ability.
Dark Confidant is a great card overall, but I wonder why he is in this deck specifically. He is the only creature in the deck that has no synergy with flickering.
Rona, Disciple of Gix seems very inefficient to me.
I get that you only play the Singets and Talismans that make blue mana, but the deck has only very few ramp pieces (I count 7), so I think Orzhov Signet and Talisman of Hierarchy would be great inclusions. Also have you considered cards like Mana Vault ?
No Path to Exile ?
Disenchant seems out of place. I would replace it with something like Leonin Relic-Warder .
Eerie Interlude but no Ghostway ?
You should definitely play Glen Elendra Archmage instead of Negate .
I know it's pricy, but have you considered Vampiric Tutor (or even more extreme: Imperial Seal )?
This deck is quite boardwipe light for a more control oriented strategy that can, on top of it, save some of it's creatures by temorarily exiling them. Terminus seems especially great, other than that just the classics: Wrath of God , Day of Judgment , Damnation .
These are all my thoughts on the deck, I hope there was something in there that is useful to you ;)
1 week ago
1 week ago
You can always run disruption to slow your opponents down so your deck has more time to set up a win condition. Hall of Gemstone and Contamination mess with multicoloured decks and with a good set of mana dorks you won't be nearly as affected. Both of these enchantments also prevent interaction from your opponent on your turn disabling counter spells and other instant speed removal.
If aggro is more prevalent in your meta run some more fogs other than the fog-frog. Spike Weaver and Arachnogenesis are some serious powerhouses that can prevent combat and give you a board to work with.
The biggest leg up most decks have over Meren is the constant use of artifacts, so disrupt them. Bane of Progress is the quick and easy hail Mary for this problem but often can be stopped by Torpor orb so I would suggest including some of the following: Caustic Caterpillar , Thrashing Brontodon , Abrupt Decay , Collector Ouphe (I really like this one), Manglehorn , Return to Nature , Root Maze , Viridian Corrupter .
Meren is my GF's favourite deck so I see the damn thing ALL THE TIME. The deck's biggest weakness is the fact that most of the deck is at sorcery speed so there are some cards to include to make it a whole lot faster. Vivien, Champion of the Wilds , Vedalken Orrery , and Yeva, Nature's Herald make most of your deck instant speed which is HUGE, essentially granting psuedo haste and protection from sorcery speed board wipes. Speaking of which...
Where are your board wipes? I know Damnation and Toxic Deluge are expensive but there are some fantastic creatures that acts as wipes as well. Demon of Dark Schemes , Massacre Wurm , and Night Incarnate are small board wipes on bodies that you can abuse.
1 week ago
This deck looks nice. I think Lightning Skelemental could be nice as a way to drain your opponents resources early, and win late-game. Along that line, Thunderkin Awakener bring him back, but also brings back the Fulminator, meaning more land destruction!
3 weeks ago
You can, if you like, create custom sort categories by adding a # in your edit list (eg. "1x City of Brass #Land") and then setting >Edit >Default category >Custom
Here are some houses:
Herald of Secret Streams ... where'd this go?
Dack's Duplicate ... +1/+1 clone
Spark Double ... +1/+1 clone
Mulldrifter ... if is too much then play this
Treasonous Ogre ... seems good
Reef Worm ... endless worms
Spawning Pit ... you can sacrifice the Spawn tokens to recoup 1/2 the value if they're wiped
Yahenni, Undying Partisan ... it never leaves the board so expect 10+/10+
Toothy, Imaginary Friend ... yes
Midnight Reaper ... yes
Burnished Hart ... do not underestimate this
Goblin Bombardment ... yes
You could also try playing some big beefs that are wipe oriented like...
To play aggressively, Marchesa needs evasive creatures with double strike ...or maybe even...
Flesh-Eater Imp ... I have one, you should try it out
Grafted Exoskeleton ... sacrifice might be nice
Viral Drake ... proliferating your +1/+1 counters would be pretty sweet
...Keep in mind Infect replaces damage so either make it a core theme or only play the ones that can get to 10 Infect quickly.
Demons would also be pretty sweet:
Defiler of Souls ... make them sacrifice
Demon of Wailing Agonies ... make them sacrifice
Havoc Demon ... wipe
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder ... draw to get off the throne?
Krav, the Unredeemed ... seems good
Lord of the Void ... betrayal
Malfegor ... wipe?
Rakdos, the Showstopper ... wipe
Reaper from the Abyss ... removal
Rune-Scarred Demon ... tutor
Silent-Blade Oni ... betrayal
Liliana's Contract ... hilarous
Damnation occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.08%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.09%
UB (Dimir): 1.11%
UBR (Grixis): 0.55%