|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Common|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Common|
|Tempest Remastered (TPR)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Speed vs Cunning (DDN)||Common|
|2012 Core Set (M12)||Common|
|2011 Core Set (M11)||Common|
|Ninth Edition (9ED)||Common|
|Ninth Edition Foreign Black Border (9EDFBB)||Common|
|Eighth Edition (8ED)||Common|
|Promo set for Gatherer (PSG)||Common|
|Promo Set (000)||Common|
Combos Browse all
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
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Mana Leak Discussion
22 hours ago
its not about grand prix's dude! even at just the fnm level, Mana Leak is absolutely better than Cancel. if you're playing at fnm, you ARE playing at fast speeds. you really are. for all you know, you could be paired against Storm or Grishoalbrand decks that win on turn 2. or someone could attack you with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on turn 3. YOU are the one that said you might take it to fnm, and if you really think that even just the fnm level isn't going to still be full of a bunch of meta netdecks, you're kidding yourself. the idea that "one isnt better than the other" is just blatantly false. i do understand the intent of the deck, but thats no reason not to at least TRY to make it somewhat decent. you really just aren't getting it. tell ya what. go to a modern fnm tonight, and ask 10 random modern players (who actually look like they know what they're doing, and not some 10 year old kid) which is better. i 100,000% guarantee you 10/10 say Mana Leak. if someone by chance does say they think Cancel is better, check their win: loss record at the end of the night. they'll probably be 1:3, or 1:4 if theres 5 rounds.
i also find it hilarious how you say "im not playing at those speeds" and then immediately follow it with "one isn't better than the other". the 2 statements directly contradict each other, because saying "im not playing at those speeds" is literally acknowleding that Mana Leak is better.
23 hours ago
DankStompy Right, and as I’ve said, I’m absolutely not playing at those kinds of speeds. Again, I’m not at the Grand Prix. I see lots of Cancels in use and lots of Mana Leak. One isn’t better than the other, they both have a draw back and I prefer the draw back of having to pay one more mana for a definite counter. Telling me games are won by turn 4 is a null point because they absolutely aren’t for me and for most of the people that would be interested in something like this. It literally does not apply. This is deck making with a handicap purely for the fun of it. Again, if I was trying to make this actually efficient, I would not be using only Walls. I don’t think you at all understand the intent behind this.
23 hours ago
look dude the simple fact of the matter is that Mana Leak is just plain better than Cancel. thats why Mana Leak is basically the #2 counter spell in all of modern, right behind Remand, while Cancel never sees play at all. you can't argue results. even if the spell you're trying to counter costs a measly 2 mana, an opponent would need 5 lands to get around your Mana Leak. that makes it a turn 5 play in a format where games are usually won or locked down by turn 4. the 1 mana cost reduction is actually a lot bigger than you seem to think. your deck has 0 creatures that cost 1 mana. meaning if it is impossible in your deck to play a creature, AND save mana up for Cancel on your turn 4. with Mana Leak, on turn 4 you can play a 2 mana creature AND still mana for a counterspell.
23 hours ago
if you've had Mana Leak fail on you, it wasnt at modern fnm.
23 hours ago
DankStompy I’m using the Modern format and ban list. And may take it to a shop for a bit of fun or something. Again, just not about to win the Grand Prix.
It does, but I want my counters to serve as counters first and draw second. Also, I’ve very much had Mana Leak fail on me before and at that point I’m wasting my mana just as much as they are.
What I’m trying to do is make a deck with all Walls, so that’s not gonna fly.
23 hours ago
then label this deck as casual, not as modern. but Remand also lets you draw a card. and in modern, its not often someone actually has the 3 mana to pay to Mana Leak. Remand and Mana Leak see modern use over Cancel for a reason. i never said your deck had to be the "most efficient ever", im just sayin that currently, its not efficient at all.
for what you're trying to do, you want BWG for Doran, the Siege Tower. and even then, you don't want walls. just low cost creatures with high toughness.
1 day ago
DankStompy I mean, if I was looking for the most efficient deck ever I wouldn't be using only Wall creatures in the first place. It's not about to go win any tournaments, it's a gimmicky stupid wall deck for casual play. So maybe try not to hold it to that kind of breakneck speed and high efficiency. In my play group a turn 7 win is about what you'd expect. Much longer, actually, since we usually have more than 2 players. This deck isn't gonna be facing off any turn 3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn anytime soon.
Also, I like Cancel because it actually gets rid of the spell, unlike Remand which pretty much just delays the spell and Mana Leak which doesn't even guarantee a successful counter. Worth spending the one extra mana to me.
Also, also, Twisted Image doesn't work on Wall of Denial due to its Shroud. One of the things thats making me consider replacing it. Just don't know what with. Wall of Frost is probably the hardest hitter.
If you have a better Wall in mind, I'd love to hear it.
1 day ago
Door of Destinies is far too slow for modern. why Cancel instead of Remand or Mana Leak? Rolling Stones and Twisted Image are basically useless here since your creatures have 0 or 1 power. btw even if you do attack with Fog Bank, it can't deal damage. where are the fetchlands and shocklands?
in a best case scenario, you could hope to win turn 7, which is incredibly slow for modern.
T1-T3: cast Rolling Stones
T4: cast Door of Destinies
T5: cast Wall of Denial. it'll be a 1/9
thats just far too slow, and again thats a "best" case scenario. only Wall of Denial has enough toughness to win by turn 7. the deck is just simply too fragile. keep in mind modern games are usually decided by turn 4. a person could be attacking you with an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn on turn 3.