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|Masters 25 (A25)||Rare|
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Rare|
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Combos Browse all
Blue Sun's Zenith
Target player draws X cards. Shuffle Blue Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
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Blue Sun's Zenith Discussion
1 week ago
First of all, I like your idea of gaining life in tandem with card draw. Life for the sake of life buys time, but that is about it.
Second, your mana curve is not bad either (and congrats on keeping it 60 cards!). You have a rough equivalency of white and blue cards paired with a rough equivalency of land.
That being said, I see a lot of cards of which you only have one copy. There is a value in being flexible, but you also must have a pretty solid strategy. Gaining life and drawing cards is great, but you have to have something to do with it. So, I would cut some of the cards with one copy (consider how often they actually come up in your games). Put 4 copies of a card (1 drawn about every 15 cards) that you want to see each and every game, 2 copies of cards you want most games, and 1 copy of cards that give you a good benefit even if the opponent destroys it the next turn (although counterspells help that a little). If there is a one-copy card you just cant convince yourself to get rid of, put it in your sideboard and try it out for a few games.
I would cut (blank) for the following reasons:
Evolving wilds: You generally don't need that in a 2 color deck, you'd rather have an untapped land. Pristine Talisman: Unless you can get 2 or 4 copies in your deck, if not, sideboard it. Felidar Cub: sideboard it and replace it with another Erase. Djeru's Renunciation: Replace with a "Bounce" Spell like Boomerang. Works offensively and defensively
As far as card suggestions go, pick your poison.... More: Mana Leak, Rune Snag, Reliquary Tower Some: Divinity of Pride, Soul Warden, Suture Priest, Angelic Accord, Tranquil Cove, Dictate of Kruphix, Blue Sun's Zenith, Rapid Hybridization, Spellbook, Whispersilk Cloak, Aqueous Form
TL;DR Don't build the deck too "flat" by having only one copy of essential cards, sideboard what you cant cut, and add some of these low-cost options to the deck. Remember: a lean deck is a successful deck. You can also get some good benefits from Scroll Thief if you can give it lifelink. Paired with Aqueous Form, you get a good glimpse of your top card before you draw it. Mana flooded? Scry it away! Mana thirsty? Scry away the high cost spell you would draw!
3 weeks ago
Short answer; Yes and no. It's certainly possible to win via non-infinite combat with the deck as it is, I had to resort to that several times. However it's unreliable way to win with this type of deck.
A bit more elaborate answer; It's possible because the deck can use combat damage to enforce a clock, backed up by Maze of Ith and Minamo, School at Water's Edge to keep Kefnet untapped for defense. However this approach is much slower and has a much wider interaction window. This means that it would be quite hard to keep a tight grip on the game long enough for this plan to work. Additional problem is that interacting for such long period of time (multiple turns) makes it really hard to maintain a 7-card hand size and you can be easily forced to stop the progress because of that. So despite that approach being possible, it would bend more than a few paradigms that shaped up the deck in this form.
If this list is "just" too combo-oriented for your taste, you could try my budget build (KefNOT the Controlfreak; saying "no" on a budget). This one has combos, but it's less about going into Blue Sun's Zenith combo and more about attacking and chaining turns.
If you really dislike combos or such combos are outright banned in your meta, you can;
1) try a more voltron-ish build. There are many Kefnet lists around that are more combat-oriented while keeping some control elements, predominantly in the form of counters. Though they share a commander with my deck(s), these play quite differently from my build.
2) you could give a shot to Dragonlord Ojutai. If we remove the "combo" pillar of my 3-pillar control commander theory, you're left with good body and card advantage engine. Dragonlord Ojutai fills both these roles. With built-in protection in the form of conditional hexproof and a 5/5 flying body, your life total is quite safe. And his Anticipate trigger is an awesome way to keep up with the table. This Anticipate trigger is also a good motivation to attack with your commander. And if you give it vigilance (or untap it using Maze of Ith or Minamo, School at Water's Edge), you got yourself a solid clock with good card advantage. Plus you get an additional good color for control, UW even has a decent manabase on a budget.
I hope this answer will be of help to you. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask and I'll try my best to help.
3 weeks ago
Your deck includes a lot of ways to get infinite mana, but only 3, maybe 4, ways to use that infinite mana. We'd add some spells that would allow you to draw your deck with that kind of mana. Spells that come to mind are:
That brings us to the deck's ability to draw cards in general. It literally has no cards that allow for extra draw. To us, this seems a rather bad thing, considering that you're playing blue and you're relying on combo's (and the cards to tutor for them) to win. Then again, the deck does contain about twelve tutor cards, so maybe it works like this. Let's just say we would at the least recommend adding something like Rhystic Study, Sensei's Divining Top or Scroll Rack and maybe add some cheap instants/sorceries for draw like Ponder, Preordain or Brainstorm.
The final main problem; countering/removal. The deck doesn't have any, and you do need at least some. Not having any of it can be bad for a number of reasons. Just as examples, opposing players can steal Sen Triplets or cast a card like Stranglehold to prevent you from tutoring. There's many more creative ways to screw around with combo decks. Therefore, we would advise you to include at least some forms of removal/countering like Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Swan Song, Counterspell, etc.
Well, we hope all this is useful to you and that we weren't being too preachy :) Good luck with the deck!
With kind regards,
Mr. and Mrs. NV_1980
3 weeks ago
So, i haven't been working on that tappedout list for ages, my list doesn't look like that anymore, but the infinite mana is mostly to use Capsize to bounce all oponent's stuff or Stroke of Genius ( that i replaced by Blue Sun's Zenith ) to make my oponents draw they entire library +1 and die.
4 weeks ago
Asder Yep agreed, I miss read Cerebral Vortex. Thought it worked like a reverse Fateful Showdown. Thanks for point that out! Replaced it with Tandem Lookout. Kinda iffy on Omniscience though. Might rethink it later.
SandwichMan007 Nah, not for this deck. Great card though.
Katscratch Yes, thats a great addition. Any suggestion on cuts?
the__odysseus Also a great addition, but I would like a suggestion for a cut as well.
SenseiRamen Super great idea, just not sure how often it will go off. One card a turn for 5 is a bit iffy.
1 month ago
Propaganda, Frozen AEther, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Blue Sun's Zenith, Windfall, Wheel and Deal, Relic of Progenitus, Ambassador Laquatus, Jace, Memory Adept, and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver might be good.
1 month ago
Can I just say that Memnarch is bad. If your play group doesn't like combo then they won't like Memnarch. The risk/reward profile is way too high for it as a card. It draws far too much hate for the value it generates. Plus outside of combo it is clunky and terrible.
The other issue is that Memnarch is not an "I win" button like USZ is. Just like Villainous Wealth, you haven't actually won the game yet. You still need to do something with him. Yes. I know that you control all the permanents on the battlefield however if you're going to combo, you may as well just play something that outright wins.
On the topic of Blue Sun's Zenith vs Mind Spring, inside of combo USZ is much better. Once you have drawn your deck it will be the only card left in it and your hand will be full of defender creatures. Simply cast one of them, draw USZ and then play it. Then rinse and repeat for all the rest of the opponents at the table. With Mind Spring, you need to set up some sort of graveyard recursion loop which you may not be able to do if Eternal Witness is in the yard.
1 month ago
I like that idea, except I would play Mind Spring instead because it is card draw and you always want card draw weather you have infinite mana or not and memnark is way too durdly without making 100s of mana and doesn't support the walls theme, while Mind Spring will draw walls and help after a board wipe.
Also since you should be playing eternal witness I don't think the shuffle into deck on Blue Sun's Zenith is worth drawing 1 less card most of the time, and as I said, you should be able to win with infinite mana and your deck in your hand no matter what, throw in a haste effect like createrhoof or concorted crossroads if you wand to garauntee winning, (unless someone responds by playing Terminus on your turn. If you suspect something like this or if someone may have a fog (or just always because why not), draw all but 1 card of your deck, then first thing you do is play Eternal Witness to get back your mind spring in case you have to rebuild from something like a combat trick into Hallowed Burial, or if people play Vedalken Orrery. While this is unlikely, I have hosed people by doing this before and there is no reason not to be safe. Another option is Temur Sabertooth which does silly things when you have absurd amounts of mana by duplicating etb effects like createrhoof.