|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Rare|
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Rare|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Rare|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged (MBS)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged: Mirran (MBM)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Blue Sun's Zenith
Target player draws X cards. Shuffle Blue Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
|Have (8)||metalmagic , , sonnet666 , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , rockleemyhero , _raeofsunlight , TheRealSpecialK , simicstudent|
|Want (8)||passmethattea , DrAftertaste , energyforest , decaprez3 , Raediaent , Jearbear3211 , Morelly , Clcarper07|
Blue Sun's Zenith Discussion
1 day ago
"One-card wincons" to consider: Insurrection , Expropriate , Painful Quandary , Rise of the Dark Realms , Revel in Riches , Cut / Ribbons . Perhaps Clone Legion , Rite of Replication , Mogis, God of Slaughter , Hour of Promise , Blatant Thievery , Grave Betrayal , or Mind's Dilation .
One thing to think about is getting Nicol Bolas flipped and maybe joined by the other planeswalkers and casting Obliterate , Jokulhaups , Devastation , or Decree of Annihilation . Almost guaranteed ultimates. Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God would be the best--proxy for now and include in first build?
Boardwipes: Toxic Deluge , Black Sun's Zenith , Hour of Devastation , Decree of Pain , Curse of the Swine , In Garruk's Wake , Deadly Tempest , Evacuation , Nevinyrral's Disk , Last One Standing , Perilous Vault , Oblivion Stone , Kindred Dominance , Necromantic Selection , Subterranean Tremors
Removal: Capsize , Bedevil , Hero's Downfall , Chaos Warp , Kolaghan's Command , Reality Shift , Pongify , Rapid Hybridization , Vraska's Contempt , Rakdos Charm , Price of Fame , In Bolas's Clutches , Plaguecrafter , Merciless Executioner , Fleshbag Marauder , Unstable Obelisk , Vandalblast , By Force , Shatterstorm , Hostage Taker , Yawgmoth's Vile Offering , Settle the Score , Dark Impostor , Hour of Glory , Sever the Bloodline , Silence the Believers , Spread the Sickness , Slave of Bolas , Electrodominance
Draw: (I would add Erebos once you're home) Patient Rebuilding , Phyrexian Arena , Greed , Arguel's Blood Fast Flip, Notion Thief , Windfall , Mystical Tutor , Blue Sun's Zenith , Pull from Tomorrow , Stroke of Genius , Braingeyser , Mind Spring , Expansion / Explosion , Invoke the Firemind , Deliver Unto Evil , Augur of Bolas , Painful Truths , Fevered Visions , Search for Azcanta Flip, Fact or Fiction , Dig Through Time , Treasure Cruise , Tidings , Thassa, God of the Sea , Day's Undoing , Reforge the Soul , Standstill , Deep Analysis , Necrologia , Steady Progress , Tezzeret's Gambit , Oath of Jace
Random utility: Ophiomancer , Metallurgic Summonings , As Fortold, Pendrell Mists , No Mercy , Stranglehold , Fated Return , Dark Intimations , Spellseeker , Sire Of Insanity , Thief of Sanity , Spark Double , Primal Amulet Flip, Dragon's Hoard , Mystic Retrieval , Shreds of Sanity , Spelltwine , Ashiok, Dream Render , Torpor Orb , Baleful Strix , Darksteel Myr , Solemn Simulacrum , Wayfarer's Bauble , Vedalken Orrery , Saheeli, Sublime Artificer , Will Kenrith , Mana Geyser , Gem of Becoming , Thran Dynamo , Narset, Parter of Veils , Keranos, God of Storms , Thrilling Encore , Star Compass , Coldsteel Heart , Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs , Ensnaring Bridge , Crawlspace , Expedition Map , Burnished Hart , Torment of Scarabs , Cruel Reality , Mnemonic Betrayal , Yawgmoth's Will , Bloodchief Ascension , Nightscape Familiar , Gonti, Lord of Luxury , Thaumatic Compass Flip, Dreadhorde Invasion , Fraying Omnipotence , Thrummingbird , Viral Drake , Past in Flames , Mizzix's Mastery , Omniscience , Tainted AEther , Aid the Fallen , Deepglow Skate , Flux Channeler , Rings of Brighthearth , Silent Arbiter , Meekstone , Mudslide , Astral Cornucopia , Everflowing Chalice , Lethal Vapors , Sunbird's Invocation , Stolen Strategy , Maze of Ith , Spreading Plague , Merchant Scroll , Polluted Bonds , Black Market , Grave Upheaval , Memory Plunder , Pain Magnification
Beaters: Dragonlord Silumgar , The Scorpion God , The Locust God , The Scarab God , God-Eternal Kefnet , God-Eternal Bontu , Darksteel Colossus , Colossus of Akros , Visara the Dreadful , Tsabo Tavoc , Avatar of Woe , Balefire Dragon , Nicol Bolas , Hellkite Tyrant , Bladewing the Risen , Grave Titan , Inferno Titan , Steel Hellkite , Vampire Nighthawk , Torrential Gearhulk , Noxious Gearhulk , Combustible Gearhulk , Dominus of Fealty , Roil Elemental , Tidespout Tyrant , Kokusho, the Evening Star , Keiga, the Tide Star , Ryusei, the Falling Star , Wrexial, the Risen Deep , Etali, Primal Storm , Nezahal, Primal Tide , Tetzimoc, Primal Death , Dread , The Haunt of Hightower , Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind , Razaketh, the Foulblooded , Enigma Drake , Crackling Drake , Archfiend of Depravity , Sheoldred, Whispering One , Thing in the Ice Flip, Niv-Mizzet, Parun , Sepulchral Primordial , Molten Primordial , Diluvian Primordial , Ob Nixilis, Unshackled , Sire of Stagnation , Utvara Hellkite
1 day ago
So you only really have one way to win and that's Blue Sun's Zenith +infinite mana and that only lets you kill one player or draw your own deck and then, assuming you haven't used them yet, Demonic Tutor for it and then Mystical Teachings for it twice. I'm wondering if you would consider running another way to win with infinite mana. There are many to choose from. The deck is really competitive, but you may want to add in another winon.
2 days ago
Why run Stroke over something like Blue Sun's Zenith ? Mana cost doesn't matter in a mono-colored and with infinite mana you can cast for 100 targeting opponent A, exile again, cast for 100 targeting B, exile again, cast for 100 targeting C.
3 days ago
Some of my favourite cards in my Mizzix deck are Contentious Plan and Steady Progress . I prefer Stroke of Genius over Blue Sun's Zenith since the colored mana required to cast it really is a hinderance sometimes. Time Stretch is also a pretty easy way to win with Mizzix. But might not be the way how you want to win. And I prefer playing normal basics over all those slow fetches. The deck thinning in a 100 card deck is negligible and you get to play one of my favourite lands Terrain Generator to ramp with lands, which the deck desperatly wants.
1 week ago
last laugh - OK, I guess I missed that first part of the text. I put it onto my buy list a while back and when my FLNGS got it in for me I wasn't sure what to do with it exactly. So I guess I will find a spot to swap something out for it. Got any ideas of what to take out for it? I only have a few infinite combos and I have a lot of utility stuff. I am not sure if I wanna remove a mana rock, but I might take out Everflowing Chalice for a Grim Monolith if I get one soon. Maybe take out the puzzle box or Blue Sun's Zenith or a Mindmoil ? Getting harder to figure out what I want in and what I want out. I def want the infinite combos or what few of them there are in the deck, but I am not sure if I have just the right amount or too many hand cycle cards in here lol.
OMG, lol. I just realized something I haven't before. Tolarian Winds on a scepter plus Paradox Engine if I have a mana rock out. Come to think of it I think I had paradox engine out when I had the beta version of this way before I had accumulated most of the cards I needed for it. Since I don't believe in making decks with cards I don't actually own, or at least I have stopped doing such my deck has gone a ton of changes since then. Use to have no infinite combos and no hand swapping cards and no mana rocks and almost all of the cards in it use to be pay like 1-4 mana and draw like 2 cards etc.
1 week ago
I wound up cutting Blue Sun's Zenith and Stroke of Genius from my list. If I get them off Urza's exile ability they don't do anything as a win con which leaves me hard playing them (which I would be fine with in other decks, but this deck can win in so many ways as long as the engine is running) and usually playing them for "value" earlier in a game where the value I found in testing so far wasn't an ideal fit. If the deck is already pumping with it's engine and can loop the graveyard and library (with Narset's Reversal and Timetwister for example) then it can win just by looping a Pongify , Rapid Hybridization , Swan Song or Chain of Vapor on Urza repeatedly. All of those spells double as interaction as well as win cons and are lower on the curve than BSZ and SoG. Likewise, I found Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to be essentially a dead card at all points. Instead I've found that changing more of those card slots into just being things that start the engine running was more useful.
Also something to think about on the Null Rod note: Karn, the Great Creator accomplishes the same effective task of shutting off opposing artifacts while also doubling as resiliency and removal. If an opponent exiles Paradox Engine or your other artifact based combo pieces you can grab them back from exile (face up or down exile to boot!). If you just don't want your opponents to have a zero cmc artifact then you can plus Karn and send that Mana Crypt to the crypt. Sure it was already turned off, but if they kill Karn later that Mana Crypt won't turn back on while Null Rod can't say the same. Having the same stax effect, but asymmetrical by design, attached to better utility totally justified the higher cmc in my book and it has worked well for me so far in testing.
I'm working with this list here: Looper, if you'd care to have a look and drop some thoughts or maybe find some inspiration.
1 week ago
I understand the reasoning behind the lack of 2 cmc rocks, but I also really like not having to worry as much about recasting Urza if he gets countered/destroyed. I haven't tested it, but on paper it seems a bit more safe.
I also really dislike Recurring Insight. Why not just use Urza's last ability more times with that mana? I've playtested this build multiple times now and tbh I've never drawn more than 4-5 cards (and that's casting the card in two different games). It just seems really bad.
Additionally, I think that Rings+Basalt+Power Artifact should be added in. There's a lot of synergy to be found in the cards and easy wins pop out when you cast them. I can understand the reasoning behind inclusions like Future Sight and Jeweled Amulet (especially after playtesting them), but the deck feels weird without those strong cards.
My CEDH for the last 3-4 years was Arcum, and the builds of the decks, in my eyes, were going to be quite similar. Obviously, different wincons, but ramping into a 4 cmc general that, if left unanswered, would win. It feels strange to be playing a Mono-U artifact-based deck that doesn't run some of these cards.
Lastly, your primer mentions winning with a Teferi ult but no teferi is found in the deck. Also, another budget option for timetwister (at least based on my playtesting) is Echo of Eons . I kinda understand your reasoning for replacing twister with Stroke of Genius , but the cards seem to fill different purposes, hitting it off an uzra activation seems really bad, and why not just run Blue Sun's Zenith ? Time Spiral may also be worth looking into. The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale needs a) a budget replacement or b) to just be cut in general. It's not the worst thing in the list at all but has some major issues that others have mentioned in the comments. Also, Trinisphere is obviously really good, but don't you have to tap it during your turn to not be affected by it? And if so, wouldn't that make it not work on your opponents' turn? (Without unwinding clock, of course.) You also have Impulse and Copy Artifact in the main and maybeboards.
I think there's still some work to be done with this list. After playtesting, I wish I had a bit more creature removal and less instances when I just durdle out. I hope to see some changes!
Last thing: snow-covered lands are for people who run Extraplanar Lens or what?
2 weeks ago
Like it so far. I think you could cut the land count down a bit. Even in my land-matters themed Tat build, I'm at 37, looking to go to 36. Lands on the battlefield is never a problem. I think you could cut Telling Time , Opt , and Brainstorm . They help you did a little, but I think you'd be better off with cards that will synergize more with what Taty wants to do. Broken Bond , Kodama's Reach , Cultivate , Summer Bloom , all work well with Taty, or with ramping into Taty.
I tend to run quite a few budget option cards that tend to be group-hug in my build, but bringing a bit of group-hug to the table doesn't bother me all that much. Some people don't like playing cards that benefit other players, though, so its up to you and your play style. Ghirapur Orrery , Rites of Flourishing , and Horn of Greed help my deck go. I can't afford the high-priced staples like Oracle of Mul Daya and Azuza, Lost but Seeking a reprint.
Since you are running Laboratory Maniac , you might consider running some win-cons for him. Stroke of Genius and Blue Sun's Zenith are great for this. The new Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is also good for another copy of the card.
I like the start you have here so far. Consider what you want the deck's goal to be. Landfall shenanigans? Hand-size matters? Bouncing for value? Consider which way you want to focus, and that will help you bring the deck together.
Blue Sun's Zenith occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.05%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.08%
UR (Izzet): 1.0%
GU (Simic): 0.7%