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Akroma's Vengeance Discussion
3 days ago
Themes Blue/White Good Stuff UWgud Stax Your things cost less, theirs cost more. ETB Mill Pillowfort
Cards to cut or just don't do enough Slow Motion, Stormscape Familiar, Select for Inspection (too Specific), Etherium Sculptor (Not justifiable), Mindshrieker, Burnished Hart (Look, we all love this stupid Elk, but he sits at a slot where you need to have around that much mana up for counter spells. You really only want to be spending that type of mana to reduce your costs or increase opponents costs or stop them from attacking you. Else, counterspells. Two mana ramp is what you are looking for, ideally, not six spread over two turns), Jace's Archivist(I like this card a lot, and I think it's great with things like Thousand-Year Elixir, but realistically you want to be sculpting the perfect control hand all game rather than tossing it away.), Rhystic Study(Great card, but not $8 great. Mostly priced based on popularity. Budget choice for you, you don't need it). Temple Bell (Fun card, but too beneficial for your opponents. Don't spend mana to speed other's race, that's the opposite goal of the deck.), Cataclysm (I don't see why you have this other than as a combo with As Foretold.), Entrapment Maneuver, Hindering Touch, Leave in the Dust, Sleep(Only beneficial against creature decks), Psychic Spiral(You have to devote yourself to wheel for this card to work well, and wheel arguably doesn't help your deck.), Sunder(This combos only with As Foretold), Isperia, Supreme Judge (Costs six, his only creature decks, they don't have to attack you, there is better card draw.), Sphinx of Magosi, Silent Sentinel (Requires attack and arguably not enough enchantments).
You have a pretty decent Stax and 'Don't touch me there' package going on here, but not a whole lot of direction other than that. Some mill, some land destruction, but no real win-cons. If you want to have a serious mill win con, you can take out a little of your protection package and focus it on ETB effects and pair with a card like Altar of the Brood. Is that enough justification? I don't know, but ETB effects can be very strong and already seem like a small sub-theme. You would have to make more serious cuts for it. You definitely need to upgrade your mill-win con to be more flexible if you intend on winning that way. Sitting down at the average CMDR table of at least sum(4) means that you have hundreds of cards to whittle away. Some suggestions:Aforementioned Altar of the Brood, only for considerationSands of Delirium, Memory Erosion, Jace's Erasure, Sphinx's Tutelage, Increasing Confusion, Hinder/Spell Crumple + Tunnel Vision is a particular jank combo favorite of mine. Really you want stuff that hits early and doesn't require any further effort so you can pillowfort yourself, or are huge sinks for the late game push.
If you are looking to remove some pillowfort and upgrade your stax package, check out Brago, King Eternal, Paradox Engine, Static Orb, Tangle Wire, Torpor Orb, Smokestack, Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Meekstone, Clock of Omens (This is especially useful), Dovin Baan, Inspiring Statuary.
Also, you should take out all land destruction since you don't have a real way to take advantage of it. Even with a couple of your reductions, the green player/ Mizzix player will get on board faster and annihilate you out of spite.
Also, the deck only has mill as its win-con thus far, which is tenuous at best even in the most refined EDH decks. I suggest you put some of the not-so-flashy-feels-bad-win-cons in this deck such as Approach of the Second Sun, Azor's Elocutors, Laboratory Maniac, etc.
Also, after above edits, you only have three board clears by my count. Even if I'm off, you want around 7-10 for a deck of this style that covers a multitude of fronts. Most board-wipes are just creature based, but you should include ones like Akroma's Vengeance, Consulate Crackdown, Planar Cleansing, Nevinyrral's Disk. Things that can be instant speed are also great like Rout and Evacuation.
Your land base needs a pretty big update as well. You should really only be running 10 or less of each basic for a dual colored deck, though not as important for three and up decks. But, you have quite a few double-symbol costs that your cost reduction can't affect.Fixing lands Coastal Tower, Meandering River, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Azorius Guildgate, Sejiri Refuge, Tranquil Cove, Prairie Stream, Exotic Orchard.
Hope this helps! :)
2 weeks ago
checking out this list and offering my constructive criticism :D
Please keep in mind that this is just my take on Scion, there's definitely a lot of ways you can build it, so these comments are going with the train of though that being voltron for the win is the most efficient path to victory :D
I'll break it down by category:
Lands:I'd probably cut minamo and high market. From there, I think 36 lands is fine, and I'd play 2 of each basic to play around non-basic hate and to take advantage of some other effects from cards I'll mention later.
I'd also consider running ancient tombs in place of Crystal Quarry, cascading cataracts just seems like a better version
Sorcery:I feel like these should mostly be either- Powerful board wipes- Powerful card draw- Stuff that will win you the game
My reasoning for this is that this deck probably draws stuff it doesn't want to/can't play, and those cards end up being dead in the hand for too long.
In your list, I'd probably cut:
1x Channel the Suns - this card takes up a slot to net you 1 mana. If you're fetching right and have mana rocks, this card is basically dead.
1x Fearsome Awakening - very slow reanimation spell, the 2x +1/+1 counters aren't an upside worth paying 5 mana for in my opinion.
1x Skyshroud Claim - you can probably find a better rate for ramp + fixing, a 4cmc sorcery seems like too steep of a price to pay.
Sorceries I'd consider bringing in are:
- Maelstrom Pulse - relevant vs tokens
- Akroma's Vengeance - flexible boarwipe thanks to cycling.
- Time Spiral - re-gas or reconstitute a weak hand.
- Rite of Replication - either copy the best threat, or make 5x of one of your dudes. Basically wins you the game with Scourge of Valkas if kicked (basically a super Valakut - 6x5x6 = 180 damage, since each copy Valkas will see 6 dragons entering the field at once)
- Bring to Light - essentially a tutor
Moving on to Instants:I'd cut Lure of Prey and Sarkhan's Triump. Feels like this deck wants to basically win with Scion getting through with commander damage, ultimately a voltron approach to victory. With that being said, I think you can jam a lot of high impact instants. These come to mind:
- Path to Exile
- Swords to Plowshares - life gain doesn't really matter if you're winning with 21 commander damage.
- Disallow - gets rid of tricky stuff, and its a solid counterpell overall
- Fact or Fiction - fills the GY, digs 5 cards deep at instant speed for 4cmc.
- Savage Beating - for 5 or 7 cmc, you win the game
- Hatred - seems decent in EDH, with 40 life, you're basically trading off 5cmc + 15 life to either win the game, or to knock someone out of the game (commander damage).
Enchantments:Cuts, due to low impact, in my opinion:
- Aura Shards
- Dragon Tempest - might be keepable, haste is relevant.
Greater Good - don't think you want to be sacrificing your dudes, plus your blue instant speed stuff should be drawing you cards :D
- Pattern of Rebirth
- Pernicious Deed
- Sylvan Library
If I were jamming Scion, I'd probably want my enchantments to do 1 of 3 things - either keep me alive, protect my dudes, or act as a damage multiplier or grants evasion so I can win via commander damage.
Stuff that keeps you alive:
Stuff that protects my dudes:- Asceticism - you already run this, nothing else off the top of my head atm.
Evasion/game winning stuff:
- Thasa God of the Sea - an enchantment that gives auto-scry, is indestructible, AND grants unblockable? Seems decent.
- In the Web of War - haste seems good, or maybe this can just be an Anger? Meta call, depends on how much GY hate there happens to be :D
- Xenagos, God of Revels - more commander damage!
- Duelist's Heritage - MORE damage!
- Gratuitous Violence - even MORE damage
- Finest Hour - this is basically game ending
Now, on to Artifacts:
First, stuff that doesn't pass the initial eye test:
- Crucible - no obvious synergy
- Dragon Arch - seems iffy, you end up paying 7cmc to play a multi-colored creature, at which point, you can probably just play the creature. If the creature costs less than 7cmc, you kind of just owned yourself.
Stuff I think is worth checking out:- Chrome Mox- Prismatic Geoscope - this is what those basics will help out with :D- Fellwar Stone - most likely fixes some colors + ramps- Swiftfoot Boots - lightning greaves #2- Credit Voucher - cycles dead cards for potentially not dead cards, for the low cost of 2cmc
Planeswalkers - I noticed you don't run any, I think these might be decent:Sarkhan Unbroken - CARD DRAW + mana fixing/ramp in one? SEEMS GOOD!Sorin, Grim Nemesis - MORE CARD DRAW!? AND with the high CMC of your stuff, the drain should be excellent every now and then.Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker - Takes care of any creature threat + flavor win
CREATURES!!I'd make these cuts on the thinking that they either:A) Don't win you the gameB) Don't advance your boardstate enoughC) Don't provide adequate utilityC) You're never going to be able to abuse their 3cmc payment abilities + you probably will only have one shot with them. Feels like the mana would be better spent winning with Scion.
- 1x Balefire Dragon
- 1x Bladewing the Risen
- 1x Dragon Mage
- 1x Dragonlord Ojutai
- 1x Dragonlord's Servant
- 1x Dragonspeaker Shaman
- 1x Hellkite Tyrant
- 1x Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
- 1x Numot, the Devastator
- 1x Savage Ventmaw
- 1x Steel Hellkite
- 1x Teneb, the Harvester
- 1x Tyrant's Familiar
- 1x Utvara Hellkite
- 1x Vorosh, the Hunter
Creatures I'd consider running:
- Magus of the Moat
- Kaalia of the Vast
- Dragonlord Kolaghan
- Rafiq of the Many
- Scourge of the Throne
- Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
- Spellbound Dragon
- Mana-Charged Dragon
- Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Ophidian Eye - classic combo + alternate wincon
- Hellkite Overlord
- Dragon Tyrant
Whew, that's all I've got! Again, this is just my take on what I think is the path of least resistance to victory with a Scion deck that's not as vulnerable to GY hate. GY strats are definitely legit, so feel free to jam all the reanimation + tutors too :D
Hope you found some of this useful :D
1 month ago
Your deck reminds me of Astral Slide, the most OG of flicker spells. Since Cycling is now a thing again, you have a whole host of Cycling lands to choose from:
Additionally, you could use:
- Eternal Dragon to help you get more Plains.
- Akroma's Vengeance for mass destruction, and a chance for you to slide a creature to save them from the destruction.
- Decree of Justice A bomb of a spell, especially great after you just do a board wipe.
I realize that these suggestions would basically change your entire deck, but that's what came to mind. Take it all worth a grain of salt. But if you're willing to go into that direction, let me know. I'm curious to see what you'd think up.
1 month ago
Nice Deck, I love it! Got a few quick ideas for you. I noticed you have a high mana curve, I would try and lower it and add some big mana creation if possible. Now here are some more expensive some cards to think about, lol Heroes' Podium, Captain Sisay, Time of Need, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Thalia's Lancers, Gilded Lotus, Akroma's Vengeance, Supreme Verdict, Serra's Sanctum, Verduran Enchantress, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Coat of Arms, Pyramid of the Pantheon, Thran Dynamo, Marshal's Anthem. Happy Gathering!
2 months ago
The landbase looks solid and the curve seems fine!
You might want a couple of more mana rocks, but you should get a proper feel for that with play testing.
Sunblast Angel might also be useful, as it's not too hard to make it one sided in your favour.
2 months ago
The pleasure is all mine RedStanley
First off, I like what you got going on so let's build on that. First, I would either add Wrath of God or replace Day of Judgment with it, purely because the dis-allowance of regeneration. Other board wipes that are viable are Fumigate, Akroma's Vengeance, Planar Cleansing, Descend upon the Sinful, Rout, Austere Command and Mass Calcify Secondly you have a lot of creatures and there is a new card coming out called Oketra's Monument which is great for this style of deck. Moving onto your protection, Aegis of the Gods is great and all but Leyline of Sanctity and Witchbane Orb are also nice and can give you extra protection. Along with a card called Personal Sanctuary you will be safe from bolts and what have you. Another card you may want to consider is Crawlspace or Silent Arbiter to help prolong your life. Next we need to focus on alternate win cons, because let's face it sometimes you can't beat face. I recommend adding Helm of Obedience because it combos with Rest in Peace allowing you to mill someone out. The next alternate win con will be Sun Titan, Blasting Station, and Angelic Renewal which creates an infinite loop of sorts. Now for beating face I recommend getting some more anthem effects, things like Always Watching , Cathars' Crusade(maybe), and mayhaps an Akroma's Memorial. I know that I am recommending a lot of non-creature stuff but it works with that you are doing. However there are some creatures that I can recommend, that can help you pull out a creature based win, those being Odric, Lunarch Marshal,, Eidolon of Rhetoric Angelic Skirmisher, Suture Priest, Windborn Muse, Odric, Master Tactician, these guys awesome. Also while mentioning creatures, there are some that seem very under-performing, such as Thalia's Lieutenant and Champion of the Parish, while you have around 60 some odd percent of creatures that are humans you still have the 40% that's not. For money cards I would look for things like Mana Crypt and what have you, things to help you ramp up. Also as I am sure you are aware, mono-white and card draw don't exist really. Which is why I like Staff of Nin and also Mind's Eye and also for some tutoring Ring of Three Wishes they are all helpful in that regard. On that thought as well, it just occurred to me that the combination of Land Tax and Scroll Rack is almost unparalelled for mono white. I would also recommend a fetchland or two, this is becuase they give you the ability to shuffle your deck for a reasonable cost which is nice. Looking at your maybeboard now I really like Pearl Medallion, Weathered Wayfarer, and also the Mark of Asylum. Those are all nice. Speaking of the Asylum, a card that works well with that is Dolmen Gate making the only way that your creatures receive damage is through blocking. OK... I think I am done. I apologize for the long response but I hope this gave you some thoughts.
2 months ago
I haven't - at the moment I'm running Rout and Akroma's Vengeance for wraths, because they both allow you to act on an opponent's turn (allowing me to get some sweet, sweet flips). I've definitely been blown out by Phyrexian Rebirth by my friend's Trostani, Selesnya's Voice deck, haha!
3 months ago
yeah anytime! I go through different builds of karametra every couple of months/yr, this time around Im not playing that many wrath spells, but my normal wrath's are Wrath of God, Akroma's Vengeance, Phyrexian Rebirth Catastrophe and Austere Command. This is the typical mana curve you want you wrath spells to be at generally, Idk if this helps or not! Let me know how it goes and if you need any help!