|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2017 (C17)||Rare|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Rare|
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Creature — Dragon
Whenever Hellkite Charger attacks, you may pay . If you do, untap all attacking creatures and after this phase, there is an additional combat phase.
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|Have (21)||ironax , pskinn01 , maR2307 , Kimimaro , saj0219 , mentor6 , joshw335 , mziter501 , CampbellStev , MattN7498 , golgarigirl , rockleemyhero , rakdos24 , mcstang1986 , Wolfebladeelite , GoldGhost012 , , Unjust_DiabIo , sonnet666 , johnsongrantr , Suns_Champion|
|Want (2)||Riders_of_Brohan , richardmv|
Hellkite Charger Discussion
2 days ago
DrukenReaps covered the mana issue pretty well. The other suggestion that I'd make for a deck with this high of a CMC is that you probably want more ramp sources or mana rocks. Commander's Sphere and Dimir Signet are both great here. You might also consider replacing Temple of the False God with a basic. You're really color-intensive and don't have a lot of land ramp, so it's at high risk of not actually doing much good in this deck.
To expand a little on narrowing the tribes... I don't think you necessarily have to cut down what tribes are in your deck. However, if you aren't running at least 25 creatures of a tribe, tribal support cards like Crucible of Fire and Door of Destinies are simply bad. You frequently have to take a turn off to play them, so if they're not going to do some reasonable work right away, they're probably worse than a basic land. Kindred Dominance is going to hit so much of your own stuff that you're likely better off playing something like Languish, Crux of Fate or Blasphemous Act instead.
Along those lines, given your high average CMC, loading up on more reasonably-cheap board wipes is probably a good idea. If it's going to take you a while to get going, being able to control the board in the early game is really important. If your opponent has a field full of elves, slamming Butcher of Malakir or Stormsurge Kraken without clearing the board first isn't going to save you.
As for a few cards that you might consider cutting:
- You're really not running enough instants/sorceries to support Mizzix of the Izmagnus in the 99. Mizzix is great, but he really needs a dedicated spellslinger deck to shine. Talrand, Sky Summoner suffers from much the same problem.
- Mindscour Dragon, Vela the Night-Clad and Archetype of Imagination all seem marginal to bad here (with their effects either being redundant or not really big enough for their mana cost). You might consider just slotting some of the decent dragons like Hellkite Charger, Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, Steel Hellkite, Shivan Dragon or Ryusei, the Falling Star.
- Vapor Snag and Dark Betrayal are both pretty bad in EDH. The former represents major card disadvantage in multiplayer. If you're looking for more bounce effects, you might consider Capsize (although I don't think this is really a Capsize deck). Ratchet Bomb is also a little iffy in a format with such a broad range of CMCs on the table. Unless there are a lot of tokens in your meta, it's probably not worth it.
- Cartouche of Knowledge is probably worse than just Ponder.
- Lord of Shatterskull Pass requires you to pump 16 mana in to it and survive to attack before it does anything, almost certainly not worth it.
- Black Market may end up being pretty good due to Marchesa, or not very good since you have a lot of big creatures. I don't think this is immediately a cut, but keep a close eye on how it performs.
- Torment of Hailfire and Torment of Scarabs are also worth keeping an eye on. I feel like you're probably not going to be producing enough mana for Hailfire to do enough work, and Scarabs is limited by only targeting one opponent. They seem like good options to consider cutting in favor of more land.
3 days ago
Hello CinnaToastKrunch. Well you want some advice on cuts right? Well lets get it shall we. I am going to just go down the line and see what we can do and start from the beginning.
Creatures that should be cut: Boneyard Scourge, Territorial Hellkite, Tyrant's Familiar, Thassa, God of the Sea, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, Spellbound Dragon, Kruphix, God of Horizons, Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and Hellkite Charger. These guys are very iffy and I personally not a fan of them, especially the first two. Whatever territory that hellkite is being protective about, he can keep it cause it isn't worth it. I wanted Boneyard Scourge to do more instead of just be an annoying 4/3 that just keeps coming back. It is also hard to pay its mana cost at times cause we as dragon deck users tap out a lot. The gods aren't doing much for the deck and I think just bog the deck down. Have you always been happy to see any of those gods upon drawing them? I am also not a fan of Scion of the Ur-Dragon in this deck, especially with a lack of recursion. If we recurred more, then yeah he would be great, but you don't have many recursion spells right now. Skithiryx to me is just so bad in this deck. He is a great card, but if you can't have him one shot people, then he will be removed before he becomes a problem. He also works better in a scion deck where scion can become skithiryx and one shot people for infect out of no where.
Creature that might be cut: Crosis, the Purger, Intet, the Dreamer, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, Taigam, Ojutai Master, and Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. These guys are something that you must think about. I feel that the first two can be lacklust at times without scion, and some of them just get removed. Lets face it, if crosis doesn't have haste, people aren't going to let him stay. Niv-mizzet will depend on your draw package, but by himself, he isn't that impressive. Taigam is cool, but to get that rebound, he has to attack, so I feel he isn't that good, but if you want protection, maybe try City of Solitude. Rashmi, this is a card I haven't seen before and interests me, however, would prefer to run something like Maelstrom Nexus to get those cascades. She is essentially cascading for you but only the top card, and it might not hit every time.
Planeswalkers: I have no experience with Nissa, Steward of Elements, so I am unsure how she really function. Seems okay in reason, but at the same time, she is a huge mana dump that might not get you far. I think your other two planeswalkers are far superior to her and should keep them over her.
Instant; I am unsure about just the lone Counterspell. Seems odd, but might come in handy at times. I am thinking of throwing in a Mana Drain is I can get one. I would also recommend some more single target removal. Never know when getting rid of a creature or enchantment could save you the game.
Lands: I will not make any suggestions and what to cut here, because I think people should have an idea of what to cut for lands as they play the deck. Especially if they don't get the proper fixing of lands for them. I will however suggest that 44 seems a little high for my taste. I like running 37-40 as my personal preference.
Enchantments: Crucible of Fire, and Exploration. If you keep the high land count, then exploration might be worth it, but Burgeoning could also go well with said high land count. With that being said though, eventually you will run out of lands, and you need draw power to refill the hand after playing all of your lands. Crucible of fire I find is not worth it. Why not run Door of Destinies if you really want to buff your dragons, but here is the main question. Do you really need the extra damage buff on dragons? They hit really hard as it is.
Artifacts: Armillary Sphere, Mirror of the Forebears, Paradox Engine, and maybe Fist of Suns. The paradox engine should go as you are not running enough rocks that can take full benefit of the engine to do its job. The mirror is cool, but the targets it can copy are few. Remember that most dragons are legendary and this mirror still becomes a copy of said legendary dragon. Can only have one legendary dragon of the same name out at a time. First of suns just reduces the cost of our commander and I found it drawing it late game was just a huge letdown and not worth my time.
Sorcery: Index, Time Stretch, and Time Warp. I am unsure on these. Index is cool, but I think I would rather just use Fact or Fiction and Treasure Cruise. The extra turn cards are good, and they are strong, but here is something to think about. When you go for that extra turn, are you in a board state to do so, or can you kill somebody right there with that extra turn? Maybe can you kill two people. I think with extra turn cards, you better be going off and killing at least 1-2 people to make it worth it, other wise you painted a giant target on your self because people now know you run extra turn cards in a dragon deck.
Anyway, these are some of my two cents on some of the cards in this deck. Now I want you to remember, these are SUGGESTIONS. It is very important to make a deck your own and continue to develop it so that it suits your needs, and your current playgroups needs. Love a specific card, then by all means, run it. I am a huge fan of all the dragonlord cards and love them. I run all but Dragonlord Silumgar, but even I have been thinking of putting him in for the fact it can steal a planeswalker. The point is, when making/playing a deck, one needs to sit down and think about how good a card is going to be in certain situations. As I said about Fist of Suns, great early game, huge let down late game. Dragonspeaker Shaman, great for all your dragons, doesn't do crap for any of your utility spells. These are all examples of cards that can do great, but when actually playing them, they are lackluster and it could be better to run something else. I also apologize that I haven't suggested cards to replace the ones to be removed, but I think you can handle this department. Just think about what you want to do, and the answers will come. I will make one suggestion though. Selvala's Stampede. This card is game breaking and it is just to much fun.
I hope I haven't crushed any dreams or anything like that. Remember I just made suggestions and only want to help focus your direction to what you want, from here, you then need to decide what you want your deck to do. Have a great day Krunch, and stay safe.
1 week ago
Magewright's Stone, Puppet Strings, and Staff of Domination because you want to be able to use the commander's ability as much as possible. Also, those are going to be huge targets once people realize what is happening. You'll want as much redundancy as possible.
Also, I think you could play some different big red stuff. Avatar of Slaughter could be hugely beneficial for you. Since you have to sacrifice him, you are the only one that gets the double strike benefit. Excruciator just to bypass any Fogs in your meta. Utvara Hellkite seems extremely beneficial because it will give you a dragon just for attacking. Plus, you already play multiple dragons. Spitebellows just seems funny here. It will always deal 6 damage to something! Furyborn Hellkite I feel like you could use if you made the deck a little different. Anything to deal one damage, to get a 12/12 flying for three mana. Hellkite Igniter seems good here, since you play an artifact subtheme. Hellkite Charger for the win. Scourge of the Throne for the same reason as Hellkite Igniter. Ryusei, the Falling Star for board wipes. Thundermaw Hellkite to tap all flying creatures so your attacks can get through. Akroma, Angel of Fury because she can just be a powerhouse. Combustible Gearhulk actually seems like a win-win for your deck. Neheb, the Eternal seems like he could benefit you with extra mana mainphase two. Conquering Manticore and Zealous Conscripts for similar reasons. Dragon Mage if you need a new hand. Combat Celebrant seems good here. Goblin Dark-Dwellers could be a possibility. Heartless Hidetsugu, dude yes!
I mainly searched for power, so I'm sure there are other creatures to look up with good ETB effects. After doing that search for you I realized that I like Feldon as a commander. Hope you don't mind if I make him based on your deck XD.
1 week ago
+1 from me!
1 week ago
How about a different kind of combo?
Another potential combo piece is Mind Over Matter which combos with everything if you put your mind it it! :D
3 weeks ago
@MegaMatt13: Hey MegaMatt13. I am actually also very curious how it fully runs and in my play testing, it seems to do really well and I do really like that cost reduction for the dragons. I just wish that I could play it right now, but I should be able to play it soon. I currently live in Texas and so hurricane Harvey has put a damper on my play time for this deck. All of my commander 2017 stuff came the day before the mail was cancelled from the storm. Also, on another note, no my house has not flooded and my family is alright. On another note, I do not own a Dragon Broodmother so I can't add that one just yet but it looks like it might be good for getting those Dragon Tempest/Scourge of Valkas triggers. I love how Wasitora, Nekoru Queen looks and just haven't put her in. I feel that O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a huge deterrent, especially if you can give it double strike so that you can remove two permanents. The Hellkite Charger has been looking towards my cut line just because of the fact it costs lots of mana to use its extra battle effect. Especially since I already have Scourge of the Throne and Aggravated Assault.
3 weeks ago
After playing with the new commander decks, I'm considering making this a tribal Dragon deck for a little while. Things to consider:
Balefire Dragon, Hellkite Tyrant, Utvara Hellkite, Bogardan Hellkite, Hellkite Charger, Thundermaw Hellkite, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Scourge of the Throne, Yosei, the Morning Star, Tyrant's Familiar, Oros, the Avenger, Skyline Despot, Boltwing Marauder, Skyship Stalker, Scourge of Valkas, Glorybringer, Hoard-Smelter Dragon, Knollspine Dragon, Hunted Dragon, Scalelord Reckoner,Boneyard Scourge,