Forgotten Cave enters the battlefield tapped.
: Gain .
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
Printings View all
|Commander 2020 (C20)||Uncommon|
|Mystery Booster (MYS1)||Common|
|Arena Cards (ARENA)||Common|
|Commander 2019 (C19)||Common|
|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2018 (C18)||Common|
|Commander Anthology 2018 (CM2)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Merfolk vs. Goblins (DDT)||Common|
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Common|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Common|
|Duel Decks Anthology (DD3)||Common|
|Commander 2014 (C14)||Common|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Common|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Izzet vs. Golgari (DDJ)||Common|
|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Elves vs. Goblins (EVG)||Common|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Forgotten Cave occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.06%
Forgotten Cave Discussion
2 weeks ago
There are 3 reasons why someone would consider including Havengul Lich in their 99: 1) They want to be able to use activated abilities from graveyards for 1 mana. This requires a dedicated decklist. 2) They want to be able to cast creatures from graveyards at instant speed (creatures with Flash, or with Vedalken Orrery/Leyline of Anticipation/etc). This also requires a dedicated decklist 3) They want to be able to cast creatures from their opponent's graveyards. This also requires a dedicated decklist. I don't think your deck wants to do any of those things or enough of those things, so it doesn't really make sense to include it.
multimedia is also absolutely correct that your deck wants fetchlands, assuming that money is no concern (which is reasonable, considering you have all of the original duals), as not only will these cards get your duals, they can also be replayed by Muldrotha, the Gravetide and will thin your deck. In fact, all of his suggestions for improving the manabase are correct: lands that can enter untapped are generally better than those that don't. That doesn't mean don't use untapped lands, only that you should only use a few and that you should pick them wisely (such as Bojuka Bog, or cycling lands such as Forgotten Cave).
Furthermore, consider using Animate Dead, Necromancy and Dance of the Dead. These are enchantments that recur creatures, which lets you get around the limitations on Muldrotha of only being able to recur 1 card of the each type. On top of that, if the creature dies, the enchantment goes to the graveyard, which can then be recurred once more. On top of that, each can recur cards from another player's graveyard, which is useful in a pinch.
Finally, since you are in green you really shouldn't use ramp spells that A) don't put permanents directly into play or B) cost more than 3 mana. Realms Uncharted violates the first, and Hour of Promise violates the second. On top that, your deck contains no Desert Lands (such as Desert of the Glorified or Ifnir Deadlands), so you will never get the second part of Hour of Promise, effectively making it a more expensive Explosive Vegetation that isn't limited to basic lands. As multimedia suggested, Crop Rotation and the more costly-but-powerful Harrow are good replacements as Muldrotha can replay the sacrificed land afterwards, which gets around the cost of sacrificing land. Furthermore, Sakura-Tribe Elder is a must-include in Muldrotha decks, as it can become a Rampant Growth on every turn.
multimedia is also correct about cutting the Curse enchantments and Amulet of Vigor. The Curses are situational and limited in power, and Amulet of Vigor does not have enough synergies in the deck to be worth the slot.
Finally, here's a non-exhaustive list of zombies which are (in my opinion) some of the best options in EDH for your colors and why
- Gravecrawler - combo piece in sacrifice combos
- Cryptbreaker - Manaless card draw
- Carrion Feeder / Nantuko Husk - free sacrifice outlet
- Stitcher's Supplier - efficient self-mill
- Lotleth Troll - free discard outlet
- Undead Augur / Plague Belcher - aristocrat win-condition
- Cemetery Reaper / Death Baron - Lord
- Diregraf Captain - Lord and aristocrat win-condition
- Fleshbag Marauder - Removal
- Midnight Reaper - Repeatable Card Draw
- Murderous Rider - Removal
- Prized Amalgam - combo piece in sacrifice combos
- Balthor the Defiled - Mass-reanimate
- Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - win condition
- Undead Alchemist - mass token generator
- Corpse Connoisseur - Entomb on a body
- Custodi Lich - Monarch generator
- Phyrexian Delver - Gets around Muldrotha's limitation
- Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - board-wipe protection/combo-piece
- Noosegraf Mob - very fast token generator
1 month ago
Your deck looks quite nice and well balanced regarding the mana curve, the lands and the spell ratio. Well done! One thing you might want to look at are the 1-mana cycling lands, in your case Lonely Sandbar and Forgotten Cave. They're budget and will increase the amount of keepable hands you get and also counter land-flood late game. If you plan on adding them eventually, I'd first look at Lonely Sandbar, as this will give you access to serum visions sometimes and eventually more lands, if you're mana screwed or already on mulligans.
+1 from me!
1 month ago
Yes, that works.
In the detailed rules for cycling, discarding the card is part of the cost to activate the ability (see the reminder text on something like Forgotten Cave). The card will already be in the graveyard at the time players are given a chance to respond to the ability before the draw happens.
1 month ago
DemonDragonJ gonna tell you a dirty little deckbuilding secret of mine: when you're using more than 20 lands and only play 1-2 colors in Modern (or other formats the cards are legal in), have land 21-2X be 1-mana cycling lands. In this case Forgotten Cave. This smoothens your mana curve by preventing both land screw early game (giving you a bonus T1 play) and late game mana flood. Enjoy ;)
2 months ago
Great start! You have pretty much all the good kicker cards. I think you could focus a bit more on the secondary theme of Hallar, which is +1/+1 counters. Hallar doesn't care where the counters come from, which means you don't actually need that many Kicker cards to make him deal tons of damage.
Hunger of the Howlpack is a great addition to the deck, being one of the most efficient counter-givers in Pauper.
Ivy Lane Denizen is a must have in this deck. You make plenty of tokens, which can either make Hallar massive or simply make your 1/1s into 2/2s, which is an incredible boost.
Longshot Squad gives most of your team reach. Aquastrand Spider also does it for a cost, but can also distribute counters. Spike Colony is a pretty beefy creature that can also give its counters to others. This can make combat very difficult for the opponent on top of all the synergy it gives naturally.
Horned Kavu is extremely useful in this deck, since it can re-buy so many of your ETB triggers for lots of value.
It's so hard to get card advantage in these colours. I would definitely play Entourage of Trest to try to keep up with Blue and Black decks. I also don't leave home without Rolling Thunder and Elven Cache in these colours as cards to catch you up in card advantage. You could also be running up to six cycling lands, namely Tranquil Thicket and Forgotten Cave. In terms of synergy, you could also go for Tishana's Wayfinder and Brazen Buccaneers.
2 months ago
I think some improvement could be made in your mana base. You are running the gain lands which is great, but there are other great duels. The bounce lands Dimir Aqueduct, Izzet Boilerworks and Rakdos Carnarium are very powerful because they can allow you to basically have an extra land drop with just one card (makes opening hands more keepable) and it can also let you reuse ETB effect lands. You could also be running Bojuka Bog, which I jam in every Black deck. Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds are better at fixing your mana than regular dual lands. I also wouldn't mind seeing some cycling lands like Forgotten Cave, Lonely Sandbar and Barren Moor at a minimum. You could be running up to 9 cyclers in your mana base alone.
Almost every single one of your creatures has an ETB. You should really think about including the cheese package of Ghostly Flicker and Displace(and maybe Merchant Scroll). You're already running Archaeomancer and Izzet Chronarch for infinite value loops. You could add even more creatures like them to really take advantage of the engine. Add in Peregrine Drake and Cloud of Faeries and you could be looking at infinite mana and blink effects as a secondary win condition. It's hard not to include this combo when you're playing Blue because it's such a great way to end the game.
In terms of your creatures, I like where it's going. I would swap out Sibsig Icebreakers for Dinrova Horror, who's a massive beater with a great abusable trigger.
I like all your reomval spells except for Terror. Wouldn't Doom Blade be an upgrade, or are you playing against regenerate? You could also run something cool like Jilt instead, or perhaps Edict effects to go along with your board wipes, like Chainer's Edict.
5 months ago
Ramunap Ruins I can understand I guess. Could get that last little bit of damage in but whether or not it is worth the life lost is the main question.
Hmmmm...have you tried Forgotten Cave at all before this? Not saying it is bad, I've just never tried it myself. Was wondering your thoughts.
Personally I've ways regretted not having board wipes in the main. Maybe space for some Sweltering Suns for the cycling when you don't need it and keep Anger in the side as backup. I know Ensnaring Bridge is great, but I've always felt like I needed some board wipes.
For the specific strategy this is going, I feel like Shenanigans should have one mainboard and Shattering Spree or Shatterstorm be the sideboard artifact hate. That is up to preference and playtesting though.
Do you think this is fast enough (or doesn't need) any rituals to speed up the turn one plays? Well...taking Goblin Rabblemaster limits the turn one plays. At this point it is really only Blood Moon that you could get with any kind of consistency. Maybe not. An idea to consider though.
Some things to think about.
5 months ago
Hate to be a negative Nancy, but if you seriously want to make this competitive as tagged (which means it can actually compete with the Tier meta decks and have a chance to win), you'll have to reconsider some of your choices:
1) 18 lands, 10 1-drops & 14 3-drops
This doesn't add up from a deckbuilding perspective. The only decks that can reliably play 18 lands and get away with it either have lots of 0-mana or 1-mana scry and/or draw effects that make up for it, or they mostly play 1-drops (or free spells, or mana dorks) to at least be able to keep more 1-land hands.
2) Connected to this issue is the fact that the distribution of your 1-, 2-, and 3-drops does not really work in your favor. Assuming you're running 40 spells and want to curve out at 3 mana, a well balanced spell distribution would look something like: 20x 1-drops, 12x 2-drops and 8x 3-drops
A crafty way of improving your landbase might be playing 20 lands, but 2-4 of those lands being Forgotten Cave . This will produce more keepable hands by reducing the amount of 1-land and 0-land (and, while more improbable, even 5-, 6-, and 7-land) hands you'd need to mulligan away, while also preventing you to flood out down the line.
3) Do you have a Sideboard?
4) Your perfect hand calculation is a little off, as you cannot tap Thermo Alchemist on your opponent's T2 because, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't have haste.
Again, I don't like to sound too negative here and this critique is really supposed to be constructive. I, too enjoy deckbuilding a lot and I have found that there are some unwritten rules which can help improve the deckbuilding process.
Also giving this +1 because I like the idea behind the deck and I hope you can make this the best it can be. Cheers!