Creature — Merfolk Wizard
When Thassa's Oracle enters the battlefield, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is your devotion to blue. Put up to one of them on top of your library and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. If X is greater than or equal to the number of cards in your library, you win the game. (Each in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to blue.)
|Have (2)||, Taki117|
|Want (6)||Steackosore , BSwCDo , Cannon119 , gwumbelbehr , chrysanthemoms , calypzo|
Printings View all
|Theros Beyond Death (THB)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
- Paradigm Shift + Thassa's Oracle
- Temur Sabertooth + Thassa's Oracle
- Deadeye Navigator + Thassa's Oracle
- Mirror-Mad Phantasm + Thassa's Oracle + Unearth
- Spellseeker + Thassa's Oracle
- Enter the Infinite + Omniscience + Thassa's Oracle
- Stroke of Genius + Thassa's Oracle
- Inverter of Truth + Thassa's Oracle
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Thassa's Oracle Discussion
TWCE on Oracle Core
1 hour ago
spuiopq Meme Journey seems better as a defensive option in the deck (with the breakfast pile) to shuffle Chain of Vapor back in and attempt to win again the following turn if the first one failed. With all of the Hulk piles there will be at least 3 devotion on board (Thassa's Oracle + Spellseeker/Cephalid Illusionist), and likely higher if the game lasts longer (Rhystic Study, Thrasios, etc.). Thus Meme Journey as a tech card really doesn't do much unless you have other removal on top of it. Since that's the case it's basically just better to run better interaction and have higher card quality than a card that isn't even guaranteed to stop the combo.
13 hours ago
Milkspy I disagree with your Memory's Journey comment. It is a very good answer to opponent's graveyard strategy and disruption to tutors that search to top of library, now it can even be an answer to Thassa's Oracle consultation if 2 blue devotion is all they have. Entomb works great with it, too.
17 hours ago
Heres a question: why not ban Thassa's Oracle? Before that card, it seems like hulk decks had diversity and flash/hulk wasnt the same straight line into a win.
1 day ago
Honestly if you want a compact win con in your colors, the most powerful win con to go with would be Tainted Pact/Demonic Consultation and Thassa's Oracle/Jace, Wielder of Mysteries. I think Flash is 100% the wrong way to go because you aren't utilizing it in the way flash hulk decks do. Necropotence would be a fantastic addition. Reliquary tower seems unnecessary, discarding to hand size isn't all that bad honestly.
2 days ago
"Tbh I dont play cedh much"
Yeah dog we know. If you did, you'd be onboard with one of these cards getting banned
"However, I also think that banning a card just because it combos well with another card or two isnt really good enough reason for a banning"
There are plenty of 2 card combos that directly lead to winning that nobody is requesting a ban on. The specific problem with Flash Hulk is that it is easy to assemble, extremely cheap to use, and hard to interact with outside of counterspells or very specific stax pieces like Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence. The flash hulk player can sandbag their combo until getting either a counterspell or a Chain of Vapor effect to handle counterspells/stax pieces. The combo sits neatly in hand until it fires, meaning you don't get the chance to remove a piece to stop it from executing correctly. After the Hulk trigger resolves, the Flash Hulk player selects a handful of creatures that specifically allow them to hold priority until all their needed triggers to win are stacked, meaning you must attack abilities on the stack in order to stop the combo at this point. This combo can fire entirely at instant speed, meaning you can wait until a counter-war breaks out on the stack to slip your own combo on top, or simply try to win in response to someone else winning. Its a very powerful combo and currently nothing is close to it in consistency or difficulty to handle for the competitive scene.
Combos are fine. Combos that are extremely hard to interact with outside of playing blue and always holding a counterspell are not fine. Compare to a combo like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Village Bell-Ringer. You can remove one of the two pieces in response to the other being cast, that alone means every color can handle the combo. You can play any number of stop combat effects like Fog. You can even get blowouts with a card like Rakdos Charm. Any combat inhibitors like Solitary Confinement or Ghostly Prison also cause grief for this combo. Now compare to Flash Hulk. You need blue and you need counterspells or Stifle. Really narrows down deckbuilding choices about how to handle the combo.
Raging_Squiggle Iona, Shield of Emeria is banned because Painter's Servant was unbanned, not due to griefing casuals. It also did see play in competitive decks prior to its banning, especially in midrange decks that had both white and black, and it was a common reanimation target because it completely hoses out blue players or can lock a player if they're on a mono color combo like Godo or Sidisi. Swinging for 7 is non-trivial, even in combo heavy cEDH. If the board is locked or heavily slowed, especially if you have other hatebears, bleeding out the fastest combo deck or the Ad Nauseam/Necropotence player wins games.
While its arguable that Thassa's Oracle pushed Hulk past the tipping point, Hulk was already the deck to beat in cEDH. Just the fact there were 3 different hulk lists with the same commander for doing literally the exact same thing speaks to how stale the meta became due to Hulk's unbanning. Whoopdeedoo so the hulk mechanism is Sacred Guide instead of Nomads + Cephalid, really revolutionary design. All that this printing has done is show that any new creature printed with an alternate wincon or ability to mill the library is exacerbated by the existing problem of Flash Hulk. The deck was boring to play against or pilot before Oracle, and it is still boring afterwards. Once again, the problem is Hulk's ability to pull jank ass 4 card combos from your deck from a single card. Flash speeds it up and handles the dying aspect of the Hulk trigger, but the problem is 100% totally Protean Hulk's 6 CMC of tutoring power off a single card.
Flash Hulk definitely isn't 40% of the meta, but it is an ever-present threat and restricts deckbuilding because you have to account for that combo. I highly doubt the RC is waiting because they are collecting data, they have made it very well known how they ban cards and how they prioritize casual players over competitive players. Sheldon wasn't even aware of Dramatic Scepter combo until about 2 years ago, and the RC is almost entirely casual players with a chip on their shoulder about efficiency in their format. Them pushing rule 0 so heavily makes it even more absurd they don't ban from the top-down like literally every other single format. If a casual playgroup didn't like a ban, they could ignore it, meanwhile anyone who plays in tournaments or at their LGS is 100% bound to the RC's whimsical nonsensical bans.
2 days ago
@dbpunk - The difference between those two combos is vast. Both require two pieces in hand to go off, but flash hulk is one cast of an instant at two mana, if I am not mistaken it requires no other resources. Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond is two separate casts of two separate permenants requiring an investment of ten total mana. There are SO many more ways to interact with two cast triggers, and two permenants than a single cast of an instant. I don't like the thought of card bannings for no reason if the format is healthy...but if 40% of the meta (once again skeptically quoting an above poster having done no research myself) consists of one combo, that is a problem. Maybe the issue is Flash, maybe it is Protean Hulk or maybe it is Thassa's Oracle because it pushes the original combo past the point of standard consistancy, but ultimately something needs to be done, we can't completely ignore a portion of the player base of our amazing format. Perhaps the RC has done research and determined that only a few localized areas are having such a problem with this combo which is why they haven't reacted. Perhaps they are still collecting raw data to come up with their own conclusion. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
2 days ago
There are not too many critical targets for Torpor Orb. Yes, it stops Thassa's Oracle. However, experienced players easily pivot their wincon. If you are trying to fight against Consulation/Fish Hulk, counterspells are good enough. Are there any relevant competitive decks that get SHUT DOWN by Torpor Orb? Not in my local meta, at least. I think Torpor Orb effect is too narrow.
6 days ago
sega_homies after hulk dies you search up Nomads en-Kor, Cephalid Illusionist and Thassa's Oracle they all enter at the same time. In response to Oracle's etb trigger you mill yourself out by having Nomad target Cephalid repeatedly. After you have no library you let oracle resolve.