Force of Vigor
If it's not your turn, you may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy up to two target artifacts and/or enchantments.
|Have (2)||Bluboltar ,|
Printings View all
|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Force of Vigor Discussion
1 day ago
Ah okay, I assumed the maybeboard were cards you were only looking at, my bad!
In that case you have a bunch of stuff that definitely could fit in the deck. For those three you mentioned Exploration is very good and can be slotted in over Rampant Growth, Canopy Vista/Smoldering Marsh can just be replaced by a Forest/Mountain, and definitely take a Sol Ring if you have a spare one.
As for others, here's the most notable you have on your maybeboard:
- Asceticism - If it resolves your dragons are almost invulnerable outside of stuff like deathtouch/boardwipes
- Smothering Tithe - Could help with ramp
- Dragonlord Ojutai - Great card advantage with hexproof half of the time
- Glorybringer - Might not be as strong as some other options but that exert can effectively be a removal spell every other turn
- Nicol Bolas, the Ravager Flip - Great value all around and if you manage to transform him you basically win
- Rishkar's Expertise - Pricy but casting it will probably mean refilling your hand and getting a free dragon which covers its cost
- Cyclonic Rift - EDH staple and one of the best boardwipes in the format, wipes all of your opponents' creatures, artifacts, walkers, etc
- Force of Vigor - Pretty good removal that can be manaless
- Teferi's Protection - Protects your entire side from boardwipes
For boardwipes you already have Crux of Fate and Balefire Dragon. Throwing in Cyclonic Rift would definitely be a good choice. The issue with boardwipes in decks like these is that you don't want to reset your own boardstate, but that's why the three I mentioned are so good because they only affect the opponents. Cyclonic Rift also dodges indestructable as it's a bounce effect rather than a destroy.
In my opinion, counters are generally not very effective in decks like these. It's generally more effective to run cards like Rhythm of the Wild and Asceticism as they're not one-shots, while also having the side-benefit of opponents using their counters on your other opponents instead. If you wanted to pick up additional effects like those if counters/removal are rampant in your group, I personally like Steely Resolve and Conqueror's Flail.
If you want more spot removal, I definitely recommend picking up a Path to Exile. With it, Swords to Plowshares, and Anguished Unmaking you should be good for spot removal unless you wanted to splurge on an Assassin's Trophy.
I'm unsure about Ramos, Dragon Engine. Since you're in a more casual environment they might be okay, but unless you have something like Descendants' Path down they're not really worthwhile. If you're wanting to go out and buy a fairly expensive creature, by far the best purchase you could make is Kaalia of the Vast IMO.
6 days ago
Hey BenWin, thanks for the shout out. As you wrote a long post I thought it fair I do the same in reply.
I want to respond to your comment as I think there is a lot you are overlooking in your analysis, most of which is on point. However, you mentioned a few cards now a couple of times so I want to break these down a bit as you have gone to the effort to write an extensive comment.
Firstly I'd like to address your comment on Burgeoning + Ghost Town which you've shown your self to be an big advocate of. These are great cards and on paper seem to be great additions to the deck as they appear to enable one of our main objectives which is landfall triggers. However, the reason I think these cards have fallen out of favour is because they're very situational. Let me expand on that. If you do not have an opening hand with Burgeoning and a number of lands and a way to refill your hand (a very specific situation) the card is lackluster. Yes it is great if our opponents are constantly playing lands and we have Ghost Town and Burgeoning but this is honestly rarely the case. They are a weak draw 90% of the time. Even with Burgeoning in our opening hand as we do not have built in card draw we stall. Even with the increased draw effects provided by Zendikar Rising I do not think it is worth the spots.
Calling the removal of Perilous Forays crazy talk seems strange to me. The CMC of this card is 5, ideally we want to wait until Omnath, Locus of Rage is out before we play it so dodge removal. Even more ideally we want Amulet of Vigor in hand/on the battlefield too. My second gripe with the card is that once we have ramped a couple of times, played land each turn and then got into a position to 'combo off' with Perilous Forays most of the time the number of basics in our deck barely makes it worth while as it effectively switches off all our remaining ramp spells. There have been so many times I have 'gone off' with Perilous Forays and not killed a single opponent and left myself in a worse position. In my experience as this deck has evolved, and I have actually been playing it weekly since BFZ launch this card no longer packs the punch it once did.
I agree with you on Force of Vigor, this deck is extremely lean on interaction and removal as it is. This card is too strong to exclude.
Regarding Ancient Greenwarden and Doubling Season being enablers for 'overrun' type strategy I can't disagree with you more on this. We want to make 5/5 tokens on mass as we want to either trigger Warstorm Surge, Terror of the Peaks or Where Ancients Tread and/or we want to sac then to Omnath, Locus of Rage to bolt our opponents to death. We need a critical mass of 5/5s so that we can deliver enough damage to face. Mass elemental tokens also gives us sudo protection from board wipes. I know you're playing devils advocate here but no, in my opinion these cards generate huge value for Omnath generally not for a specific strategy.
Your comment on Nahiri's Lithoforming I find interesting as this is exactly my point on Perilous Forays and Burgeoning but my opinion is that Nahiri's Lithoforming is a great card almost all the time whereas the other cards I have mentioned are not. This card is gas with Titania, Protector of Argoth on the battlefield, if we have a decent hand already we are 80-90% certain to have lands to replay or draw into a land recursion effect like Crucible of Worlds or Splendid Reclamation. Not as good as Scapeshift obviously but I think you are underestimating the power of the card. Of course, play testing will tell us either way and I'll be interested to see if this card doesn't work out, which is might not, but I think until another land-centric draw card comes out this one is going to do Omnath just fine.
I haven't decided whether I am going to play Roiling Regrowth yet but I don't agree with your pros and cons analysis. The assumption that is worse than Springbloom Druid I don't think is accurate. Instant speed is a premium and shouldn't be under valued especially if you're playing with a pod with interaction etc. Getting Omnath triggers at instant speed is great and you can dodge opponents interaction. Your comments on the 4cmc ramp spells, I think these cards are just fine and fair. Not exceptional but not bad, Migration Path with cycling is a nice bonus. If these 4cmc ramp spells were instant, what would you think then?
Moraug, Fury of Akoum might just a be great additional line this deck can take. If the board state allows for it Chord of Calling this beast into play on an end step might be game winning. I am really on the fence as I'd really want a haste enabler to really break the card but honestly it might be fine by itself.
I ran Tooth and Nail for a long time with various different finishers and yeah it wins but it is not that fun a victory unless you count the time I have Omnath and Titania out and entwined It That Betrays and Keldon Firebombers into play, that was fun! It really depends what you want from Omnath. Omnath isn't my competitive deck. It is my pubstompy deck to pull out when people are bitch about one thing or another. If I want to combo to win I play one of my other decks. Each to their own though. Tooth and Nail wins games its just not for me and Sekki, Seasons' Guide is pretty weak the rest of the times you draw it.
I think your comment on non basic land search is spot on, we need more. I just don't think that there is currently any ones good enough for the deck other than Crop Rotation and Scapeshift, we just need to wait for better non basic search to be printed. A 2cmc Crop Rotation would be nice.
My issue with Skullclamp and Sensei's Divining Top is that they are not actively winning the game. If I were to include Top in my deck it would more often that not end up being a 2 mana brainstorm as I would likely shuffle it away with a fetch. Green Red doesn't have the draw that other decks have that can really abuse Top, it ends up slowing us down. Skullclamp is great value but I just don't think we'e a Skullclamp deck. I'd rather the slot for something that is enabling a win by synergising with the rest of our deck, Skullclamp doesn't, it is just value. Sure you can play it but it is detracting from what Omnath is trying to do in my opinion. You're also going to get a lot more hurt from Null Rods and Collector Ouphes out there. We have an advantage that a lot of hate doesn't really effect us. Apart from Humility of course which kinda hard counters Omnath most of the time :(
All of this discussion is what makes Omnath such a great general as there are so many viable build options.
1 week ago
EleshNornsFs 45 card vintage+No Force of Will/Force of Vigor, which are the cards that keep it balanced and not insane, but still all the Griselbrand and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn style nonsense Vintage wants.
Basically more consistent, less fair Vintage.
1 week ago
VexenX, I love the new conversation sparked by Zendikar Rising! When deck-building or adding new cards, I think it's important to revisit our win-cons. As it stands, I believe your deck has two types of win cons: burn and creature overrun. Ever since the removal of Akroma's Memorial and addition of Fiery Emancipation, I've come around to the fact that Burn is a more competitive win con. Would you disagree?
Next, since Omrath runs little removal, I believe that we should be in the mindset of designing a deck that works towards its strengths more than patching its weaknesses. This way, our goal should be to put pressure on our opponents and win as quickly as possible. You can see where I'm going with all this, as I am suggesting cuts to creature overrun enhancing cards and keeping/adding burn enhancing cards.
A few comments on your new card update post:
1) I 100% agree with Valakut Exploration. Although card draw is neat, you and everyone else on this page may be underestimating just how good the burn value can be! Because the damage is dealt to "each" opponent, we have a mini Purphoros, God of the Forge on our hands. Since Valakut Exploration burn is triggered by landfall, it works especially well with - you guessed it - Burgeoning + Ghost Town! And the more creature overrun enhancing cards like Doubling Season we slot out for cheaper draw-into-hand cards, the more smoothly Burgeoning works in the deck just by itself. And the more cheap draw-into-hand cards we have in the deck, the more likely we are to cast the cards we draw off of Valakut Exploration. Ahh!!! Okay rant done.
2) I feel like slotting out Perilous Forays is crazy talk. Other sac outlets need Omnath, Locus of Rage AND creatures to sac to take effect. Perilous Forays only needs Omnath, Locus of Rage in play - plus an upside of comboing off - plus an upside of working towards the burn win con.
3) I can see slotting out Force of Vigor. It is a flex card after all. Personally, I think 0 mana removal is too broken to cut through.
4) Ancient Greenwarden may be a godlike card, but I'd like to play devil's advocate and remind you that it is both expensive and plays towards a creature overrun win con just like Doubling Season. I respect and even back your choice to add this card, but I think it's just a little clunky and on the for-fun side.
5) Isn't Roiling Regrowth a strictly worse Springbloom Druid? Not that I'm against adding more cheap mana ramp, but I would personally add Springbloom Druid back first. For the record, I do agree with Ranger's Path being on the chopping block. Same goes for Migration Path. On paper they look just fine. In testing, I'd be happy to see one or both go.
6) I'm worried that Nahiri's Lithoforming may de-ramp us in some games resulting in an autoloss. The risk is too high for this card in too many hand states in my opinion.
7) I think Moraug, Fury of Akoum is a great reason to be back IN for the creature overrun win con. However, it benefits greatly from Doubling Season effects and doesn't synergize at all with Where Ancients Tread or sacrificing effects. This once again comes down to priority of win cons. If we're more in burn, which I personally believe us to be, than I would recommend against this.
Next, I'd like your thoughts on a few cards as additions to the deck if you wouldn't mind!
1) Play Tooth and Nail, paying it's entwine cost (9 cmc total - which is nothing for this deck)
3) When they both hit the battlefield, Terror will see Sekki and trigger causing 8 dmg to a target. In this case, point that damage right back at Sekki.
4) Sekki will lose all of it's counters, creating 8x 1/1 faeries and going to the graveyard.
5) Terror sees these 8 faeries coming in, pointing this 8 damage at a player's face.
6) Then sac all 8 faeries to bring Sekki back. (Sekki's last ability is played from the grave)
7) Rinse and repeat for an infinite damage combo.
In my opinion, adding 1 card to the deck, Sekki, Seasons' Guide, isn't a tall ask for an extra infinite combo in the deck. We already have creature tutors, so Tooth and Nail isn't even required. But after the addition of Sekki, Seasons' Guide, adding 1 more card, Tooth and Nail, instantly wins us many games when we draw it for just 9 mana. Not only do I think you could cut Craterhoof Behemoth for this combo but Craterhoof Behemoth works towards a creature overrun win con, so I'd argue it's on the chopping block anyways! You could use Avenger of Zendikar and Purphoros, God of the Forge as backup Tooth and Nail targets for the burn win con. To take this one step further, with the addition of a card that can win us the game if resolved, why not run Gamble? Twice the chance to draw into a quick and easy win con with added upside of 1 cmc and flexibility.
2) Thoughts on Skullclamp? I think it's a disgustingly good card for draw and we already have sac outlets to trigger it.
3) Thoughts on re-adding Sylvan Scrying? Ever since the removal of Tempt with Discovery, I've been missing nonbasic land tutors. Lets compare Sylvan Scrying to Rampant Growth. Rampant Growth gives us 1 mana ramp for 2 mana to use as early as turn 3. Sylvan Scrying at the very least does the same if we search up Ancient Tomb. And I think it has so much more upside if we draw it mid or late game too.
4) Thoughts on Sensei's Divining Top? I think it feels great to draw in opening hand and makes early game even more consistent.
Thanks for your time in answering my posts. I know they can be a little long!
2 weeks ago
Hey VexenX, I have to say that I agree with a lot of your reasoning but do not agree with your choices to cut, our lists do differ slightly so that might be part of it.
I think Force of Vigor is far too good to cut, we are already light on interaction/removal so I can't get behind this especially as with the added draw we are more likely to find our interaction.
Moraug, Fury of Akoum is one of those cards I think will work best in a different build. I am sure if you get it into play whilst you have a board then it'll win you games. Maybe if you can play it the turn after Omnath and swing in you can get value from it but I am not convinced at this stage.
I would still cut Perilous Forays as since I mentioned it in my previous comment I think it is in my top 2 cards to cut first.
2 weeks ago
As much as I want to like the the flip lands I just don't think any of them are good enough to make the cut. I expect to see them floating around other Om_rath builds, I just don't think bad lands with bad effects are worth the utility. My opinion of course.
Out of all the great offerings from Zendikar Rising I think there are four cards for sure going in the deck, 1 that I will most likely add, and 2 that I want to add, but won't.
The four cards that for sure make the cut are:
Ancient Greenwarden - Best "Auto Include" for this deck in a while! Both effects are amazing for us, and being on a body that can block most flyers is great!
Valakut Exploration - Conditional card draw, but still powerful. The damage on the back end is more cute then game changing, but it might kill some low life totals in a pinch.
That card that I want to add but might not:
Moraug, Fury of Akoum - I love the power and fun behind this effect. The problem is that this build does not focus to much on swinging in, but Moraug might just be a flap. I can see this still being good when you can get 3 combats with even just 4 5/5s swining!
The two cards that I like but arn't good enough to make the list:
Phylath, World Sculptor - Although this card is screaming for Om_rath's attention, I just don't think it is good enough to take up a 6 cmc slot in this deck.
Ashaya, Soul of the Wild - This protects from SOME removal, but not nearly enough to be worth including. Throw it in your Omnath, Locus of the Roil tribal deck, but I don't think it is good enough for us here.
The struggle now is finding 4-5 cards to cut... This is what I came up with:
Perilous Forays OUT FOR Moraug, Fury of Akoum - Perilous is one of our OG cards, but it has been under-performing lately. With all the creature tutors in the deck now I think I am relying way more on pulling out answers that way.
Genesis Wave OUT FOR Nahiri's Lithoforming - The change I'm least sure about. I LOVE throwing a bunch of mana into Genesis Wave but I've noticed it was overkill most of the times I've cast it. Regardless, it sure is cool!...
Ranger's Path OUT FOR Roiling Regrowth - I can already hear people saying I should cut Migration Path instead, but I like the ability to cycle more then the marginally better mana fixing. I have never struggled to hit the colors I needed with this deck.
What do you guys think about my changes? Is there anything you can come up with to save Genesis Wave? I look forward to hearing back from all of you!
3 weeks ago
- Card draw:
- Sylvan Library : Card draw.
- Elvish Visionary : Cheap, cantrip, shaman.
- Mosswort Bridge : Pseudo cantrip.
- Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip : Pseudo cantrip. Flip = better Gaea's Cradle.
- Blighted Woodland : Comes into play untapped. Ramp card mid-lategame.
- Path of Ancestry : Potential card filter.
- Strip Mine : Utility land.
- Gingerbread Cabin : Forest with minor upside. No reason not to play it in mono green.
- Fauna Shaman : Tutor, shaman.
- Noxious Revival : Manaless. Allows another shot for wincons.
- Scavenging Ooze : Manasink. graveyard disruption.
- Card draw:
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary : Card draw.
- Beast Whisperer : Green conditional card draw.
- Guardian Project : Green conditional card draw.
- Runic Armasaur : Card draw (meta dependent).
- Compost : Card draw (meta dependent).
- Sakura-Tribe Scout : Early game shaman. Mana acceleration.
- Genesis Wave : Pseudo card advantage.
- Arch of Orazca : Card draw.
- Win more:
- Myojin of Life's Web : Too expensive. Very likely that you do not have enough cards in hand to make this worthwhile lategame.
- Patron of the Orochi : Quest for Renewal is cheaper.
- Gigantomancer : Cute, but 8 mana is too much for this kind of effect.
- Archetype of Endurance : Win more card. No real synergy. Asceticism Is better (although also not recommended).
- Trolls of Tel-Jilad : This is a bad card.
- Soul of the Harvest : Beast Whisperer / Guardian Project, cheaper. Almost same effect.
- Sakiko, Mother of Summer : Too expensive. Doesn't do enough for mana cost.
- Sage of Ancient Lore Flip : Very likely that you do not have enough cards in hand to make this worthwhile mid-lategame.
- Wildheart Invoker : This is a bad card.
- Sakura-Tribe Springcaller : This is a bad card.
- Loaming Shaman : Not enough card draw that allows you to get your desired cards in you hand.
- Essence Warden : This is a bad card.
- Vines of Vastwood : Very situational card.
- Squall Line : Not very good card. Situational.
- Krosan Grip : Expensive situational removal.
- Gilded Lotus : Unnecessary ramp.
- Tranquil Grove : Unless your meta plays a lot of enchantments, not really necessary. Otherwise, recommmend Back to Nature instead.
- Beastmaster Ascension : Your creatures are not big enough for this to work consistently.
- Spidersilk Armor: No tutors, not enough card draw to obtain it. Unreliable flyer prevention. Silklash Spider Will hold off flyers with tutors.
Staple cards are cards I recommend obtaining and using, since they are almost always good cards to have in any green deck. The rest is up to preference and should be taken with a grain of salt. I hope I could be of some use to you.