|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Rare|
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Force of Vigor
If it's not your turn, you may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy up to two target artifacts and/or enchantments.
Force of Vigor Discussion
15 hours ago
jaymc1130 I fully agree, even on many websites like Untap where I can play with many cEDH fanatics with the best decks, where it is faster than paper (no shuffling actually makes things pretty fast), games set up with many of my really competitive friends can take roughly 45 minutes on the low, with my last game taking 2 and a half hours, with a Shuffle Hulk T&T build, an Opus Thief build, an Urza build, and a Teferi build.
Many games of even turn 2-5 wins even can take a while, with complex politics, stack manipulation, and long combo turns slowed by opposing interactive spells or abilities. The only recent turn 1 win that I had seen in the last year in my cEDH experience still took 32 minutes to go through with a Force of Vigor and a Force of Will being used at inopportune states once people caught on to just how scary the start of Crypt into Vault into a Talisman into a cast Dramatic Reversal was with Force backup (this game was in paper, so a lot of that time was in shuffling, mulligans, etc).
While I would never claim that games can't go 10 minutes, but that means that A: Shuffling, introductions/greetings, mulligans and reshuffles took less than that and that a player was able to win within the first 2 turns, as after that easily enough interaction and setup would have been put enough time on the clock to rack up well past 10. That is absurd. Not impossible, but dang absurd.
5 days ago
Thanks for the input Bighimmy!
So I've gone through the list and my understanding is that you mean proactive interaction/removal. So from the deck list thus far there is:
- Assassin's Trophy
- Beast Within
- Windgrace's Judgement
- Pernicious Deed
- World Shaper
- Acidic Slime
For boardwipes there are:
Now for some of the other options I've gone through in the past I personally don't feel like a few of them are really worth it, and feel free to discuss these since there's always going to be something that I'm missing or haven't really thought about. My thoughts on:
- Chaos Warp : This is an attractive option, it deals with anything and you can even use it on your own permanents to try and spin into something more useful. It means that certain threats don't go to the graveyard (for reanimation or death triggers) and can get lost in the deck. However, from past experience I'm much more a fan of Assassin's Trophy as you can then Bojuka Bog to exile the threat along with the rest of the graveyard. This is a less risky option, and I completely understand why people go to it but I know I'll be kicking myself once a Chaos Warp turns a threat into a bigger threat.
- Gaze of Granite : Pernicious Deed just does everything that Gaze of Granite does that much better with the only exception being planeswalkers. You don't have to sink all your mana into the casting (so if it gets countered it's not a complete loss) and furthermore you can use Pernicious Deed at instant speed, which is a massive way to interact with non-creature permanent-based strategies (such as enchantments and artifacts).
- Go for the Throat / Doom Blade / Dismember / Abrupt Decay : I'm not a massive fan of conditional removal in commander because my rule of thumb is that the broadest answer is the best answer the vast majority of cases.
- Putrefy : for the longest time I played this in the deck before Ravnica Allegiances rolled around and Bedevil took its place. The ability to interact with planeswalkers is fantastic, but the key thing I think is that the inability to regenerate clause from Putrefy isn't of massive concern for this deck for a couple of reasons. Firstly regeneration isn't particularly common, and when it is you're dealing with Asceticism in which case you're not Putrefying anything. Otherwise you have access to Damnation which doesn't allow regeneration and Toxic Deluge which also doesn't allow regeneration.
- Force of Vigor : I started playing this in my Ayula, Queen Among Bears commander deck and in mono green it is the best answer to a lot of early game and late game threats. Current this deck has 42 green cards so there's no shortage of fodder to play this for free on your opponent's turn, but I'm unsure as to what this supercedes in the deck currently.
- Casualties of War : as a budget option this is fine but the sorcery speed makes this lacklustre.
- Noxious Revival : This was on the radar for a while when I was concerned about getting Glacial Chasm destroyed and then getting exiled, however there is not really a reliable way to recur this effect, and it is not particularly powerful (though has some utility due to being able to play it at instant speed for nothing). My other concern was that it requires an additional step to get it into hand, so if you draw it for turn, you would need a way to draw an additional card to then get whatever you need from the graveyard to your hand. As a redundant effect for Eternal Witness I understand, however I think it is too much of a corner case and I would be more of a fan of Regrowth -like as you will have access massive amounts of excess mana from Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers . I imagine something like this will come along some time in the near future, it's only a matter of time.
- Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast / Guttural Response : I find that this angle of interaction is far too narrow to really be applicable unless you know there is a very high chance of versing counterspells in your local meta. This is why I find that Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a better solution to this problem, primarily because it can be searched off abilities and deals with the majority of effects while being difficult to interact with itself. Now the way your opponents can get around this is effects like Venser, Shaper Savant , Narset's Reversal or any other Unsubstantiate -type abilities. I learned to simply accept this as a weakness of the deck given the colours. The archetype is rather weak to its inability to interact with the stack, but I think there are more unconventional ways around this, such as Contamination to punish their mana base or by waiting until your counter-laden opponents are tapped out from trying to deal with each other. I think that this is a fair trade off for this deck being difficult to interact with.
The main weakness of this deck I believe is its inability to deal with mill and combo effectively, vulnerability to bounce effects on the stack like Venser, Shaper Savant and counterspells. I've found that these weaknesses can be reduced with a couple of strategies:
- Playing some political cards Pir's Whim + Tempt with Discovery + Rites of Flourishing to try and ameliorate the board (and not draw the ire of anyone who might have a counter available),
- Building up a solid land base from both a deckbuilding and play perspective to support a late-game comeback due to the lack of cards that effectively interact with land-base strategies, and
- The ability to play around counterspells and interaction, such as Boseiju, Who Shelters All and reliance on using abilities rather than just spells.
So after a little more testing, Elvish Reclaimer is an absolute house in being able to effectively Crop Rotation each turn to more reliable tutor out either ramping or utility land. The summoning sickness issue means that again this does not pull this deck back from the brink in the late game, but as an early game drop it provides access to both stocking the graveyard for Lord Windgrace and fixing mana for the later game. I regret my initial skepticism on this addition and think it is a great upgrade for the deck.
I am planning on adding in Korvold, Fae-Cursed King shortly because I think another Gitrog Monster will be welcome here. I think I'll finally have to pull the trigger on cutting Zuran Orb , it's been there since the start...
6 days ago
Force of Vigor would definitely be a good addition, and I think I went with Relic Crush over Krosan Grip for the multi-target (or to save $3). This deck hasn't been actively updated in a couple years (I think I added Anointed Procession to the maybeboard).
6 days ago
2 weeks ago
Staff of Domination makes selvala go infinite with a creature that has 6 power.
Umbral Mantle make her infinite with a creature that has 5 power.
To make the deck efficient you need fast mana, big creature that are cheap. Just there to draw cards and ramp mana off of, like Phyrexian Dreadnought .
Also, Force of Vigor . Get it. Nothing is more satisfying than shutting people's turn 1 artifact ramp down before you even start your first turn. Literally ruins games.
Get you cmc way down. Bellow 3 or bust. It'll make your deck so much faster.
That's all I got. But go look at my selvala and give it some playtests. There are zero dead cards in that deck and it consistently runs like a machine. Everything serves it's purpose.
2 weeks ago
4 weeks ago
Yesteday I realised that Dockside Extortionist enables a smooth kill in this situation. Zur started with Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith . Urza slammed down his hand will all the ramp, finished with a Tangle Wire , a turn later Static Orb ...board was heavy with arifacts. I was able to remove tangle wire and orb with Force of Vigor before my t3, so I could untap and play Dockside Extortionist into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Najeela. Copy DE with Kiki for a ton of new treasures.
Urza was cast, tried to follow up with Capture of Jingzhou for a crushing additional turn, which I prevented/copied with Narset's Reversal . Then I realised that I could attack with Kiki, use Najeela to untap and copy DE for infinitely untapping Kiki during the first combat (works at 6+ treasures from DE).
Talking about the match, we found that the new Faeburrow Elder , which is effectively a Bloom Tender with vigilance, would also randomly go infinite with Najeela if there are 5 colours among permanents. Got to check how much a cmc 3 ramp piece fits into this deck though. The random combo potential looks appealing though because it's better than Druids' Repository on its own imo. Even when it doesn't go infinite, making the extra combat only cost 1 or 2 mana each time can be pretty lethal in the mid/late game.
1 month ago
Shit last one (waited too long to edit.. sry!)
I don't run much removal just because of how early I expect things to happen, but also my meta didn't have much stax until recently one of the guys acquired a fully tuned Urza and a Derevi player joined in. Now I'll probably add Cursed Totem , Force of Vigor and some more removal.
I rely heavily on Boseiju, Pyroblast, Red/blast, and Veil on/around the turns I expect to go off.
What do you think?
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