Liliana of the Veil

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vintage Legal
Casual Legal
Custom Legal
Quest Magic Legal

Liliana of the Veil

Planeswalker — Liliana

+1: Each player discards a card.

-2: Target player sacrifices a creature.

-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. That player sacrifices all permanents in the pile of their choice.

legendofa on Men of Wealth and Taste

3 weeks ago

Bulldawg1310 Thanks for the feedback!

I was using Dauthi Voidwalker in some tests, and it's right on the edge of inclusion. I'll switch it back in and test some more.

I have to admit, I haven't tried Liliana of the Veil in this line. I'll try to make room as I solidify the decklist. And yeah, it's a pricy card, but I happen to have one on hand in another deck, and I playtest decks on one of the free online programs.

Bulldawg1310 on Men of Wealth and Taste

3 weeks ago

Dauthi Voidwalker can give you a LOT of advantage when played with thoughtseize. you may be running too many of the new ob. while it is a cool card i dont know if hes better than that synergy between voidwalker and thoughtseize, or even Liliana of the Veil but i understand why shes left out as expensive of a card as she is.

Guerric on Deck Archetypes in EDH

1 month ago

Hi all! There's an interesting question I've been pondering lately, and I thought I'd share some of my reflections on it and get input from all of you. In sixty card magic we have deck archetypes, namely aggro, control, midrange, combo, and tempo. In commander obviously things look pretty different, and several years ago on the Command Zone podcast they said that like in limited, there aren't really deck archetypes this way, just different flavors of midrange.

As the format has developed and changed a lot over the years I do think something like these archetypes exists in commander, they're just different. For those familiar with sixty card formats some of the hard and fast rules for those archetypes in sixty card magic do not apply, and there certainly is more fluidity on commander and other unique multiplayer strategies as well (ex. Group Hug). Nonetheless, I think the outline of most of these archetypes is still relevant. Here is how I think it plays out-

1) Aggro- I think something more like classic aggro has only become viable in commander in the past couple of years, but I think it is definitely a thing now. In sixty card magic, most creatures are in the one to three drop range, there is often no focus on card draw, and everything in the deck serves to get a single player to zero as quickly as possible. Obviously in commander we need raw engines, some ramp, and are going to play more powerful cards. That being said, I think strategies built around attacking with high value, low cmc creatures from the early game onwards characterizes aggro in commander. This wasn't viable a few years ago due to the lack of board state protection, and really only token pump decks and creature cheat decks tended to do well. But the printing of many premium white board state protection spells like Flawless Maneuver, Teferi's Protection, and Semester's End has changed up the formula a bit. Attacking low to the ground and early is a keystone of aggro strategies, but so are on attack triggers. We have so many of these now, and they incentivize keeping our force swinging every turn. Commanders like Akiri, Fearless Voyager and Trynn, Champion of Freedom incentivize attacking in order to draw cards, make tokens, or do other things the deck is going to want to do. Unlike sixty card magic, we will need to be able to draw cards, and play some removal and interaction, though we'll play fewer pieces of the latter here than in other decks since they compete with resources to keep up the attack. We also need to play one-sided board wipes wherever we have the option, because we can't afford to lose our own board state. We'll also need a way to get through for damage once our opponents' defenses are up, and as such things that give our creatures menace, landwalk, flying, deathtouch or indestructible are key as they help us keep up the assault. We're also very in favor of a few key pump spells to help us finish out the game like Jazal Goldmane or Coat of Arms.

2) Midrange- In sixty card magic midrange is characterized by playing some of the most powerful cards on every point in the curve, and play more removal than aggro decks. Oftentimes they are characterized as "the growing threat." A classic and famous example was the classic Modern Jund deck that Reid Duke piloted several years ago. One of its touchstones was playing Tarmogoyf on turn 2. The goyfs could attack or block where necessary, but they would grow more unstoppable as the game went on, until they were dropping haymakers like Liliana of the Veil. They would use cards like Dark Confidant to keep their hand full till they could inevitably win. In a way, these sorts of decks mirror something of what we see in all commander decks in that they play removal, draw, and powerful cards. Yet what I think sets them apart is this idea of the growing threat, and that they play more removal than aggro decks. One way in which I think some midrange commanders work is to have abilities that allow them to turn other cards into Tarmogoyf like threats. Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Giada, Font of Hope use +1/+1 counters to turn small evasive threates into significant ones. In this sense, I think a lot of counter decks fit well in the midrange categories. These decks will attack, but they don't have to like aggro decks, and are more willing to conserve resources and work on developing board state where feasible. They often have engines that benefit their board passively from the passage of time, and as such they can play more removal and let their board build itself. They still want to protect their board state, and some of the cards from aggro decks that do this or simply counterspells can help with this, and one-sided board wipes are usually th best kind for midrange decks as well.

3) Control- Control decks in sixty card magic are built on trying to shut down almost everything an opponent is trying to do via counterspells and removal until you can work towards a win con. This obviously is not possible in commander where you can not shut down three other players with just counterspells and removal alone, and isn't always necessary since opponents can also shut down each other. As such, controlling strategies fit into two categories: stax and regular control. With stax pieces that shut off lands and mana rocks, eEDH controlling strategies indeed can effectively shut down three other players, usually finding a way to work through it themselves in order to build towards a win con. In standard EDH, heavy land-based stax like that is frowned upon, but cards that disrupt play in other ways (ex. Blind Obedience as well as counterspells and removal are fair game. These decks are still building towards a win con by slowing opponents down, and will devote far more slots to disruption and removal than aggro and midrange decks. They may win with an infinite combo, a planeswalker, a few premium attacking creatures, or in other ways, but most of the deck is devoted to protecting themselves and disrupting opponents. Controlling decks are more likely to play reciprocal board wipes, and generally benefit from keeping the board clear of threats at most times.

4) Combo- Combo decks also exist along a spectrum in EDH, though this archetype is most similar to sixty card magic. The formula is almost unchanged for cEDH, where most of a deck is devoted to playing and protecting a single combo. Outside of cEDH, it is worth mentioning that infinite combos can be included in almost any archetype in the format as a backup win con when other plans go sideways. What makes it a combo deck is that the entire deck is focused on pulling out one of a variety of sometimes elaborate combos, and these decks are generally geared more towards Johnnies than Spikes. A good example would be combo decks built around Teysa, Orzhov Scion that can put together the Darkest Hour in a variety of ways, as well as play Reveillark + Karmic Guide and/or Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood in order to win. These decks play out as trying to put together a combo while fending off opponents with removal and interaction.

5) Tempo- Some might argue that there is no such thing as tempo decks in commander, but it's worth mentioning that they're pretty rare even in sixty card magic across formats. In sixty card magic tempo decks adopt a "disruptive aggro" philosophy, where they slowly chip away at an opponent's life total with small, cheap, evasive creatures, while always holding mana open to protect their board and disrupt threats. While "chipping away" life totals isn't much of a strategy in a multiplayer strategy, I do think there are decks that play out along the lines of this disruptive aggro strategy. As an example, Ranar the Ever-Watchful and Alela, Artful Provocateur can be played this way, where the flying tokens they generate are the main win con, and the rest of the deck is devoted to holding mana open to protect this main game plan and stop others from winning. Unlike in sixty card decks these may win all at once with token pump effects or other affects, but this is the main way.

What do you all think? Do you think there are deck archetypes like this in EDH? Why or why not? What qualifications would you add or take away about them if you do?

OtiserieChicken on Sultai Murktide Tempo

1 month ago

thanks Chasmolinker! My testing has definitely shown that there's not enough graveyard support to warrant playing 4x Murktide Regent. In an ideal world, Murktide Regent is meant to be a finisher that comes down backed up by Counterspell or Force of Negation. Grim Flayer and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip are meant to be tempo plays that help fill the graveyard in the early to mid game. I think Grim Flayer is very vulnerable to Lightning Bolt and Unholy Heat. I am enjoying this deck, but I feel like I need to pick a direction, either focusing on early game with Delver of Secrets  Flip or mid game tempo with planeswalkers like Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Niko9 on Mono Black Budget Reanimator

2 months ago

Always fun to play big splashy creatures and never pay their mana costs : ) I'm asking because I'm curious, but do you often use Thoughtseize and Unmask on yourself to put creatures in the graveyard? That is very interesting to me if that's the case. I wonder if similar effects on bodies would be good, such as Rankle, Master of Pranks and Liliana of the Veil They're both kinda pricey, and I don't know, maybe you don't need them, I'm just throwing out ideas : )

Honestly, just playing Elesh Norn with no white mana gets a big thumbs up from me. That's how you know that your reanimating is lefit : )

Icbrgr on Will this 7-rack be competitive?

2 months ago

I like the deck +1

The only things I'd advocate/work toward would be Smallpox and Nether Spirit and Liliana of the Veil and a 4th copy of Shrieking Affliction... maybe Night's Whisper

But on its face the deck as you have it seems like it should do just fine and I'd play it... GOOD LUCK!

wallisface on Primers. For which decks you …

2 months ago

Yeah i think a tldr; segment would be ideal - something that gives people a good overview of what’s going on without the extraneous detail.

It’s possibly worth considering who you expect your target audience to be reading your lengthier descriptions:

  • If you’re expecting your readers to be capable magic players, then you probably want to avoid spoon-feeding obvious information. Everyone knows Liliana of the Veil is good, so a segment on her might be superfluous.

  • If you’re expecting your readers to be beginners, then you need to be careful about overwhelming them with interactions. These players are probably more interested in building a deck for $50, and having fun, than anything else.

  • Are you expecting your reader to be buying the deck as-is, or providing you feedback on ways to improve your brew? Using it as a basis for their own brews, or just providing you an upvote? Your example reads a lot like a sales-pitch, but then its lacking any details on how it actually performs in the meta. It feels like the description is saying “here’s this great deck i’ve made” when maybe the story needs to be “here’s a homebrew how can we improve it?”. Getting the “story” right for a description feels important for your reading audience.

Chasmolinker on Mono B

2 months ago

Looks close. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Cabal Coffers, and more Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are great in mono B Devotion.


Rotting Regisaur is a nice 3MV creature in place of Mardu Outrider. I personally like Ayara, First of Locthwain for a creature, although Liliana of the Veil is probably the right card for the 3MV slot.
Liliana, Waker of the Dead or Gravelighter could be a budget option.

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