|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masterpiece Series: Kaladesh Inventions (MPS)||Mythic Rare|
|From the Vault: Exiled (V09)||Mythic Rare|
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As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to play costs three mana to play. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost to play costs to play instead.)
16 hours ago
Colonel_Kink In my own opinion, the most consistent way to combo isn't after interaction is used, but whilst it's being used. Respond with Flash-Hulk in response to the counter-war over Isochron Scepter .
Rarely does an entire board run out of answers, rather, they run out of specific answers or the resources to use them, like if they are tapped out.
Now, separate from simply discussing individual deck's ability to compete, many, many more factors come into play.
In total, I believe the core things a deck needs can be simplified to 3 things:
How well it is tuned to its meta.
How well the pilot is able to judge tells, evaluate board states, play politics, memorize cards, sequence plays, and mulligan properly.
How efficient in card quality the deck is.
The first simply means whether or not the deck is easily hated out and how well it can hate out other decks in the game. If you want to play a Shimmer Zur Storm list, you want to be able to know the metagame doesn't run a large package of anti-storm cards like Damping Sphere , or too much in the way of anti-creature. You also need to know roughly the styles of decks it will face, to run proper interaction, like do I run Delay against Food Chain or Flusterstorm against counter-wars and storm builds?
The second is the pilot's skills. Obviously skill takes a major role in wins, but in cEDH there is an incredible amount of ceiling that can be reached that many people don't realize. From playing poker, you can easily tell how much tells have to do with reading opponents' hands. Tells such as if an opponent often layers cards from low-cmc front to high-cmc back, if they read cards that they don't know, and you can use this extra information to really get better winrates.
Additionally, while most cEDH players can properly sequence turns, see detailed lines, and know most played cards, I still see veterans just miss things that seem relatively obvious, but I realize are shortcutted so often that they aren't. I went recently against an Emry, Lurker of the Loch artifact storm build, who milled a Fatestitcher and Lotus Petal when it entered on turn two. An opponent on Tana and Tymna Blood Pod dropped a Trinisphere , and when it got back to the Emry player they dropped Mirran Spy and had 2 mana left. I knew they had infinite mana, but they didn't realize it.
They thought because of Trinisphere they couldn't loop Lotus Petal , Emry, Lucker of the Loch, and Mirran Spy , but because Fatestitcher could come back to tap Trinisphere down, it could. They passed, and because of a Windfall from me, we saw they had a Stroke of Genius , Mental Misstep , and some more protective elements needed to win. They just didn't know how Trinisphere worked, and never remembered the 'untapped' clause.
The last is simply saying to run a good deck with good cards. Often this implies if you have the other two you can get to the point where you are effective in a game, with the interaction and well-tuned wincon of the first point, and can close out the game.
1 week ago
Hey man! I got a few suggestions. Feel free to ignore any/all of them:
I kinda agree with PhaylogenX: Valiant Knight seems pretty good here (I see you've included it). Another pair of cards to consider for this type of role are Knight Exemplar and Kinsbaile Cavalier . They're like... good.
I think Wear / Tear is likely better than your Crush Contraband . It costs less to cast if you're only targeting one or the other, and it still costs less than Crush Contraband if you're using both halves. However, it IS destroy rather than exile; this is frequently not an issue, but if it is a meta call please do ignore me.
Since you're in black, you have access to the best tutors. Unfortunately, many of them are expensive: Things like Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor and Imperial Seal are gonna set you back a lot. Consider running things like Dark Petition , Diabolic Tutor and Mastermind's Acquisition are all good cards.
Your rocks could use some work. I like the signets, but I like the talismans more. Talisman of Hierarchy , Talisman of Conviction and Talisman of Indulgence are all better than their respective signets.
You may want to consider some of the death and taxes staples. Mother of Runes and Giver of Runes are good ways to protect 'ya bois. Rest in Peace can hose a lot of decks, especially the ones I play. More generally, Stax and Hatebears can blow chunks on OPs. Winter Orb can slow down opponents from responding to your on-board pressure; Trinisphere is similar but expensive. Price of Glory can disincentivize counter-magic; Aura of Silence taxes one-sidedly in your favor.
Right. That's all I got. Good luck!
1 week ago
1 week ago
I'm assuming this is a budgetless list, so my first question is why no Mox Opal ? Oversight or intentional?
Next, how do you handle resolved creatures? You have three spells capable of removing a critter off the board, in Chain of Vapor Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge , but that's about it from what I can see. Why don't you run Ensnaring Bridge Humility Damnation or similar? I understand you want to be proactive with counterspells but there's no way you can lock the other 3 players with 1 for 1 trades while you're also building your board. Also consider that bouncing THEN countering a spell is 2-for-1'ing yourself when you could just Swords to Plowshares it. Literally every deck features a creature as the commander so its not like you won't have targets except the unbelievably rare pod of 4 PW commanders.
Are you aware in that you have a wincon with Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam + Silence + Brainstorm + Windfall + Yawgmoth's Will ? I don't see the line listed despite being a built in backup if both labman + Jace are exiled. I see Yawgill + Grace listed but it doesn't look like you realize you can force 99+ draws to win.
Have you considered running tutor hate in tandem with Scheming Symmetry ? Aven Mindcensor or Leonin Arbiter break parity and are worth running even without Symmetry. I understand this is meant to be a bear-lite build but with how many wheels (free draws for opponents) you're running, turning off tutors may save your bacon. Also works well with Wishclaw which you seem to enjoy (its a Grim Tutor for first activation but being reusable for cheap unconditional tutor is fantastic so I have mixed feelings)
Have you considered miracle cards for Aminatous +1? Having the ability to always get them for the miracle cost is pretty rad. Banishing Stroke Devastation Tide Temporal Mastery Terminus . The timewalk one should be worth a consideration for sure. Miracle cards also make great surprise plays with EOT Vampiric Tutor or Mystical Tutor
Have you played against a discard stax deck like Nath or a mana denial stax deck yet? Your low amount of removal is leading me to believe that a resolved Trinisphere or Oppression makes this deck cry big sad tears.
Why would I choose Aminatou as the commander over Zur for a similar build? Zur can consistently grab Waste Not to kickstart wheel lines or value grinders like Necropotence Rhystic Study . I like the Aminatou interaction with Wishclaw but I don't think that single interaction in your 99 can justify the choice when Zur is going to give you 100% consistency. I normally see Aminatou decks run stax pieces that it can break parity on by blinking your own permanents ( Static Orb shutting the game down but you blink a tapped Mana Vault to get far ahead, blinking a 1 counter Tangle Wire to reset it, untapping your Ancient Tomb while Winter Orb is out, etc.etc.). You could certainly run strong hate cards like Winter Orb without turning off your combo lines. Cost enhancers like Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance might prove unwise though.
Extremely interesting build, curious to see where it goes. Cheers
2 weeks ago
Astrolabe is surprisingly good. Its worth running if you have enough snow basics. Compare it to Chromatic Star which sees play, and you'll like it. It gives 8 in hand starting turn 2 after dropping turn 1, while Chromatics give 7 in hand starting turn 2. If you aren't getting value from recurring the Chromatics to draw, then Astrolabe is worlds ahead.
The spirit guides are real nice, and they give some turn 1 or 2 explosiveness
Highly recommend the wild growths. They're like turn 1 dorks without summoning sickness who are removed by far fewer things than regular turn 1 dorks.
Search for Tomorrow is similar to Rampant Growth in that you will have 4 mana on turn 3 assuming land drops. It has the unfortunate drawback of being susceptible to taxing stax effects, so pass this over if you're running cost enhancers or expecting to play decks that do.
Karametra's Acolyte is pretty rad, but not helpful early. Swallow your pride and get Priest of Titania for $5, it plays in many cEDH builds so its a cheap worthwhile staple. Acolyte is helpful if your deck wants to hit infinite mana with an untapper and big dorks, but those lists will already recommend running Acolyte anyways. Not going to help you against Trinisphere and friends as much as you're picturing.
I also agree that if you have a Chromatic Lantern you should run it. While a 3 rock isn't ideal, the colorfixing that happens even after BM is fantastic. Not as many keepable hands as 2 rocks but there's trade offs to everything I suppose.
2 weeks ago
You've correctly identified some methods already used (signets, dorks) which are extremely common in decks. This is because they 1) ramp 2) color fix 3) spread mana across permanent types to avoid getting wiped. You should DEFINITELY run the signets/talismans and available dorks, they are so incredibly efficient at what they do and at very low real dollar cost, and are diversified to avoid getting totally wiped. I know you want more lands but also consider Armageddon only costs $4 and has already had so many printings and you will see it in competitive decks and other low-tuner competitive decks. If you run Blood Moon on a budget, absolutely run the talismans and signets I can't stress that enough.
However, being a budget boy who wants to go fast myself, I've stumbled across similar questions before, so I'm more than willing to share what I've gleaned. You pretty much want cards that WILL come down turn 1 or 2, cards that give free stuff for cheap $$$, or or pump up those basic land #'s. You may also notice that in typical Blood Pod lists, there aren't that many red cards or red mana sources, and that many of my recommendations are green. You're going to want to weight your colors so red is a smaller part and to run very few red lands because all your nonbasics become Mountains, so run your nonbasics to include a red splash and then run more forests.
It is a Rampant Growth on legs that can block-then-sac on annoying early creatures like Tymna the Weaver . Brings you to a basic so works with BM, it can swing to get Tymna triggers. It spiked a while ago but its still decently cheap to buy.
Nature's Lore is the best of these three, as the forest enters untapped and it can grab shocklands with a Forest type if you dont have BM out. Growth gives the most utility by giving you any basic land for BM. Farseek gives any but a forest, but you have to make a green to cast it so you've got at least one green somehow. These are extremely playable fixer/ramp cards on a budget and are really going to help you with a budget Blood Moon land base. I recommend these over the 3 CMC counterparts Cultivate Kodama's Reach because they come out a turn faster so far lower chance you're going to get staxed out. They curve extremely well into having 4 mana on turn 3 (Tana on turn 3?), as opposed to using all your turn 3 mana for a big turn 4. They also raise the amount of keepable hands you will have, as 2 mana + growth gets you to Tymna, while 2 mana + Cultivate is a mulligan more times. They're even enjoyable to see sometimes late game after MLD.
Insane color fixing and it cantrips, the only problem is you have to run snow-basics instead. If you happen to have enough snow basics laying around, this is a very solid bet for color fixing.
One of these is much cheaper to purchase, so I highly recommend that one. Fixes and cantrips, you really don't mind drawing them late at all.
Color fixer and ramper, works real well with BM. Just add creatures.
If you have them, they will deck thin + get you to the correct basic land. I know fetchlands are expensive, so also consider that there is a lesser known cycle of mirage ETB tapped fetchlands, while definitely worse, are much cheaper. Sleeper cards tagged for your convenience Flood Plain Bad River Rocky Tar Pit Mountain Valley Grasslands . Also DEFINITELY run Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if you don't already. More sleeper fetches that might interest you Krosan Verge Thawing Glaciers
Nice replacements for Mox Opal and Mox Diamond . They let you hit signets/talismans/growths/big dorks on turn 1. They help you escape from underneath Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance . They are slot intensive, but with Tymna in command zone to guarantee draws I would also highly recommend these. These will be invaluable in helping you get a stronger start than more expensive opposing stax decks. They're a small hit to the wallet but once again, fraction of the price of Opal/Diamond.
I didn't see these listed in the OP or in comments, so I definitely wanted to bring them up. Work extremely well to accelerate and color fix, they also work with Blood Moon . They're enchantments so it gives extra diversity from creatures/artifacts against wipes. Works extremely well with Arbor Elf and Voyaging Satyr
Tutors basic land of your choice to your hand. There are a couple downsides though 1) Doesn't ramp you at all 2) Most cards with landcycling aren't very good for the actual spell. Landcycling does have a few big perks though 1) its an activated ability, which makes it MUCH harder to interact with and mostly immune to stax effects 2) minor bonus utility of actually playing the card 3) it will become a land eventually so it dodges more hate than other permanent types. This would be effective if you had other strong stax decks in your meta, or a crazy amount of counterspells, but otherwise I'd try one of the other ones I listed first.
3 weeks ago
, Great recommendations and i appreciate the help. I own like maybe half of those but a lot of the really good ones i have in my more competitive decks. and 90% of them are quite expensive. Imperial Seal is ridiculously expensive.as is Vampiric Tutor , Pact of Negation , Trinisphere , Mana Drain , Mana Vault and for God's sake Nether Void ; not too mention others are in the $20-$40. i wish i was rich.
3 weeks ago
I am not sure if you actually want to make this competitive or if you were just mentioning that the competitive gauge is silly. I am just going to yeet in assuming the former.
First thing I would do is scrap everything 4 cmc or greater that doesn't almost immediately win me the game. I would cut your creature count by about half if not more. Lastly for cuts, I would put at the very most 33 lands in here and replace the ones you take out with some rocks.
As a mill deck, you will want to shut off your opponent's access to their graveyards. Planar Void is my fav for lazav, but Grafdigger's Cage , Nihil Spellbomb , Relic of Progenitus , and Silent Gravestone all really do the trick.
Your counterspell package should probably drop all of the ones greater than 2 cmc and add in Swan Song , Delay , Flusterstorm , Pact of Negation , Mana Drain , Mana Leak , Mental Misstep , Muddle the Mixture , Tale's End , Force of Will .
Tutors and draw are very quick ways to make an okay deck much better. For draw you can have Necropotence , Mystic Remora , Rhystic Study , Consecrated Sphinx , Brainstorm , Search for Azcanta Flip, Wheel and Deal . The wheel effects are particularly nice because they bring down your opponent's deck size as well. For tutors ya get Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Imperial Seal , Mystical Tutor , Fabricate , Intuition , Merchant Scroll , Whir of Invention .
I would add in artifacts and enchantments that slow your opponents to a point that they can't do much and your counterspells can really devastate them. Cursed Totem , Winter Orb , Static Orb , Trinisphere , Back to Basics , Pithing Needle , Sorcerous Spyglass , Torpor Orb , Nether Void
I hope even if you don't go quite in this direction that this gives you a glimpse into a spikier mindset and can give you some ideas for this and future decks. Cheers!
Trinisphere occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.31%
All decks: 0.02%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%