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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Enchantment Land — Urza's Saga
(As this Saga enters the battlefield and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
: Urza's Saga gains ": Add ."
: Urza's Saga gains ", : Create a 0/0 colourless Construct artifact creature token with "this creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.""
: Search your library for an artifact card with mana cost or , put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle. (Lands do not have a mana cost, not a mana cost of , thus it cannot be searched for this way.)
4 days ago
GHoag thank you for your most critical feedback. I agree with a lot you have to say on this. There are a few things I'd like to discuss further. I'll mirror your format so you know how I am responding to what. Thank you for the praise on the list so far, there is definitely some things to be worked out still. "The pinnacle is a concept only to the unambitious" -flavor text from a card I don't remember lol. (sorry for the novel below)
Regarding Fetchlands, I think the deck thinning is negligible or very hard to notice at most. This aspect of them definitely can't be a bad thing. But playtesting has shown that the negative effects of including them are negligible. I have never been upset about running all 4. Also, the synergy these lands has with Vantress Visions (Virtue of Knowledge) feels reeeally good.
Rite of Replication is expensive mana wise. The purpose of Rite is to get through your whole deck in one go assuming Unesh is on the field, which is not always the case. In my playtesting, it has been very hard to resolve due to mana cost, and when you do meet the mana requirement it is never safe from interaction. Given these flaws, this card might as well say "if you are targetting Unesh and this card resolves, you win the game." With the FOFs, you can pick up all counter magic and free mana rocks on the way down your deck to cast & protect Thassa's Oracle. A non-negligible side effect, this makes choosing piles easier to do because you no longer have to grab sphinxs or other wincons. This wincon is still relevant at this mana cost. I think the jury is still out if this is the best choice though. With inifinite mana you can do something similar, and I'll talk more about this below. Q: Why not add Personal Tutor? Simply because you don't need 3 copies of Rite. I already don't like Mystical Tutor, but the versatility to grab any instant makes it worth it. By the time you meet the mana requirement, you will have seen Rite or Mystical Tutor. Personal Tutor is too narrow to have in a slot, even on the 'Rite' plan.
cEDH meta talk, there is Turbo, midrange, and stax (early win, midgame win, lategame win respectively.) The average win without any interaction is turn 6-7 on this revision. This solidly puts Unesh into midrange. I think he can be sped up a bit with more revisions. Turn 4 is a late win for Turbo, but with enough interaction to stop the turbo player we can get to the midrange and win the game. Unesh suffers against a a few stax pieces. The main ones being Torpor Orb (which doesn't see a ton of play these days), and Null Rod and Collector Ouphe. Collectore Ouphe doesn't feel so bad with our interaction suite, and Null Rod is even more of a nuissance. If both are on the field, it is an absolute nightmare for Unesh.
Creatures: Yes a lot of fat was trimmed, and it took some time to really narrow down the best Sphinxs in these slots. There is still room for improvement here. For instance Vexing Sphinx feels awful. The reason I added it a while back was because he can be played early game for a bit of card draw. The card draw from this is not worth the mana spent, the fact that even with Unesh out he is 2 blue to cast also feels very bad. I will definitely replace him with another Sphinx, probably Argent Sphinx or Metallic Mimic. For 2 blue I am much happier to see the mana sink on Argent Sphinx. And for 2 colorless I am happy to see possibly the next cheapest sphinx not already in the deck. Enigma Thief though high CMC, I can reliably cast him for his prowl cost at 2 cmc, and his removal is top notch. Dream Eater though the removal is not the best, it is still good. The kicker here is honestly the surveil 4. You do Unesh FOF first, then surveil 4 and hopefully you can put all 4 in the graveyard. Still dream eater does feel a bit slower than everything else. Scholar of the Lost Trove, upfront I feel very strongly about this card. It's not because this is a pet card, it's because I think its very powerful in this deck. Even at 5cmc which is what I normally cast it for, it feels like insane value. You get the Unesh trigger, and a wincon from the graveyard that the opponents thought they didn't have to deal with anymore. After doing some math on this, the average cost of an Unesh trigger with Unesh on the field is ~2.25 cmc in the current revision (that is the cmc of a card generating the FOF divided by the total number of things generating FOFs excluding Rite). At 5 cmc, casting the Scholar gives you a 4 cmc game winning artifact and a ~2.25 cmc Unesh trigger. Not to mention, it gives you flexibility in choosing piles. For instance, If an opponent erroneously puts Panharmonicon in a pile by itself, you can shamelessly take the other 3 cards in that FOF. Palinchron is also rather expensive to set up, but not as expensive as Rite. I think it is a good back up win condition. If Rite doesn't resolve, or if Isochron w/ dramatic reversal doesn't resolve, we need at least one other way to combo off. With ways to tutor for High Tide this win condition has been online surprisingly often, and is definitely threatening. That said having this AND Rite feels too heavy mana wise. I think I am pretty much sold on Isoscepter because of how inexpensive it is. With recent mana rock additions as well as Mox Diamond and Grim Monolith (mentioned below) the wincon is online for far cheaper than Rite and effectively does the same job, also dramatic reversal can be used as a one time use now which makes it good on it's own.
Lands: After a day of listening to cEDH podcasts, this is what I came up with. Urza's Saga is nuts. After playtesting with these lands I felt a big power spike. Thank you for mentioning Mystic Sanctuary again. I didn't think about it being able to retrieve a wincon which is pretty relevant. I will consider slipping this one back in there. I also think that losing just one more Island wouldn't be very impactful. What do you think about Command Beacon? After playtesting, I think there is such a niche case when this card is good in cEDH. I think I prefer an Island here given the more recent revisions.
Enchantments: Agreed, all of these are great cards. Not much to change here.
Instants: I don't think there are any cuts to be made here. After playtesting I think I need to add more Instants to more reliably shut off early combo wins. Demonic Consultation and Ad Nauseum are rampant. Even fitting in a Dispel or Spell Pierce to the deck would go a long way.
Artifacts: Work needs to be done here. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Lightning Greaves feels bad because board interaction is light and stack interaction is high in cEDH. Caged Sun is usually too expensive to play without cheating it in with Scholar. But scholar wants to hit other game winning cards anyway, so Caged sun needs to go. Grim Monolith and Mox Diamond need to go in. I have been reluctant to add them to the list because I don't have paper copies. You are spot on with these two though. I am not high on Moonsilver Key, but I do like Wayfarer's Bauble. The bauble putting a land into play is important to getting palinchron online, and this also sees great synergy with Vantress Visions similar to the fetch lands. Though bauable is definitely worse than mox diamond and grim monolith, it would be my last cut. Mox Amber indeed doesn't power Unesh out, but we don't need it to. I will say that my playtests have really favored this card. Being able to play more mana artifacts after a FOF for free will keep the FOFs rolling. Mox Amber feels very good. Mox diamond is superior, but I won't take out Mox Amber for it.
REVISION: After synthesizing both our viewpoints, here is a revision that I will go ahead and push. I think you will like this mostly, but let me know your doubts.
- Replace Vexing Sphinx with Spell Pierce.
- Replace Lightning Greaves with Dramatic Reversal.
- Replace Caged Sun with Isochron Scepter.
- Replace Lorien Revealed with Muddle the Mixture. I am okay with an effective land cut here after playtesting.
- Replace Moonsilver Key with Mox Diamond.
- Replace Wayfarer's Bauble with Grim Monolith.
- Replace an Island with Mystic Sanctuary.
EXPLANAITION: This rev cuts the Rite wincon and adds the less expensive Isoscepter wincon. There is still backup wincon in Aetherflux. Isoscepter is backed up by Palinchron, and Aetherflux is supported by Palinchron. Obviously, the goal with infinite mana is to play Thassa's eventually. Dramatic Reversal is good enough on its own now because of the artifacts added recently. I honestly think this is the cheapest that the wincon package can be while still being robust enough to not fizzle out. With these wincons, Unesh doesn't have to be on the field, which makes the deck less reliant on him, mitigating one of the deck's biggest flaws. Cutting Lightning Greaves will likely be inconsequential due to low board state interaction. Muddle and Spell pierce add some more stack interaction while Muddle can find combo pieces. I went with Spell pierce over Dispel because it can hit stax pieces as well as stopping an early combo win. Cutting a sphinx now relies on Ghostly Flicker to be part of the 20%. Mystic Sanctuary and Scholar of the Lost Trove are used to retrieve wincons from the grave if necessary.
I heavily considered subbing Dream Eater for Argent Sphinx. I will need to playtest that change before committing to it.
1 week ago
Have you considered Emergence Zone, Crystal Vein, City of Traitors or Urza's Saga for your land base? A few Tutors and choice card draw pieces like Ring of Three Wishes, The One Ring, Planar Bridge, Planar Portal & Citanul Flute could help you quickly outvalue your opponents with your Commander's ability, as could Ramp pieces like Ashnod's Altar & Doubling Cube. Portal to Phyrexia & Grimoire of the Dead could potentially win some games here as well, depending on the pod!
1 week ago
Sol Ring might be a good alternative to Seething Song. If you play it before Confusion in the Ranks, you'll have +2 mana every turn. And if you play it after, it is a permanent you can exchange. Urza's Saga could help you get it, and can even make a token. Mirrex is a potential sub for Springjack Pasture. Also a single copy of Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance wouldn't hurt. Imperial Recruiter can fetch Norin the Wary. Not sure if you'd rather have Norrin than anything else.
1 week ago
BIG REVISION + SIDEBOARD
I will post this comment then make the changes as specified in the list.
I have been studying a lot of cEDH meta, and found a lot of cards that I haven’t been using that are really great in Unesh. After a lot of consideration I have decided to pull the trigger on this revision.
- Replace Mystic Sanctuary with Otawara, Soaring City. Mystic Sanctuary is used to retrieve interaction and put it on the top of your deck. This is anti-deck thinning which feels really bad in this deck. Instead, lets have the interaction printed on the land itself. What is great about Otawara is that this interaction is an ability, not a spell. So it can be used even while cards like Grand Abolisher are on the field. You can remove the abolisher and then interact with your opponent.
- Replace Extraplanar Lens with Urza's Saga. The lens feels clunky. Sure it combos with Palinchron, but this combo requires lands to be on the field. Sacrificing a land has anti synergy with this. If the lens gets removed, you are out the double mana AND a land. It feels bad too often which is why it is getting cut. There are still 5 other combo pieces in the deck that you WILL see. You can even tutor for High Tide if you have to. Urza’s Saga is one of the best lands in the format and it isn’t hard to see why. More deck thinning. If its in your opening hand you guarantee Unesh by turn 3. Moonsilver Key seems to perform really well, so keeping this in as redundancy for this effect will turn out well I think.
- Replace 2 Islands with Mox Opal and Mox Amber. This deck has a lot of lands in it for cEDH. Although Unesh doesn’t mind being mana flooded usually, the count is still a bit high especially after adding Urza’s Saga. Fast mana in these spots feels nice. They aren’t necessarily going to get Unesh on the table faster, BUT they can effectively make your Thassa's Oracle win con cheaper. While you are rolling through your deck after Rite of Replication resolves, you can pick up these pieces to gain mana to cast Thassa’s Oracle.
- Replace Island with Gemstone Caverns. I goldfished this change a lot and found that Unesh will almost always prefer this in your opening hand over an Island. It makes early Unesh more likely, which is the primary goal of this deck.
- Replaced Trickbind with Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep is too good in the format. There are a lot of awesome 1 cmc cards. Sol ring, carpet of flowers, swords to plowshares, mental misstep, other 1 cmc counters, mystic remora, and more. Trickbind is a great card against the right opponent(ie Kinnan), so for me this goes in the sideboard.
Sideboard revision 0
This is my first stab at a sideboard. So constructive criticism is very welcomed. The main goals of the sideboard is to change out the interaction package to fit the pod better, and to shift to more of a midrange strat than turbo if necessary.
- Trickbind. Great interaction with other ability centered decks.
- Grafdigger's Cage. Unesh can play this card without consequence pretty much, and it is an effective stax piece in the meta. This card might even weasel its way in to the main board.
- Tormod's Crypt. More graveyard hate, nothing else to explain here.
- Flusterstorm for a spell heavy pod.
- An Offer You Can't Refuse also for a spell heavy pod.
- Pongify for a more creature heavy pod.
- Lotus Petal for better odds to cast Unesh first, making the deck more turbo. I think this card is possibly better than 1 or more of the mox’s, but I will leave it in sideboard for now.
- Perplexing Chimera. If you need to grind in the midrange more this guy can be a great option. Combining him with Homeward Path can be a good combo to soft lock your opponents in the mid game while you get to the bottom of your deck.
- Homeward Path for the above card.
- Ledger Shredder for making the deck more midrange with another card draw engine, allowing you to more likely get the interaction you need.
3 weeks ago
After playing a few copies of Preordain for a while (really like the card) - I really like the idea of Candy Trail as an Urza's Saga target. I've never been fond of Expedition Map because it just feels like an over-priced land most of the time, although I do put it back in once in a while.
1 month ago
Also don't need to swap both Trail of Crumbs and Dispute for CoCo. Even without adding more creatures, math says 26 gives an 83% chance of hitting two, which is pretty dang good. Dropping either reduces the number of possible things to do on T2 (if we don't T1 Goose, at least), but that's not a huge deal. Trail is nice to be able to get the non-creatures I like so I'd want to keep it around, but it's hard for me to cut Dispute either since the treasure would help cast Company (and it itself can draw into Company where Trail can't).
Probably drop the Witch's Ovens for a creature-based outlet. Seer is the best one, but I like Varolz, the Scar-Striped because I have nostalgia for it and it supports the aggro side-plan plus leans into the same self-mill support Sam wants, but the creatures in the deck are all small when they're not on the field so it's not going to get big payoffs and is mostly just a mana sink. Yahenni, Undying Partisan is another option along the same lines, doesn't feed aggro as well but has haste and indestructible is slightly better than regeneration, and is a little easier to cast. Both are mainly in consideration because being legendary means Sam can get them back from the grave. Woe Strider is also a consideration as it comes with a chump blocker that also triggers Pippin, Chatterfang, and Rosie, and can revive itself repeatedly if you're not having a great game and need help stemming the bleeding until you can rebound.
So if I want to do the CoCo route, drop the Trails and Witch's Ovens, add CoCo and a creature-based sac outlet, and find room for some number of Sarinth Steelseeker and another Grist? Could trim a copy of Altar and Deadly Dispute. Having Cat without Oven makes me sad, but Oven is pretty lackluster, it only really does things with Cat and since the deck has a better plan than durdling with Oven now it should probably go away altogether.
I do need to make sure to keep enough food-makers in the deck. Oven is a cheap food engine that had some synergy even if its over power is low, so dropping it (and the Trails to a lesser extent) reduces that consistency. OTOH, Company is pretty good at finding the better food-makers (namely Sam and Pippin) anyways. A single copy of each of Merry, Warden of Isengard and Pippin, Warden of Isengard would be fun and help a bit with that, plus they synergize with the other side-plans of the deck. Rapacious Guest is good for this too. Tough Cookie might be the one that gets the slot, though. It's starting to get potentially crowded on 3-drops, and you can do worse on turn two than make two food, one of which is also a bear.
I could play Urza's Saga, keep a single Oven in, add copies of the on-color artifact lands (maaaybe the ETB-tapped indestructible dual ones?), a Springleaf Drum (fetching artifact lands doesn't take an extra card slot, but drawing Drum helps accelerate if you're also already making land drops), maybe a Pithing Needle/Executioner's Capsule/Portable Hole, Nihil Spellbomb, or Skrelv, Defector Mite. Gingerbrute to stay on-theme, be able to get a food instantly if you're really hurting and Oven won't do, and as just a great Rosie target (and it also keeps your creature density for Company up). Blade of the Bloodchief is a cute win-more way to support the aggro plan that is funny with Viscera Seer or Yahenni as the sac outlet of choice. I told myself I wouldn't play stupidly broken things in my casual 60-card decks, so Skullclamp should probably stay out. Sam being able to get back Saga seems good, and the Karnstruct will be a scary size. Colorless mana hurts in a three-color deck that plays so many colored one-drops though, especially since I'd probably want three copies. Monetarily it's even more expensive than Invasion, which is worth considering too. It does play into a lot of things the deck wants to do between the construct, fetching silver bullets, and being re-usable with Sam if we somehow get into the long game. Maybe just whatever copies (if any) I have that aren't currently in commander decks.
There's also the The Underworld Cookbook + Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar build which I feel like I should mention even if nobody else ever reads this, but that's a different deck and getting too close to Modern territory (even if it's not a great deck there, it does exist). I like my hobbits better.
2 months ago
so first of all you need an oathbreaker spell, i would recommend Thoughtcast. this is played as an artifact storm deck, running many 0cmc artifacts.(note do NOT run Chalice of the Void for 0cmc as it will stop you from casting the other artifacts)
assemble a loop, the most simple one is with Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain or Vedalken Archmage play a free artifact, draw a card for playing artifacts. but you can’t guarantee you will always draw a artifact so cards that let you scry are very useful Artificer's Assistant is a prime example, also cards like Teferi's Ageless Insight bolster the card draw.
in addition remember that as you cast an artifact Saheeli, Sublime Artificer gives you another servo token, and adds that care about artifact count love easy artifact tokens. aka thoughtcast.
so you play artifacts to draw cards and play more artifacts, now what? how does this deck win?
cards like Hedron Detonator & Reckless Fireweaver deal damage when an artifact enters, and each artifact enters the battlefield with an additional token, so for playing a free artifact you can do 4 damage. good rate if you ask me. however if you have an opponent with prot. red dmg might be a hard time, however BrainFreeze is the perfect alt win con, allowing you to mill 3 cards, with storm.
storm cards are a good starting point but sometimes you’ll get to 15-20 and can’t quit finish them off, cards like Recall bring all artifact back to your had (sadly the tokens too) but allows you to play all the 0cmc artifacts again, doubling the storm count, pushing it well over 30 if done correctly
wrap up: i would say Spellbook is an auto include because you are filling up your hand so much. additionally if you are confident in your draw engine you can put Thassa's Oracle and have a second alt win con. alsoUrza's Saga is an a round amazing card in this deck rewarding a high artifact count.
finaly sometimes you just need a classic beatsick, beefed up monster shoot for ones with -keyword: improvise- like Kappa Cannoneer
if you have any more questions please ask :) happy to spread knowledge and love of mtg
heres my list, feel free to tweak it however : https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/100-budget-izzit-0s/
2 months ago
you currently have no form of interaction with your opponent, which’ll mean you automatically lose to any deck faster than you, as well as any combo deck. I would really strongly suggest having ways to mess with the opponent - because rest-assured they will for you.
all the equipment cards you’ve got are normally only practical/usable in decks running either Urza's Saga or Stoneforge Mystic to fetch them up for free. Without a way to freely fetch them, I don’t see a reason to run them. Added to this, Sword of Fire and Ice is the only actually good equipment here (Shadowspear is only useful alongside an artifact heavy deck, Basilisk Collar is only ever good with Walking Ballista, the rest are terrible in all situations).